Elise S3 1.6 owners - thoughts?
Discussion
i've had my MY11 Elise for just over a month now and still very happy. Thanks to Parky at Lipscombe i had a back-to-back test of several versions of the elise. To me absolute power isn't the issue - i can enjoy TVRs and such like for that - but wringing the most out of such a sublime chassis is a real joy. The flow of of power from a 1.6 is smooth, and needs driver input (gearbox). 6-speed 'box suits the engine perfectly. Great car, anyway there is no absolute answer to 'best' car. BTW i had the power pack fitted, which i think is essential as it feels far more responsive, even though real power gains are minimal. i'm happy conceding road position to any passing Audi TDi on the dual carriageway in the knowledge, and realisation, that i'll have 'em at the first roundabout or twisty ;-)
Robert Elise said:
i'm happy conceding road position to any passing Audi TDi on the dual carriageway in the knowledge, and realisation, that i'll have 'em at the first roundabout or twisty ;-)
and thats where I wasn't happy... to me the car then was 'all show & no go' looked low & fast complete with LOTUS written across the rear & then some rep mobile just cruised past you! not good...Supose I wanted it all, to have the sublime handling of the Lotus chassis and cornering abilities, yet with genuine super car straight line performance, so for me 300bhp is really the minimum I'd accept now, and with 360ft lb of torque from 2500rpm its utterly ballistic!
Back on topic I really do struggle to see how a 1.6 130bhp Elise 'cuts' it as a 'sports car' I not trolling for reaction here, I've been on PH for many years now for people to know that and have had most variants of VX / Elise / Exige & classed as a Lotus enthusiast but as said I really feel they should have upped the power, 250bhp in an Elise would have them flying out of the showrooms!
You can choose not to use the power you've got, but you can't choose to use the power you've not got!
MrSimba said:
and thats where I wasn't happy... to me the car then was 'all show & no go' looked low & fast complete with LOTUS written across the rear & then some rep mobile just cruised past you! not good...
youe missed the pointLet them go past, they know youve let them, they know youve got the better car. you dont need to show it.
I dont have anything against the 1.6 either, my issue is aside from better build quality it's stayed in pretty much a timewarp from 1996, while every other even mildly sporting car has been getting more powerful, even the Mx5 is now pretty much as fast in 2 litre form, for a lot less money
When the S1 came out and the later Rover K S2 you got a car that was uncompromised and fairly fast, if you picked the base model, which seemed to make up a good 50% of sales IMO, the Engine was easily tuneable to 160hp/170hp which gave serious go, it was a great package overall
The low powered yota models, were just to slow out of the box, the game had moved on from the Rover K series days and by the time they arrived people expected and wanted more performance, were the Rover cars offered just enough performance in base trim for most people at there time of launch, the Yota's were just to little out of the box and with pretty much zero tuning options from lotus or anybody else for that matter.
Sales were low, the 1.6 just continues the trend started by the previous 1.8 and sales are almost non existent despite it being the only Elise varient around.
So it's either the styling everyone hates or the lack of performance, take your pick, my moneys on performance, as dismal sales of the S2 N/A Elan and Stevens Esprit testify, no one wants a slow lotus
When the S1 came out and the later Rover K S2 you got a car that was uncompromised and fairly fast, if you picked the base model, which seemed to make up a good 50% of sales IMO, the Engine was easily tuneable to 160hp/170hp which gave serious go, it was a great package overall
The low powered yota models, were just to slow out of the box, the game had moved on from the Rover K series days and by the time they arrived people expected and wanted more performance, were the Rover cars offered just enough performance in base trim for most people at there time of launch, the Yota's were just to little out of the box and with pretty much zero tuning options from lotus or anybody else for that matter.
Sales were low, the 1.6 just continues the trend started by the previous 1.8 and sales are almost non existent despite it being the only Elise varient around.
So it's either the styling everyone hates or the lack of performance, take your pick, my moneys on performance, as dismal sales of the S2 N/A Elan and Stevens Esprit testify, no one wants a slow lotus
MrSimba said:
saaby93 said:
Youve missed the point
Let them go past, they know youve let them, they know youve got the better car. you dont need to show it.
But you've not 'let them past' fact is a £30K+ Lotus is underpowered against a basic TDi hatch.Let them go past, they know youve let them, they know youve got the better car. you dont need to show it.
Of course youve let them past - have you read roadcraft?
As for a basic 30k lotus is underpowered against a basic tdi hatch...
Lotus has always had smaller engines than their competitors
Anyone can stick in a lump if all theyre looking for is power
You need to look at a few other factors or you go with the sheep and buy the hatch.
saaby93 said:
heyre under 30k new look in the classifieds.
