Gym thread - Bodybuilding Vs Military style Circuit Training

[KingRichard]

Following on from some comments on the other gym thread that's running (I didn't want to hijack it as the guy is getting some good advice), I thought I'd start a thread about different training types and their benefits / drawbacks.

I had always been a fan of the bodybuilding workout routines (never seriously, just preferred the style of working out). Ie: Body part splits, concentrating largely on isolating muscle groups and training each bodypart once a week.

I used to mix in a couple of cardio sessions during the week too. Now, I was always pretty pleased with the results, but because I never wanted the bulky look, as my fitness improved I would increase the reps rather than the weight and I'd end up doing 2 hour gym sessions and then get bored of it all after 4/5 weeks and go on a beer and pizza binge

Basically, I would like to spend the next few months getting back into shape. Not only aesthetically, but I'd really like to bring my physical strength and endurance right up. Basically become a double hard bd (I'd quite like to get a couple of long term goals - wouldn't mind trying a marathon for example... there's no way I could do that right now!).

I've been searching the web for military fitness routines to try and get some ideas from. They all seem to concentrate entirely on running, swimming and bodyweight exercises. I mean, is that really enough?

Is anyone here ex military (SAS? <-That would rock!) and has experience with this kind of stuff?

The good news is, my body seems to adapt really quickly, which is also a curse because as soon as I slip into bad habits, all the good work is undone

I can post up an example of the Navy SEAL training regime that I found if anyone wants to cast an eye.

Ta

[ewenm]

The running/swimming/cycling are what give you the aerobic (heart and lungs) fitness and the endurance. Given a lot of military work can be yomping miles with heavy packs, I'm not at all surprised they concentrate on that.

The reason they'll do mainly bodyweight exercises is because it can be hard to find a gym in the middle of a warzone.

If a 100% aerobic event like a marathon is really a goal, you don't need to do any heavy weights at all. The only weights marathon runners do are to improve core stability and strength. I used to do a 40min circuit session that was a mix of body weight exercises and exercises with 5kg dumbbells in each hand, aimed at improving core muscle control, not strength.

[KingRichard]

I wouldn't say it's the only goal, but it is something to work towards. I enjoy chucking weights around

[roboxm3]

We seem to have very similar tendancies when it comes to training. Like yourself I have always trained with weights for aesthetics but at the same time like to keep a good level of aerobic fitness so will end up spending 2 hours in the gym each session to work on both.

After a few months I will suffer from a massive lack of motivation and eat st for a few weeks before starting the whole cycle again.

In reality I really don't think you can maintain a good level of fitness and muscle mass without spending half of your life in the gym. Classes like Body-Pump seem like quite a good balance but i think you'd soon get bored of doing that 3/4 times a week.

The only other option would be to have a very varied routine including weights and cardio but then just coming up with new routines for each week becomes a chore.

In summary I have absolutely no practical solution to your problem, nor do I have any experience of any military style training but should someone on here have some information I'd be as keen as you are to know!

[KingRichard]

Thanks

Good to know I'm not in the same boat though!

[clonmult]

KingRichard said:

I wouldn't say it's the only goal, but it is something to work towards. I enjoy chucking weights around

I used to have aims of getting towards doing a marathon, I may still try, but not in a big way. Get a lot more enjoyment of adding a few extra kilos onto the bar, or finally being able to get a stack moved on one of the machines.

And related to that - why the hell are the calibrations on the machines down the gym so wrong?

I could do about 130kilos on a real bench press, but the equivalent machine down the gym I'm having to stop at what it claims is 90kg?

The cage machines they've got down the local fitness first are great for doing lat pull downs (I think thats the description?), and with my bodyweight at around 95kg, I would have thought that if they were accurate, my putting around 100kg on them would have meant that the weights wouldn't move, I'd be doing pull ups .... but it doesn't seem to work like that.

[Sheets Tabuer]

It wasn't all running, well it was but there was a lot more circuit training. I don't mean at your own pace circuit training either I mean being screamed at circuit training.

We'd look forward to a five mile run after that as it was a bit of a rest.

