Elise S3 1.6 owners - thoughts?

[peter450]

pthelazyjourno said:

peter450 said:

So it's either the styling everyone hates or the lack of performance, take your pick, my moneys on performance, as dismal sales of the S2 N/A Elan and Stevens Esprit testify, no one wants a slow lotus

Or the market is already saturated, and there are far too many owners who have no intention of upgrading...

Look at the amount of S1 drivers - myself included - who wouldn't even consider an S2 Elise, irrespective of whether it has 250bhp, 300bhp, 700bhp.

Why would I 'upgrade'? To my mind, it doesn't look as nice, it's not as much fun, it doesn't offer anything new.

I guess maybe power could tempt some people, but then again many of those who wanted 300bhp have gone down the Honda/Audi route anyway, so again there's no need for them to upgrade.

There are so many Elises on the market, I'm not overly sure there are that many buyers.

Maybe, but such a scenario usually see's a steady sales decline over time, as soon as the 190hp and 220hp and Exige models were no more, sales fell off a cliff, the 1.6 is lotus slowest selling model, despite being it's cheapest and the Elise being there best seller for many years

Even if it had a SC bolted on and 170hp it probably would not fly off the shelf as the Elise concept is quite old now and it's a mature market, but i'm sure that there would be a steady turn over of cars, unlike now were they dont seem to be selling any at all, i'd be quite surprised if they have sold more than a 100 1.6's in total so far

[pthelazyjourno]

MrSimba said:

and thats where I wasn't happy... to me the car then was 'all show & no go' looked low & fast complete with LOTUS written across the rear & then some rep mobile just cruised past you! not good...

Supose I wanted it all, to have the sublime handling of the Lotus chassis and cornering abilities, yet with genuine super car straight line performance, so for me 300bhp is really the minimum I'd accept now, and with 360ft lb of torque from 2500rpm its utterly ballistic!

Back on topic I really do struggle to see how a 1.6 130bhp Elise 'cuts' it as a 'sports car' I not trolling for reaction here, I've been on PH for many years now for people to know that and have had most variants of VX / Elise / Exige & classed as a Lotus enthusiast but as said I really feel they should have upped the power, 250bhp in an Elise would have them flying out of the showrooms!

You can choose not to use the power you've got, but you can't choose to use the power you've not got!

I disagree that it's all show and no go.

Perhaps on the A14 or roads of such ilk, but fk that, I'd buy an AMG Merc if I wanted a bahn stormer.

Even with 130bhp, there's very little that would keep up with a well driven Elise around the roads near me. The extra width on most performance cars makes all the difference - you can't throw them around at anywhere near the pace they're capable of, as they're just too wide.

I know I never struggled to ditch TDi's when out on a run, and I'm no Senna.

Are they quicker than my car above 70mph? Of course they are - just like many cars are quicker than Caterhams above 100mph. In both cases, I couldn't give a fk, as I very very rarely drive above either.

I'd much rather have a car I can exploit, put my foot down, rag the arse off it and have a giggle, than one with twice the power that I have to pussyfoot round.

Granted, mine has more power than the 1.6, but it's not really necessary. It's simply not possible to go much faster on country roads without becoming a liability, so having 300bhp is often just a waste.

The old 1.8S was fine - not stupidly quick, but fine for most occasions. I'd imagine the 1.6 is very similar.

Obviously everyone has different expectations though. I do see that it runs out of puff above 70mph, but down a bumpy, windy road, that can be fking quick!!

Edited by pthelazyjourno on Monday 26th March 13:13

[Thorburn]

The trick they missed out on was not homologating the car with the 'Power Pack' fitted. Then with 142bhp the press would have been going "Smaller engine but more powerful", rather than focusing on the fact it was smaller and had less torque. Only downside would be they'd have likely gone over the 149g/km tax banding in doing so.

Pretty sure they've sold more than 100 of them. I'd guess quite a few have gone abroad though.

On the road I thought it was every bit as good to drive as my S1. On track 3rd gear felt a little too long. Also made me remember just how crap the suspension setup on my car really is - getting that sorted shortly!

