I want a Busso-engined Alfa - but which one?

I want a Busso-engined Alfa - but which one?

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Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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I'm aware of how incredibly superficial this sounds, but I've always wanted an Alfa with the Busso V6 and I'm pretty open minded on the exact model.

I started seriously contemplating GTVs at the beginning of the year. That was abruptly curtailed when buying a house took priority. My finances are still a bit complicated as a result - I don't actually know what my budget will be until we've completed the move later this month, but my guess is I could afford a half decent 156/166 V6 now or a hang on for a GTV V6 or GT at the end of the year. There's also the wildcard option of abandoning the V6 obsession and considering a GTV Twin Spark.

So, what would you recommend?

I work primarily from home, so mpg isn't massively critical. However, the car will be my primary means of transport, so it's got to start in the morning, operate in all weathers and leave me reasonably fresh at the end of a long motorway journey. The latter is a relative term, admittedly. My last daily driver was a Mk1 MX-5.

In terms of practicality, I could get by with a GTV. My wife's car currently serves for family duties and the added practicality of the saloons would be redundant unless they come with ISOFIX (which I don't believe they do?) That said, while I prefer the looks of the coupes, it did occur to me that the saloons might be better for my long motorway trips.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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I'm in a similar position; I want a Busso Alfa too. I currently own a V6 Alfa but it's not the Busso, so I'd like to see how the two compare.

I've narrowed it down to the GT or 147 GTA as they offers a modicum more practicality (I've got a rapidly growing 5 year old to accommodate) plus I love the looks.

The sensible option would be the 1.8TBi engine (not sure they did these in the GT) or 2.0 Twin Spark as they aren't as nose heavy. Let me know how you get on.

Amateurish

7,697 posts

221 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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164/166 would be suitable. Good for long journeys, low prices and very practical. That said, I've had a 164 and a GTV with the 3.0 V6 and neither were reliable.

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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Id get a 156 if you can find a decent one, comfortable and stylish, but lightfooted and agile compared to the 16x series

A 155 will just be more oldfashioned, and less powerful, a GTV is apparently significantly more expensive to maintain, and the turbo v6 is somewhat particular in terms of upkeep as well.

Nigel_O

2,858 posts

218 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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GT every time

far more practical than it has any right to be, looks better than the non-GTA versions of the 156 and 147 and hasn't yet fallen into the realms of silly-money (although prices for the best ones are climbing)

Its absolutely essential that you inspect underneath though - the 147/156/GT series can suffer from terminally rusty floorpans

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Monday 7th August 2017
quotequote all
Nigel_O said:
GT every time
Derp, how did i forget about the GT

They will be more expensive then a 156 though, by a good bit, i think money wise there wont be much between a GTV and a GT

Chris71

Original Poster:

21,535 posts

241 months

Monday 7th August 2017
quotequote all
Vitorio said:
Derp, how did i forget about the GT

They will be more expensive then a 156 though, by a good bit, i think money wise there wont be much between a GTV and a GT
That's the thing with the GT. Considering they're newer cars with more power, they do appear to be better value than the GTV, but they are still quite a lot more money.

I almost overlooked them initially thinking they'd be out of budget, then realised there are some around for GTV money, but they tend to be high mileage (understandably). I also don't specifically need the extra room (although I gather the GT [i]does[/i[ have ISOFIX which would be handy).

It all comes down to budget, I guess. I had hoped to have sold my other car by this point, which would have given me the funds for a nice GTV V6. As it is, I've still got the TVR, which is busy running up a huge bill, on top of the house move. Soooo... realistically I'm probably looking at 156 V6 or Twin Spark GTV money at the moment. My thinking is to maybe run one of those as a stop gap then decide whether to upgrade later on. In which case: Which is better and which is more likely to hold its money for six months?

The more I look at the GT ads, the more confused I get. There seem to be some JTSs and JTDMs at sub-GTV money and some for well over what you'd pay for a good GTV V6.

ETA: It's more than I'd look to pay for a Twin Spark, but would you just look at this colour combination: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...


