DCT long term

[CaptainMorgan]

I'm looking at a new car in the next few months, I've been having a bit of a head vs heart tussle with myself for a while. My heart choice is a M3 in E90/2 flavour. I've always liked them and the way engines are downsizing at the moment I doubt we'll see many more V8 engines being made in the future so think it's a good time to go for one.

Problem is I really want an auto and while the DCT gets decent reviews, BMW offers no suggestion of maintenance schedule for them which worries me. The car I plan to own for a long long time and I'd like to do all I can to keep it running well, while VWs DSG isnt faultless, they do offer a service schedule and service kits for them. What happens when they have issues? Is it just a case of replacing the whole thing at £5k? £10k?

So, anyone got any info on how long these boxes are lasting, anyone who's worked on them or serviced them?

Cheers

[Max Maxasson]

The E9x M3 DCTs are immensely reliable (more so that the manual box).
There are replacement clutch packs available but I've never read of anyone (in a standard car) ever needing one.
There are plenty of spare used DCT boxes (out of written off cars) available under £1000 - there simply is no market for them.
The E9x M3 is a fabulous cars to own - I liked mine more than the M4 comp pack I have now.

[Tony B2]

Max Maxasson said:

The E9x M3 DCTs are immensely reliable (more so that the manual box).
There are replacement clutch packs available but I've never read of anyone (in a standard car) ever needing one.
There are plenty of spare used DCT boxes (out of written off cars) available under £1000 - there simply is no market for them.
The E9x M3 is a fabulous cars to own - I liked mine more than the M4 comp pack I have now.

Agreed - DCT boxes do seem to be very reliable, but more than the manual?

And "Intriguing Last Sentence - Part 2".....come on Peter....spill....

[Max Maxasson]

Tony B2 said:

Agreed - DCT boxes do seem to be very reliable, but more than the manual?

Following the (much bigger manual box) USA E9x M3 market....quite a few manual box owners had problems with syncro ring wear and the odd clutch having to be replaced. Not an epidemic by any means....but overall the DCT seems to be the more reliable choice or at least not something to be concerned about given the number of spare boxes around.

Tony B2 said:

And "Intriguing Last Sentence - Part 2".....come on Peter....spill....

Well Tony, its 6 months since I bought my 2017 M4 CP....and it just doesn't live up to my E92 M3s.
Sure the M4 has more performance and lots of front end grip but it just doesn't provide the confidence to throw it around in the same way my old M3s did.
Everyone seems to think Sport+ is the best throttle setting for the M4, but the nature of the anti-lag overboost at lower revs in this mode means that the throttle response, while instant, is often uneven and can be quite spiky. Plus the DSC in this mode had some unpleasant traits, it seems to be overactive and can make the rear of the car feel as if something is loose as it uses the brakes to try and "steady" the car.
I've settled for using throttle in the much maligned Efficient setting..giving up the instant throttle response at low revs for an even and far more predictable response across the range. Takes a while to get used to, you have to use more revs to keep up the gas flow and thus boost - it actually starts to feel a bit like the old E92 M3 on steroids (or my old 911 turbo) - although you do have to account for the rush of power as the engine comes on full boost around the 3500 rpm mark.
The E9x M3 is in a different league for throttle response, engine and exhaust sound along with a chassis you could exploit to the limit in a way you would be reluctant to in the F8x M series.
Not a popular opinion I know.

[dannyDC2]

Max Maxasson said:

Tony B2 said:

Agreed - DCT boxes do seem to be very reliable, but more than the manual?

Following the (much bigger manual box) USA E9x M3 market....quite a few manual box owners had problems with syncro ring wear and the odd clutch having to be replaced. Not an epidemic by any means....but overall the DCT seems to be the more reliable choice or at least not something to be concerned about given the number of spare boxes around.

I'd put those issues down to bad driving habits. Especially in America

I think you're brave suggesting that the DCT will be more reliable - blashpemy!!

[CaptainMorgan]

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought of the spare complete boxes situation, worst case the box on the car died totally I could drop another in it, good shout! In all honesty, 90% of my driving is chilled out commuting, maybe 10% is hard driving so the box would get an easy life.

I need to dig about a bit more, do some research on the car as a whole and decide if I have the balls to go for one or not I think.

Thanks again!

[Max Maxasson]

dannyDC2 said:

I'd put those issues down to bad driving habits. Especially in America

I think you're brave suggesting that the DCT will be more reliable - blashpemy!!

Yeah fair point about driving habits. But the USA market is home to some 30 odd thousand E9x M3s of which somewhere around half are manual boxes.....so its a good representation of how reliable the DCT is against the MT.
And it is as I said, the DCT are essentially bulletproof which is not surprising when you consider its an off the shelf item from Getrag built to handle 50% more torque than the E9x M3 produces.

[ftypical]

That Sport+ smacks the gearshift home without making them any quicker than Sport (discuss...) does not bode well for various bits of the transmission known to suffer on previous models (clutch, transmission mounts, guibos, differentials, sub-frame mounts...)

[ndj]

Sump gaskets can leak requiring the replacement of the entire sump plus fluid. Not bank breaking but a few hundred quid.