[MagicalTrevor]

Slightly off-topic but did they make an 'R' version of the S3 (or rather S2.5)? I see now that they only do an Elise (1.6) and the Elise S (1.8SC)

[Thorburn]

MagicalTrevor said:

Slightly off-topic but did they make an 'R' version of the S3 (or rather S2.5)? I see now that they only do an Elise (1.6) and the Elise S (1.8SC)

Yes, they started off with the Elise 1.6, R and SC when the facelift was first introduced. The R and SC models all had to be registered before the Euro V emission regulations came in to effect as the 2ZZ engine was only Euro IV compliant. I think this was after December 31st 2010, but I'm not 100% sure.

The R and SC did continue for export to other regions such as the US however, as did the S2 Exige. These too have been killed off though - I think because the 'smart airbag' exemption for the Elise/Exige range in the US has expired. The US is only getting the new Exige S as a non-road registered track car.

[Olivera]

I'm sure the S3 1.6 is a very enjoyable car, but for the price it needs more grunt. Evo figured the 1.6 Sport Racer at half a second slower round Bedford West than a Leon Cupra, that's despite the Elise being at least £5k dearer and the West layout featuring a lot of corners.

[anonymous-user]

But which do you think was the more rewarding lap?

Bear in mind that the 1.6 CR finished fifth overall in this year's eCoty with every other car in the test being more powerful. It didn't achieve that on the basis of its laptime at Bedford. It is irrelevant.

Also IIRC the Sport 135 was considered by evo to hit the sweet-spot for a road-going car.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 26th March 22:34

[MagicalTrevor]

Olivera said:

I'm sure the S3 1.6 is a very enjoyable car, but for the price it needs more grunt. Evo figured the 1.6 Sport Racer at half a second slower round Bedford West than a Leon Cupra, that's despite the Elise being at least £5k dearer and the West layout featuring a lot of corners.

Does grunt REALLY matter on a track day? The straights (where the grunt is mainly used) aren't the most exciting part, it's the corners that are fun and being able to hold speed through the bends is exciting. That's where the 1.6 CR comes in surely?

That and it's low tax and high mpg makes it quite attractive IMO

[MrSimba]

pthelazyjourno said:

I disagree that it's all show and no go.

... I do see that it runs out of puff above 70mph, but down a bumpy, windy road, that can be fking quick!!

Edited by pthelazyjourno on Monday 26th March 13:13

And thats my point!

Its a Sports Car they shouldn't 'run out of puff' at 70mph - your right though on a windy bumpy road that is quick, but when that road opens up I want to feel a wall of torque throwing towards the horizon!

Hence I 'want it all' a small nimble chuckable car that is the Elise / Exige but with real grunt and power that you really have to drive, I'd argue its a lot more fun in an Elise chassis to control 360+ft lb on tap, having instant power in any gear, and really having to watch the road conditions and surfaces, feeling exactly whats happening beneath you, as it WILL try to stick you in a hedge if you get it wrong, than having to spank the arse out of 130bhp to get the thing moving and running out of puff at 70mph!

Honestly I'd fall asleep with power delivery like that!!!

[car95]

That's your taste, and you've already made that clear in earlier posts! You're not an S3 1.6 owner and you don't want one, we've got that. Are you trying to persuade us to stop liking our cars? Or that we are mistaken in our belief that we like them? ;o)

[MrSimba]

car95 said:

That's your taste, and you've already made that clear in earlier posts! You're not an S3 1.6 owner and you don't want one, we've got that. Are you trying to persuade us to stop liking our cars? Or that we are mistaken in our belief that we like them? ;o)

No not at all, just the OP asked ' Is it quick enough to raise a smile?' if it is for him then thats all that matters!

[anonymous-user]

So, as long as he's not looking for something that will stick him in a hedge at the first opportunity and allow him to go get into a pissing contest with M3s and 911s, then he might just find the 1.6 tolerable ;-)

[Robert Elise]

....bringing this back to original post: i chose my S3 over other options in part because the suspension was much improved over previous models. the other parts of the decision were lower total cost of ownership and belief that the simple model was pure fun, esp with 6-speeds. i wouldn't so "no" to some free extra horses for sure, but i wouldn't want them in a peaky engine like the R. Power Pack is a must have too. Plus musicians ear plugs - top tip guys, these are comfortable and allow all speech and radio in. the new exhaust is great, but tiring after a while. ordinary foam ear plugs make you feel closed in and have too much pressure once expanded. £12 well spent.