Edited by Chris71 on Monday 7th August 16:27

davebem

746 posts

176 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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Its actually a difficult decision, but Id go for a 2.5 V6 156 if you can find one. Not as much power or torque as a 3.2 GT but you can pick them up for 1/5th of the price and the 2.5 has a different character all to its own (it revs higher and sounds nicer in standard form). A twinny GTV would be nice but youll always wish it was a V6 if your not fussed with economy.

robbo 2006

107 posts

171 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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It all depends on budget. Much as I hear the twin spark is a great engine, whilst you can pick up a Busso for low budget I would. I would not through anything less at GTs than +7K now. You'll be spending more in the end on the project. A 2.5 156 would be where you'll still find a bargain. I have 3.2 GT and love it. These are climbing in value for good ones and you'll find it difficult to find good V6 147s under £10k.

robbo 2006

107 posts

171 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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It all depends on budget. Much as I hear the twin spark is a great engine, whilst you can pick up a Busso for low budget I would. I would not through anything less at GTs than +7K now. You'll be spending more in the end on the project. A 2.5 156 would be where you'll still find a bargain. I have 3.2 GT and love it. These are climbing in value for good ones and you'll find it difficult to find good V6 147s under £10k.

Nigel_O

2,858 posts

218 months

Monday 7th August 2017
quotequote all
Chris71 said:
The more I look at the GT ads, the more confused I get. There seem to be some JTSs and JTDMs at sub-GTV money and some for well over what you'd pay for a good GTV V6.
The bottom end of the GT market is still banger territory. You can pick them up from £1,500. My own diesel Blackline is probably worth even less on the open market - there's nothing wrong with it at all, but its done 230,000 miles, so nobody in their right mind is ever going to buy it. I'll run it until it expires, which may be some time yet....

The JTS is not a popular engine. It has about 15bhp more than the diesel, but only about 2/3 of the torque, meaning is has to be revved. After an inexpensive remap, the diesel is a much more entertaining drive than the petrols. There's also the ancient 1.8 twin-spark lump which has even less power, but still retains a little bit of the twin-spark character (as well as its famed appetite for oil...)

The 3.2V6 is the one to have - it is an absolutely epic engine - the very last of the Busso lumps (the last car ever to receive a Busso was a GT).

For me, the biggest draw of the GT is that it feels like a modern car, whereas the GTV feels like an old Alfa. The ergonomics, build quality and just the general feel of the GTV is just how you'd expect a 20 year old Alfa to be. The GT is in a different league.

Sadly, I know I'll never have a V6 - a GT diesel on the drive, a modified Fiat Coupe 20VT in the garage and an insatiable itch for a Westfield means that 'er indoors would never entertain the idea, but I'll always regard it as a missed opportunity.

If you don't get one in the next couple of years, the price may mean you'll never have one. I foresee £10k+ being the norm for a well-sorted V6

psi310398

9,036 posts

202 months

Monday 7th August 2017
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FWIW, I do not regret for a minute buying a 156 GTA. Mine has the Selespeed gearbox. It was not cheap but it is in very good nick.

Fuel economy is non-existent (at least the way I drive it) but I find I go miles out of my way to find tunnels, to fling it through twisting country lanes and to blat up and down hills.

Peter

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
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Nigel_O said:
The JTS is not a popular engine. It has about 15bhp more than the diesel, but only about 2/3 of the torque, meaning is has to be revved. After an inexpensive remap, the diesel is a much more entertaining drive than the petrols. There's also the ancient 1.8 twin-spark lump which has even less power, but still retains a little bit of the twin-spark character (as well as its famed appetite for oil...)

The 3.2V6 is the one to have - it is an absolutely epic engine - the very last of the Busso lumps (the last car ever to receive a Busso was a GT).

For me, the biggest draw of the GT is that it feels like a modern car, whereas the GTV feels like an old Alfa. The ergonomics, build quality and just the general feel of the GTV is just how you'd expect a 20 year old Alfa to be. The GT is in a different league.
The JTS also had some issues with almost all cars being down on power, as someone wanting to get a GT at some point (though ill probably run my 147 till it dies, its worth jack all as it is), id pick a 1.8TS over a JTS, even if its a tad slower.

And yeah, the GT is pretty much a 147 from the drivers seat perspective, and the 147 is a modern feeling car, my phase I 147 is getting old, but bluetooth/touchscreen gadgetry aside, there is very little to set it apart from a new car, to me at least.

Chris Type R

8,018 posts

248 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
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Having owned both GTV and GT V6s, I'd go for the latter (or a 156) given your requirement to be fresh after a motorway trip. The seats in the GTV are pretty, but not too comfortable. Also, if going for the V6 I'd recommend a 6 speed box - my GTV had 5.


Mighty Flex

900 posts

170 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
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Cheapest way to a Busso these days is a 166. Better made than the other options. Chassis is fine, especially with choice mods, but steering is more "german" (light and not as quick). Due to the prices, most are not in tip top shape though.

I'd look for a 3.2gt or 156 sportwagon GTA if i was after the best of the last V6s and aim for the best you can find.