[okgo]

I had been speaking to a guy who goes to my gym.. he is huge, like 6.5 and a big guy but not silly big. probaby 17/18 stone and has 20 inch arms ect.

Now he was in the army, and juding from his tattoos he was a green beret.

He was saying that the bigger guys like him had a hard time lugging the stuff about so the training would concentrate on you being trimmed down and able to run and run. He said he was still very toned but not bulky. As in the real world it was deemed mroe important to have the endurance.

Now he has left (and is a private bodygaurd = very hard) he hits the gym for proper weight sessions.

And he said that he has the bulk now that he could never of got in the army, due to the constant burning of energy that was not their (eating into muscle) from the runs and circuits they did.

Edited by okgo on Wednesday 11th June 15:28

Edited by okgo on Wednesday 11th June 15:29

[Dale19]

R.E Free weight to machine strenght, i bet thats because of the plane of movement.

When i bench, start above my eyes, down to just below me nips, then back in line with the eyes at the top, most are like this, its quite an arch, machines with the fixed plane isnt your "groove".

Still, 130 - 90 is a big difference, is the 130 paused?

[Dale19]

KR - what do you want, are you trying to work out whether to ditch the weights, and focus on circuits?

Or are you wanting to know how to get the best of both worlds? Have the bulk with good cardio ability?

Edited by Dale19 on Wednesday 11th June 15:37

[Yugguy]

Simplistically you need both. Circuits will give you stamina, weights will give you strength.

Personally I find being aerobically fit helps me with my weight training as my body is efficient at getting blood and oxygen to my muscles.

[emicen]

Post up the navy seal regime, I'd be interested to see it

I tend to do interval training and supersets with occasional long CV sessions.

Boredom, sense of wasted time and utter hatred of running are my main enemies when it comes to long CV sessions so really have to be in the mood.

[Welshbeef]

Best exercise is Burpees.

Stand - squat - kick out to pressup - one pressup - squat - star jump, repeat 20 times... now do that every day and weight dropps off & if thats too easy try 50 a day!

[Northants155boy]

One for the OP, if you can try and get in contact with one of the fitness guys at your local top end rugby club (league or Union doesn't matter and I'm talking 1st divison or higher).

IMHO I think rugby offers a perfect blend between explosive muscle strength and stamina, when you see some of these guys from the clubs they are huge yet can run around a rugby pitch all day tackling, rucking mauling scrummaging etc.
Find out what they do in terms of weight training and aerobic fitness.

Generally though as has already been said a high body mass is not great for competitive long distance running, but that doesn't mean big guys can't run long distances their just not very quick. All endurance athletes have that very lean, cut look to them without the mass, (which also doesn't mean they can't lift weights).

[ewenm]

Welshbeef said:

Best exercise is Burpees.

Stand - squat - kick out to pressup - one pressup - squat - star jump, repeat 20 times... now do that every day and weight dropps off & if thats too easy try 50 a day!

I saw you post that on the other thread. What sport is that training for when you say it is the best exercise? Or is it just weight loss itself that's the target result? I can see how it may be a good anaerobic starting point but at some point I'd have thought you'll need to do more event-spcific work.

[KingRichard]

emicen said:

Post up the navy seal regime, I'd be interested to see it

Ok, here it is: Found via google http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/brent2.htm

Navy Seals said:

This program is about a nine week long program. During this program, you should notice that your endurance will sore to heights never imagined. However, like Navy SEAL training, this program will break you - only the mentally strong will survive and a new, strengthened man will emerge.

First 9 Weeks:

Week 1

Running: 2 miles, 8:30 pace, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pushups: 4 sets of 15 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 4 sets of 20 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 3 sets of 3 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 15 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Week 1.

Week 2

Running: 2 miles, 8:30 pace, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pushups: 5 sets of 20 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 5 sets of 20 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 3 sets of 3 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 15 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Week 2.

Week 3

Running: No running
Pushups: 5 sets of 25 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 5 sets of 25 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 3 sets of 4 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 20 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Week 3.

Week 4

Running: 3 miles, 8:30 pace, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pushups: 5 sets of 25 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 5 sets of 25 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 3 sets of 4 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 20 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Week 4.