I would not make the Elise hyper-powered. it's great as it is or maybe extra 50bhp. i would increase my garage and have *another* toy to complement its charms though...
what would that be? TVR, Evora, Morgan+8, Scud, R500, 2cv????

Life's too short for just one toy.

[Captain Muppet]

Robert Elise said:

....2cv????

I had one of those - you can drive flat out all the time just keeping up with traffic. Some of my best driving moments ever were in that car - it was always on the limit of either cornering grip or acceleration. Very, very slow, but loads of fun.

[Thorburn]

Robert Elise said:

i chose my S3 over other options in part because the suspension was much improved over previous models.

I don't think the Elise suspension has changed since the introduction of the Toyota engined cars - barring the use of the Exige suspension on some special editions such as the Sport Racer.

The service part list shows them all as using the same dampers (except a few early US cars) and springs and it's an 'A' revision part number so it's not been revised during the cars production.

[Robert Elise]

Thorburn said:

Robert Elise said:

i chose my S3 over other options in part because the suspension was much improved over previous models.

I don't think the Elise suspension has changed since the introduction of the Toyota engined cars - barring the use of the Exige suspension on some special editions such as the Sport Racer.


Well, on back to back test drives the MY11 felt smoother, more composed, less 'crash'. At least on cars i drove. Or maybe Parky at Lipscombe was sweet talking up the sale, but i don't think so. his quote was "...having a slight edge of road manners due to it being the 2011MY shape. This had a update with newer / better suspension units and spring rates, and just soaks the road bumps up about 5-10% better."


One thing that would me enjoy ANY car more in Sussex or Kent would be less speed cameras outside of villages. south-east is getting ridiculous....another thread

[MilnerR]

I currently drive an S2 Exige 190 and an E39 530i, prior to that I had an Impreza 2.5 STi and an S2 Elise (rover engined).

The STi was proper quick and very very grippy, however I used to take the Elise to work more often than the STi because it was more fun (I drive over the Cat and Fiddle everyday). The STi would see off any TDi and would also see off most other things in the twisties, including my S2 Elise (at least with me driving), however the S2 Elise with 120bhp was so much more fun to drive; setting it into a corner, getting the front end to grip and then steering it on the accelerator was more fun than pointing the STi at a corner and letting it hang on. I've only driven the S3 Elise once and liked it for the same reason I liked my 120bhp S2.

In the end I got rid of the STi and my S2 and got the BMW and Exige 190, the STi was attracting too much unwanted attention (including a house break in). The Exige gives me a bit of straight line speed (to make up for my much missed STi) and the Lotus chassis to play with.

The S3 Elise is closer to the Lotus ethos than the Evora or the new V6 Exige, which is why I would have one (providing I had something with 300 + bhp for when I wanted to be pinned back in my seat)

[carspath]

Thinking about a 1.6 S3 Elise

What is the current opinion about this model cf the earlier higher and lower powered S2 cars?

The 2012 posts were mixed in their opinions

[stu1984]

I have owned an Elise S3 1.6 for almost a year now and love it. I previously owned a vx220 (non turbo) for three years which was similar in power/performance. There a few more creature comforts in the lotus though (a heater that works fir starters!) and the interior/cockpit style and feel is much more modern than the vx and the S2 elises. The feedback and feel through both the wheel (and your backside) when driving the elise is superb.....The Toyota engined S2 elises such as the R are meant to be awesome too- either way you can't go wrong really......Happy hunting!

[Richard-G]

carspath said:

Thinking about a 1.6 S3 Elise

What is the current opinion about this model cf the earlier higher and lower powered S2 cars?

The 2012 posts were mixed in their opinions

i had one (check my profile) and absolutely loved it, of all the cars ive owned since its still the one car id have back without question.

the beauty is with the 1.6 is that its bullet proof, you can drive it like you stole it and only just get into toublesome speeds AND its fitted into the S3 elise which i found great on track, for daily use and for fun.

if you like driving its a great car, if you want a car that will obliterate S3's and the like it isnt for you.

if i had one critiscisim its that i wish it reved 500 rpm more, but thats nit picking.

one final point, i purchased mine in 2013 with 1500 miles on it at £22,500, Sold it for £22,000 18 months on and with 13,000 on the clock. Just seen it for sale at £20,000 with 65,000 miles on it (its now sold). talk about depreciation proof!