Chris Type R

8,018 posts

248 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
quotequote all
The GT is also a bit of a Tardis in terms of load lugging - I can get 5 bins in the boot (with the seats down) and look good driving to the dump:



Previous owner capturing the V6 engine sound (stock) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qzf_1Cz_Hg

jamies30

5,910 posts

228 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
quotequote all
This is true:
Vitorio said:
And yeah, the GT is pretty much a 147 from the drivers seat perspective
...so this (to me) is a drawback not a draw:
Nigel_O said:
For me, the biggest draw of the GT is that it feels like a modern car, whereas the GTV feels like an old Alfa.
The only reason to buy an old Alfa is because it feels like an old Alfa. I'm not knocking the 147 at all, I enjoyed the two we had, but if you're after an Italian coupe then you want it to feel a bit more special than the all-but-identical hatchback / saloon / estate variant.


Mighty Flex said:
Cheapest way to a Busso these days is a 166. Better made than the other options.
yes

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
quotequote all
jamies30 said:
This is true:
Vitorio said:
And yeah, the GT is pretty much a 147 from the drivers seat perspective
...so this (to me) is a drawback not a draw:
Nigel_O said:
For me, the biggest draw of the GT is that it feels like a modern car, whereas the GTV feels like an old Alfa.
The only reason to buy an old Alfa is because it feels like an old Alfa. I'm not knocking the 147 at all, I enjoyed the two we had, but if you're after an Italian coupe then you want it to feel a bit more special than the all-but-identical hatchback / saloon / estate variant.
:
Oh i get that, im looking at this from my own perspective of it having to be the main mode of transport, and also transport my two kids, safety/practicality wise, a GTV just isnt an option, even if it does indeed have something special about it, that the GT lacks, being part 147

That said, compared to all the boring german metal on the roads, my 147 still has something special to me, even if its just a slow 1.6 hatchback

rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
quotequote all
Ah, a topic on which I have content knowledge. I have 4 Bussos in the fleet, 5 if you count the project car.

155 V6 - 2.5 - pretty rare these days. The 12v motor is a characterful beast, and to be honest it is the one that sees the far side of 5000 rpm most often. Mostly killed by neglect and rust these days, I'd be quite happy to use mine as a daily driver. It's not that fast, but it is a lot of fun. And it has a sunroof. Parts are getting a bit difficult for some bits.

156 V6 - 2.5 - still quite common, all the bargain ones are shagged out in the suspension department. Engines are generally tough, as long as they have oil and belt changes they will be fine. Rev happy, sounds brilliant with a Wizard exhaust, perfectly good as a daily. Watch underside corrosion. If you are remotely competent with spanners, buy one for £1000, and spend £2000 on suspension parts/upgrades and you'll have an absolute hoot.

GT 3.2 - quite a few about for not a lot of cash, but more than the 2.5s. Same suspension issues apply. Engine is not as rev happy, but once you get it up there, it is awesome. Sadly the chances to really use it are limited - 100 on a slip road is easy, then you knock it into 6th and all the noise goes away. Very practical - you can get a fridge in the back. Body part interchangeability with cooking GTs makes for cheap motoring - and there's nothing that rots or falls off. Good daily, but thirsty. I've spent £300 in a week on petrol....it was a very long commute, if I'd done it for more than a few weeks, I'd have ended up in prison.

GTA 3.2 - getting rare and expensive. I've got a Sportwagon. Mechanically identical to the GT, it's the body and parts availability that makes a difference. Bust the bumper - £1000. Bust (or rot) the metal inserts in the bumper - £100 a side. Wheel arch liners - can't get them. Interior - unique. Headlights - unique. 3.2 ECUs - not available (same applies to the GT). Perfectly good daily.

So, which one?

If you want a keeper, get a 3.2. It will be worth whatever you spend on it, and if you plan on keeping it for 10 years, you'll probably turn a profit.

If you want some Busso fun, get a 2.5 156, chuck some money at it, get a Wizard exhaust and enjoy.

Alternatives:

147 GTA - as GT, but with the cost of the 156 GTA.

166 - if you want a barge, they are fine, but parts are becoming challenging, and unless you do long distance daily, I don't really see the point.

Chris Type R

8,018 posts

248 months

Tuesday 8th August 2017
quotequote all
rxe said:
3.2 ECUs - not available (same applies to the GT). Perfectly good daily.
I believe Ned at Autolusso has developed a replacement ECU - not cheap mind.

EDIT: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-gta/1080658-au...