Of course youve let them past - have you read roadcraft?
As for a basic 30k lotus is underpowered against a basic tdi hatch...
Lotus has always had smaller engines than their competitors
Anyone can stick in a lump if all theyre looking for is power
You need to look at a few other factors or you go with the sheep and buy the hatch.
I understand we can't change your view on the suitability of the 1.6 but sales seem poor i dont think its about the styling it's about the lack of distinct change and value in upgrading for current owners (lets not forget the big boss chap pretty much said he wanted to move away from us due to a lack of sales) and for those in boxsters a lack of alot of things they get with their manufacture for the same price. Please dont say it isn't because with dwindling numbers of people who can afford these luxuries lotus are competing with boxsters, MX5's et al in a smaller market. It also just so happens I get annoyed if in stucked behind people like my Mum in her 3.0tdi who brakes into every corner then presses the loud pedal on the straight giving small capacity cars no chance to over take SAFELY.Of course youve let them past - have you read roadcraft?
As for a basic 30k lotus is underpowered against a basic tdi hatch...
Lotus has always had smaller engines than their competitors
Anyone can stick in a lump if all theyre looking for is power
You need to look at a few other factors or you go with the sheep and buy the hatch.
I drove 1.6 and loved the shape, steering, ride... oh yesss loved it but, and a big but, power delivery. If you in the wrong gear and you need to nip in or get out of trouble forget it. I drive a lot of miles, mostly in a Navara which is so gear sensitive it can catch you out, despite the best efforts we all have moments where the numerous distractions on the road catch us in the wrong gear.
The lotus feels as though it has the same trait, albeit for a different reason. As a fun car it will be fine as the focus will be on driving the A road but for everyday use it may become tiresome.
The figures sound good but if it is a sharp pointy delivery you obviously need to ride it right. I would love it on track as the pleasure of getting it right would be enhanced but on the road I fear a diesel turbo hatch would spot the gap and beat you to it.
Want one? I do but fear depreciation as it may become known as the slow Lotus, and who wants one of those.
J
The lotus feels as though it has the same trait, albeit for a different reason. As a fun car it will be fine as the focus will be on driving the A road but for everyday use it may become tiresome.
The figures sound good but if it is a sharp pointy delivery you obviously need to ride it right. I would love it on track as the pleasure of getting it right would be enhanced but on the road I fear a diesel turbo hatch would spot the gap and beat you to it.
Want one? I do but fear depreciation as it may become known as the slow Lotus, and who wants one of those.
J
saaby93 said:
heyre under 30k new look in the classifieds.
You need to look at a few other factors or you go with the sheep and buy the hatch.
You've obviously not read what I posted...You need to look at a few other factors or you go with the sheep and buy the hatch.
Didn't go with the 'sheep' sold the Elise SC (which was too lethargic so god knows what the 1.6 is like...) and bought a 300bhp / 360ft lb VX220 Turbo, same chassis, handling and precision as the elise just with the grunt the Elise lacks.
Never been happier, but each to there own.
And the next time a TDi passes you feel free to believe you 'let it by' if that makes you feel better!!!
MrSimba said:
You've obviously not read what I posted...
Didn't go with the 'sheep' sold the Elise SC (which was too lethargic so god knows what the 1.6 is like...) and bought a 300bhp / 360ft lb VX220 Turbo, same chassis, handling and precision as the elise just with the grunt the Elise lacks.
Never been happier, but each to there own.
And the next time a TDi passes you feel free to believe you 'let it by' if that makes you feel better!!!
When I said 'You' I didnt mean You personally I meant 'One'Didn't go with the 'sheep' sold the Elise SC (which was too lethargic so god knows what the 1.6 is like...) and bought a 300bhp / 360ft lb VX220 Turbo, same chassis, handling and precision as the elise just with the grunt the Elise lacks.
Never been happier, but each to there own.
And the next time a TDi passes you feel free to believe you 'let it by' if that makes you feel better!!!
but 'You' is in more general usage
If that helps...........
Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 24th March 22:24
The S3 doesn't quite cut it for me. Not sure why. Sometimes I think the line is indeed more refined, and sometimes not. The big stumbling block has to be the 'lack of power'. Sports cars, and particularly Lotus, have to be exactly that, fast and fun and stonking to look at. These have to be the main criteria othewise you don't dream of aspiring to one. Economy, while important is not a primary concern. So a fastish but economical car doesn't become a dream car, it just falls into the ordinary, and thats not what the Lotus image is about.
