French speeding tickets being sent UK licence holders

[Vintage Racer]

Amen to that................it's been like a couple of bald men arguing over a comb!

[bad company]

lowdrag said:

Christ almighty. Are you so thick that you are opaque? The point is that IT IS THE OWNER OF THE CAR WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FINE, NO MATTER WHO WAS AT THE WHEEL.

Are you too thick to understand that the French may have a problem enforcing their laws outside of France? None of you Frenchies have answered this. You just keep going on about French laws.

According to you ‘EU member state to pursue a UK registered vehicle’ . How do they prosecute a vehicle?

At least you’ve quoted some of the EU laws our Frogie friends rely on. Nobody else had bothered or understood.

Thank God we’re (hopefully) leaving the EU.

Edited by bad company on Friday 20th September 22:38

Edited by bad company on Friday 20th September 23:01

Edited by bad company on Friday 20th September 23:22

[smifffymoto]

Simple,they contact the DVLA,they then give the French the name of the registered keeper on the V5.The French then pursue that person.

[bad company]

smifffymoto said:

Simple,they contact the DVLA,they then give the French the name of the registered keeper on the V5.The French then pursue that person.

You’ve either not read or not understood the thread.

[Wombat3]

lowdrag said:

Christ almighty. Are you so thick that you are opaque? The point is that IT IS THE OWNER OF THE CAR WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FINE, NO MATTER WHO WAS AT THE WHEEL. You are responsible because your thoughtlessness in allowing someone else to drive your car abroad brought about the fine, therefore you are liable. Whether you wish to pursue the matter, as the injured party, against you wife is your problem. And with the new law apparently coming into force you might well be forced to do so or else, despite you not being on this planet (at least mentally it seems) you'll get a nice bunch of points on your licence. I suggest you quit this insane quibble and look at the case law. Perhaps this might stop your insane arguing:-

From 06 May 2017 the Cross-Border Enforcement Directive (CBED) allows an EU member state to pursue a UK registered vehicle involved in traffic offences in their country.

This includes not just speeding but drink and drug driving, running red lights and lane contraventions.

It also covers any applicable local laws relating to mobile phone offences and not wearing a helmet. Drivers can be prosecuted for not wearing a seat belt, too.

If you commit an offence and a fine is issued, the CBED also allows the country to pursue you through the UK legal system.

You will note that it is the registered owner of the vehicle who will be prosecuted, because by default you are the only person they can prosecute. It is then up to you to pursue your case and point the figure at Mrs BC who was at the wheel - should you wish to. Perhaps she was pissed and smoking a joint. I don't know nor have any wish to know. She is your problem

The system is no different to what we do here except you can deal with it on line. I've had loads of these through the post this year (because I have a rental business). They send the thing out to the registered keeper & there is the facility to go on line & either pay the fine or delegate the thing to whoever was driving. I've done this (delegated) numerous times in the last 9 months and heard nothing further on any of them.

http://www.antai.fr refers....

Now the Italians.....another story! Got a ticket through at the beginning of July for an offence in July last year. Their appeal process is not so easy either. The Dutch took a month to send one. very efficient. Sent the form in & got a letter back saying it was all done as far as we were concerned.

Also had a discussion with a met officer about this. His view was they have no jurisdiction so they can't make you pay it. However, if you go back over there in the same vehicle then obviously things can get interesting.

Edited by Wombat3 on Saturday 21st September 00:06

[bad company]

Wombat3 said:

Also had a discussion with a met officer about this. His view was they have no jurisdiction so they can't make you pay it. However, if you go back over there in the same vehicle then obviously things can get interesting.

Or if you rent your vehicle to another customer who takes it back to France.

Edited by bad company on Saturday 21st September 08:38

[Rushjob]

If you drive, or allow your vehicle to be driven in France, you abide by the law of that land.

The law in France is such that the owner / keeper is the first point of contact for the payment of fines relating to use of that vehicle. You have the choice of nominating the driver if it wasn't you.

If you don't want to be subject to these laws, don't drive or allow your vehicle to be driven in France.

[bad company]

Rushjob said:

If you drive, or allow your vehicle to be driven in France, you abide by the law of that land.

The law in France is such that the owner / keeper is the first point of contact for the payment of fines relating to use of that vehicle. You have the choice of nominating the driver if it wasn't you.

If you don't want to be subject to these laws, don't drive or allow your vehicle to be driven in France.

Do they indoctrinate you guys living in France to believe that the country can enforce it’s laws all over the world? Sounds that way.

Anyway if anyone can point to a LEGAL argument to show I’m wrong please pm me. Otherwise this is going round in circles and I’m out.

Edited by bad company on Saturday 21st September 13:54

[E34-3.2]

bad company said:

Do they indoctrinate you guys living in France to believe that the country can enforce it’s laws all over the world? Sounds that way.

Anyway if anyone can point to a LEGAL argument to show I’m wrong please pm me. Otherwise this is going round in circles and I’m out.

Edited by bad company on Saturday 21st September 13:54

Might help you: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/wha...