Weeks 5-6

Running: 2 / 3 / 4 / 2 miles, Mo/Tu/We/Fr
Pushups: 6 sets of 25 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 6 sets of 25 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 2 sets of 8 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 25 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Weeks 5-6.

Weeks 7-8

Running: 4 / 4 / 5 / 3 miles, Mo/Tu/We/Fr
Pushups: 6 sets of 30 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 6 sets of 30 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 2 sets of 10 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 30 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Weeks 7-8.

Week 9

Running: 4 / 4 / 5 / 3 miles, Mo/Tu/We/Fr
Pushups: 6 sets of 30 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 6 sets of 30 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 3 sets of 10 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 35 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Week 9.

Second 9 weeks:
Week 1 & 2

Running: 3 / 5 / 4 / 5 / 2 miles, Mo/Tu/We/Fr/Sa
Pushups: 6 sets of 30 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 6 sets of 35 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 3 sets of 10 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Dips: 3 sets of 20 dips, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 35 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Weeks 1-2.

Weeks 3-4

Running: 4 / 5 / 6 / 4 / 3 miles, Mo/Tu/We/Fr/Sa
Pushups: 10 sets of 20 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 10 sets of 25 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 4 sets of 10 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Dips: 10 sets of 15 dips, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 45 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Weeks 3-4.

Week 5

Running: 5 / 5 / 6 / 4 / 4 miles, Mo/Tu/We/Fr/Sa
Pushups: 15 sets of 20 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 15 sets of 25 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 4 sets of 12 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Dips: 15 sets of 15 dips, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 60 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Week 5.

Week 6 & Beyond

Running: 5 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 4 miles, Mo/Tu/We/Fr/Sa
Pushups: 20 sets of 20 pushups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Situps: 20 sets of 25 situps, Mon/Wed/Fri
Pullups: 5 sets of 12 pullups, Mon/Wed/Fri
Dips: 20 sets of 15 dips, Mon/Wed/Fri
Swimming: Swim continuously for 75 min. 4-5 days/week
Click Here For A Printable Log Of Week 6 & Beyond.

emicen then said:

Boredom, sense of wasted time and utter hatred of running are my main enemies when it comes to long CV sessions so really have to be in the mood.

I hate running with a passion until I can do it again. That initial few weeks is a killer!

Edited because I pasted the WRONG article

Edited by KingRichard on Wednesday 11th June 16:12

[andy400]

roboxm3 said:

weights for aesthetics

Are you the guys I see at the gym who lift weights slowly, wearing tiny vest tops, whilst gazing longingly at themselves in the oversized mirrors? Nice

[Yugguy]

Aye, us heavier people can still run the length, just not with the speed of the lighter guys.

And burpees are the exercise of the Devil!!!

[Welshbeef]

ewenm said:

Welshbeef said:

Best exercise is Burpees.

Stand - squat - kick out to pressup - one pressup - squat - star jump, repeat 20 times... now do that every day and weight dropps off & if thats too easy try 50 a day!

I saw you post that on the other thread. What sport is that training for when you say it is the best exercise? Or is it just weight loss itself that's the target result? I can see how it may be a good anaerobic starting point but at some point I'd have thought you'll need to do more event-spcific work.

Its purely a fitness / endurance exercise, you will get fit and yuou will lose weight/not so brethless at the top of the stairs anymore or sweating heavily in realtively cool conditions to constant sweating in the hot summer.

[clonmult]

Dale19 said:

R.E Free weight to machine strenght, i bet thats because of the plane of movement.

When i bench, start above my eyes, down to just below me nips, then back in line with the eyes at the top, most are like this, its quite an arch, machines with the fixed plane isnt your "groove".

Still, 130 - 90 is a big difference, is the 130 paused?

Paused? Unsure, this was back at a fitness first in London, haven't been there for about 6 months.

130 kilos, started with the bar above my eyes, shunted it up and worked it down fairly close to the shoulders/chest, then back up. Tried to get a similar "starting" position with the machines - handles roughly starting from around the chest.