I don't think that more power necessarily leads to greater driving enjoyment. I didn't test drive an SC, but I can imagine that you would soon grow accustomed to the wave of flat torque and passing everything in sight. You tend to adjust, or recalibrate your butt dyno with more power, but a car that you can drive at eight tenths without being too fast for the road can be more rewarding.
For me, the MY11 elise has just enough power and is a joy to drive. It is an old formula, but none the worse for it.
For me, the MY11 elise has just enough power and is a joy to drive. It is an old formula, but none the worse for it.
The thing that is really hurting the 1.6 IMO is that all the second hand varients, of the elise are not only faster but cheaper, and that includes all the nearly new 1.8 yota S's and R's, which have the same build quality + better engines
The car has not moved the game on at all, from prev versions it's if anything gone backwards, which has benefitted rivals, and makes it look especially bad value vs second hand Elises
The car has not moved the game on at all, from prev versions it's if anything gone backwards, which has benefitted rivals, and makes it look especially bad value vs second hand Elises
The comment about being caught in the wrong gear exactly illustrates that the point at the heart of the fun is being missed. Don't get caught in the wrong gear. Be a better driver and don't just rely on a powerful engine to make you faster than whatever car near you that you suddenly want to beat. Sure, it's not for everyone but plenty of those who have a low-powered Elise like them. It's ridiculous to say its not a sports car, and simply untrue that it's slow. There's more to driver-enjoymnent than "racing" in straight line on dual carriageways and motorways. The car absolutely shines on country roads.
As to sales, hardly anyone wants a Lotus at all, and realistically that's not really going to change much whatever they do.
As to sales, hardly anyone wants a Lotus at all, and realistically that's not really going to change much whatever they do.
As to sales, hardly anyone wants a Lotus at all, and realistically that's not really going to change much whatever they do.
[/quote]
Now there's a somewhat provocative statement. Can't agree. Hopefully I'm not alone. Just off to a Club Lotus meeting over here in France to see all those other people that are passionate about their cars. Strangely enough I'm expecting a busy day. I'll post some photos later of all the other people that don't want a Lotus
I firmly believe people want to buy Lotus cars, but that the product needs to be in line with its image and other manufacturers. I for one love my car, I'm proud it's a Lotus and have no regrets. Not sure the S3 matches up, but I'd still buy one ahead of all those germanic and japanese cars if I was in the market to update.
[/quote]
Now there's a somewhat provocative statement. Can't agree. Hopefully I'm not alone. Just off to a Club Lotus meeting over here in France to see all those other people that are passionate about their cars. Strangely enough I'm expecting a busy day. I'll post some photos later of all the other people that don't want a Lotus
I firmly believe people want to buy Lotus cars, but that the product needs to be in line with its image and other manufacturers. I for one love my car, I'm proud it's a Lotus and have no regrets. Not sure the S3 matches up, but I'd still buy one ahead of all those germanic and japanese cars if I was in the market to update. 
peter450 said:
So it's either the styling everyone hates or the lack of performance, take your pick, my moneys on performance, as dismal sales of the S2 N/A Elan and Stevens Esprit testify, no one wants a slow lotus
Or the market is already saturated, and there are far too many owners who have no intention of upgrading... Look at the amount of S1 drivers - myself included - who wouldn't even consider an S2 Elise, irrespective of whether it has 250bhp, 300bhp, 700bhp.
Why would I 'upgrade'? To my mind, it doesn't look as nice, it's not as much fun, it doesn't offer anything new.
I guess maybe power could tempt some people, but then again many of those who wanted 300bhp have gone down the Honda/Audi route anyway, so again there's no need for them to upgrade.
There are so many Elises on the market, I'm not overly sure there are that many buyers.
Yeah. To clarify my earlier post I was referring to sales of a brand new Lotus. Of course, lots of existing owners are very happy with their cars, however old those cars are, and there are plenty of second-hand cars changing hands. Question would be whether a totally new model Elise would tempt some switches, or lots to give Lotus a boost. Anyway, that should be in another thread as OP was asking 1.6 owners what they think of their cars.
I think perhaps some people are missing the point of this particular Elise - from what i've gathered Lotus are trying to make the Elise more user friendly on a day to day basis thus making the Elise a fun commute and a fantastic track/fast road drive!
I haven't yet test driven one but hopefully if finances work out will be almost definitely purchasing one - after what some people have said i'm expecting to get over taken by every rep mobile out there - which there are many capable mid range diesels these days that can destroy many a hot hatch/sports car!
Dave,
I haven't yet test driven one but hopefully if finances work out will be almost definitely purchasing one - after what some people have said i'm expecting to get over taken by every rep mobile out there - which there are many capable mid range diesels these days that can destroy many a hot hatch/sports car!
Dave,
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