[Fatt McMissile]

The EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive. The clue to the legality is in the name.

Of course this will cease after the thing that we dare not mention happens. But. If you see the number £39billion and 45 euros, we will all nod wisely and understand how that came about.

[magooagain]

bad company said:

Or if you rent your vehicle to another customer who takes it back to France.

Edited by bad company on Saturday 21st September 08:38

Well no. The person renting the car,if stopped,will be able to prove its a rental car.

[E34-3.2]

magooagain said:

Well no. The person renting the car,if stopped,will be able to prove its a rental car.

Indeed, rental is OK. A British driver went to France with his own car and end up doing one night in jail and a heavy fine from what I remember. His brother didn't told him that a few years back he ignored a fine he received from the French authorities for speeding while driving his brother's car.

[Wombat3]

bad company said:

Wombat3 said:

Also had a discussion with a met officer about this. His view was they have no jurisdiction so they can't make you pay it. However, if you go back over there in the same vehicle then obviously things can get interesting.

Or if you rent your vehicle to another customer who takes it back to France.

Edited by bad company on Saturday 21st September 08:38

Which is why we clear them off our vehicles & delegate the thing to the driver (hence my familiarity with that web site!)

[Gc285]

I have long since resigned myself to the cameras and subsequent fines as being additional toll stations. It certainly costs more in tolls when I travel than the fines I receive...generally 2 each time. It does get on your nerves when the fines are for 2-3ks over the limit and especially after a long 15hr haul with it on cruise at 120-130k, you hit an 80k that you just didnt see because there is a bit of a corner.

Potential future for points on uk licence worries me.

My son ignored his extra tolls in 2018, got the 2nd recorded delivery letter earlier this year and we refused to sign for it. He has heard nothing yet but you never know. Incidentally he paid another visit with same no plate this year , I advised not to, and inspite of my cajoling,he did not end up in jail and the car has not been crushed yet. Still waiting on this though.

[irocfan]

this thread puzzles me to a degree. As long as I've been on PH we complain that foreign drivers aren't prosecuted for speeding/toll roads and yet we're now complaining that we can't do the same across there? Surely the issue is one of reciprocity - if we (ie UK Gov't) doesn't do the same it's hardly the fault of the French and should be something that we sh/could protest to our respective MP's about. I'll agree that 2 or 3 kph does seem somewhat (!!!) tight but (and I can't believe I'm about to say this) don't speed - or at least if you do treat it like a speeding fine in the UK surely?

[lowdrag]

Can we settle this argument for once and for all? Do we know anyone who has been pursued by court action for non-payment of a fine originating in France? I am advised here that they do so, but the experience of this thread is no, they haven't.

[Wombat3]

lowdrag said:

Can we settle this argument for once and for all? Do we know anyone who has been pursued by court action for non-payment of a fine originating in France? I am advised here that they do so, but the experience of this thread is no, they haven't.

I've had a second notice through from a French ticket that I apparently didn't appeal (even though I thought I had). I have now lodged the appeal (designation to the rider) so will see what happens!

[RichieRuss1]

A friends company received what looked like one of these speeding letters as there was a picture of one of their cars in it but it was in French so he nor anyone in his company couldn't understand or translate any of it.

I'm sure that they would have paid it if it was in English? Why would they send it in French? Seems bizzare as very few people can read French in England.

Edited by RichieRuss1 on Thursday 21st November 12:50

[rdjohn]

RichieRuss1 said:

A friends company received what looked like one of these speeding letters as there was a picture of one of their cars in it but it was in French so he nor anyone in his company couldn't understand or translate any of it.

I'm sure that they would have paid it if it was in English? Why would they send it in French? Seems bizzare as very few people can read French in England.

Edited by RichieRuss1 on Thursday 21st November 12:50

I think that someone has slipped up there - the letter should be in English.

Extract from the FAQs on the directive.

Upon deciding whether to follow-up on the traffic offence in question, the authorities in the Member State of offence send an information letter to the owner of the registration certificate. This information letter has to be written in the same language as the registration certificate in the Member State of registration and it must include relevant information about the traffic offence – the nature of the offence, the date and time of detection, the article of the relevant piece of legislation infringed – and the legal consequences of the offence.

[Beggarall]

I have been motoring through France for many years but it seems to me that there is much more speed enforcement than there used to be - more cameras, hidden cameras, mobile traps, average speed sections to mention a few. Also the cross border directive has meant that the UK motorist is much more likely to get a ticket if they accidentally set off one of those devices. In the past month I have had two - the adjusted speed being 92 and 91kph in a 90 zone. Paying on line is easy - but what happens about points ? Do they create a "ghost licence" in the name of the Registered Keeper? What happens if you amass a lot of points (more than 12)? There is also the question about whether to nominate another driver (if they were driving). To do this you need to complete the form which asks for Birth name, Spouse (?) but also the Driving Licence number whereas if the fine is paid in the name of the Reg Keeper none of those details are requested. In the most recent offence I paid the fine although my wife was driving - was this the right thing to do I wonder? Perhaps someone with experience of these matters could comment. Thanks