The mechatronics panel gasket can also leak requiring the box to be partially dropped to replace. Again not life/death but if you have all done at the same time it's more than a few quid in parts and labour.

Other than that I agree with the other comments above regarding reliability.

[Tony B2]

Max Maxasson said:

Well Tony, its 6 months since I bought my 2017 M4 CP....and it just doesn't live up to my E92 M3s.
Sure the M4 has more performance and lots of front end grip but it just doesn't provide the confidence to throw it around in the same way my old M3s did.
Everyone seems to think Sport+ is the best throttle setting for the M4, but the nature of the anti-lag overboost at lower revs in this mode means that the throttle response, while instant, is often uneven and can be quite spiky. Plus the DSC in this mode had some unpleasant traits, it seems to be overactive and can make the rear of the car feel as if something is loose as it uses the brakes to try and "steady" the car.
I've settled for using throttle in the much maligned Efficient setting..giving up the instant throttle response at low revs for an even and far more predictable response across the range. Takes a while to get used to, you have to use more revs to keep up the gas flow and thus boost - it actually starts to feel a bit like the old E92 M3 on steroids (or my old 911 turbo) - although you do have to account for the rush of power as the engine comes on full boost around the 3500 rpm mark.
The E9x M3 is in a different league for throttle response, engine and exhaust sound along with a chassis you could exploit to the limit in a way you would be reluctant to in the F8x M series.
Not a popular opinion I know.

(Apologies to the OP, for going OT...)

Interesting comments, and I agree, although I have no experience of the 2017 M4CP, I do have loads of experience with the 2015/2016 M4 in standard form.

To me it is a very powerful but blunt weapon, and nowhere near as pleasant to exploit at 10/10ths as the E92 is. And when you take away the extra power/torque advantage of the F-series (as in more normal on road driving) the precision/responsiveness/noise (music) of the old car are very attractive alternatives.

And given that the 2017 CP is supposed to be so much better than previous years (according to motoring journos) I don't regret my decision to stay with what I have got!

I am getting tempted by Porsches however.....(F6, NA ones, at least)

[SebringMan]

dannyDC2 said:

I'd put those issues down to bad driving habits. Especially in America

I think you're brave suggesting that the DCT will be more reliable - blashpemy!!

Or manual bias?

Alot of people I know in the UK aren't the kindest to gearboxes, espeically ones which are reluctant when cold etc. One friend of mine who is a manual lover has killed two gearboxes in both of his cars, both low milers before anyone asks (one was still within warranty, the other had 40k on the clock).

But he still has a manual M4...

I could carry on about others but you get the idea .

Edited by SebringMan on Tuesday 22 August 18:10

[Nick928]

ftypical said:

That Sport+ smacks the gearshift home without making them any quicker than Sport (discuss...) does not bode well for various bits of the transmission known to suffer on previous models (clutch, transmission mounts, guibos, differentials, sub-frame mounts...)

If we are talking about the F8x range, the Sport+ throttle setting doesn't affect the gearbox. That's taken care of by the 1,2,3 settings on the gearbox itself. That said a lot of people appear to just bang all settings to max or fastest. I find dampers and steering to comfort and Sport throttle and 2 on the gearbox works well for a spirited drive on the road.

[ftypical]

Nick928 said:

If we are talking about the F8x range, the Sport+ throttle setting doesn't affect the gearbox. That's taken care of by the 1,2,3 settings on the gearbox itself. That said a lot of people appear to just bang all settings to max or fastest. I find dampers and steering to comfort and Sport throttle and 2 on the gearbox works well for a spirited drive on the road.

M2.

Sport was good, Comfort appeared to be confused, Sport+ was on a mission to destroy the transmission

[Nick928]

ftypical said:

Nick928 said:

If we are talking about the F8x range, the Sport+ throttle setting doesn't affect the gearbox. That's taken care of by the 1,2,3 settings on the gearbox itself. That said a lot of people appear to just bang all settings to max or fastest. I find dampers and steering to comfort and Sport throttle and 2 on the gearbox works well for a spirited drive on the road.

M2.

Sport was good, Comfort appeared to be confused, Sport+ was on a mission to destroy the transmission

Does the M2 not have seperate settings for the throttle and gearbox like the M3/4?

[CaptainMorgan]

ndj said:

Sump gaskets can leak requiring the replacement of the entire sump plus fluid. Not bank breaking but a few hundred quid.

The mechatronics panel gasket can also leak requiring the box to be partially dropped to replace. Again not life/death but if you have all done at the same time it's more than a few quid in parts and labour.

Other than that I agree with the other comments above regarding reliability.

Ah yes, I'd read about a few leaks cropping up. Just been reading about some guys over in the US changing the oil on them, although you can only change about 5.5L of 7.5L I think.

[cosworth330]

Nick928 said:

If we are talking about the F8x range, the Sport+ throttle setting doesn't affect the gearbox. That's taken care of by the 1,2,3 settings on the gearbox itself. That said a lot of people appear to just bang all settings to max or fastest. I find dampers and steering to comfort and Sport throttle and 2 on the gearbox works well for a spirited drive on the road.

That's the same settings I use when I want a bit of fun, programmed into M1 button. Chilled out driving I use comfort on 3 and D1.