E92 M3 to Exige S2 S
Discussion
Anyone done it? Looking for c&c on how they drive really, Ive never even sat in one. Obviously chalk and cheese....
Before I got my E92 M3 I did consider a 2 car drive, a daily (cheap thing) plus a toy, most likely an Elise with a K20 or an Exige S (Supercharged) something that would be an event to drive, but had always wanted a V8 M3 since I was 17 back in 2006 so took that direction... So the Exige would be a 6 month better weather car.
Start a new job soon so sticking the m3 up for sale as travel might not suit a thirsty V8. I dont think itll sell quickly if Im honest, a poor market for these cars at the moment but I don't really see the E92 M3 as a second car for me although I may sorn it and daily it during the summer.
Before I got my E92 M3 I did consider a 2 car drive, a daily (cheap thing) plus a toy, most likely an Elise with a K20 or an Exige S (Supercharged) something that would be an event to drive, but had always wanted a V8 M3 since I was 17 back in 2006 so took that direction... So the Exige would be a 6 month better weather car.
Start a new job soon so sticking the m3 up for sale as travel might not suit a thirsty V8. I dont think itll sell quickly if Im honest, a poor market for these cars at the moment but I don't really see the E92 M3 as a second car for me although I may sorn it and daily it during the summer.
that will be a huge step 'forwards' if you use it as a second car.
never owned a elise or exige, but have test driven a few, very good steering feel and you feel connected and light.
a M3 V8 sounds good on paper, but the engine is to low on torque and power for such heavy machine.
hell, I have such engine in my Z3 and a bit extra 440hp in a under 1300kg car and its still very very drivable, because of low torque and smooth from low to high revs.
The Exige will feel alive, ready to race :-) and ow, I guess more driving fun at lower mph.
never owned a elise or exige, but have test driven a few, very good steering feel and you feel connected and light.
a M3 V8 sounds good on paper, but the engine is to low on torque and power for such heavy machine.
hell, I have such engine in my Z3 and a bit extra 440hp in a under 1300kg car and its still very very drivable, because of low torque and smooth from low to high revs.
The Exige will feel alive, ready to race :-) and ow, I guess more driving fun at lower mph.
Coming from a front engine RWD car to mid engine RWD with a very short wheelbase (shorter and an Audi A1) you'll find that oversteer on corner exit is much less attainable and requires a lot more balls, commitment and skill, and when you get it wrong and over cook it, its much less forgiving.
Ive never owned an M3 but have owned several higher powered non M BMWs, and went from a 335i to an S2 Exige 240 (I now have a sport 350). The S2 just doesn't have the torque to get the back moving on corner exit unless you have a decent amount of oversteer when at the apex which you can carry to exit if you have skills and get on the power before it stops rotating. Its a bit easier in the wet, but even less forgiving if it gets too far out of step.
You'll hear complaints that Lotus Elise / Exige understeer badly but thats if you don't commit in corner entry, the light front end can understeer on turn in and mid corner without weight on the nose so you need to trail brake right up to the apex to keep the front loaded and keep the balance mildly towards oversteer, keeping the mild oversteer through corner exit and the wheel straight ahead by steering on throttle is the key to going quickly and is tremendously satisfying if you get it right, but also very challenging and the window to hold it like this very narrow.
The default geo's on the non cup cars generally do have a very mild understeer balance but additional camber and toe out on the front sorts that easily enough. But that really only helps corner entry and mid corner balance. If you are not rotating the car on corner entry and carrying that rotation to exit it will generally always understeer on exit unless grip levels are low, and then you are a mere lift/dab of the brakes away from snap oversteer which is how people usually crash them. I.e. coming out of a bend understeering and meeting an obstacle requiring a reduction in speed.
The general feel of the car is very direct and it provides huge feedback on what all the 4 corners are doing, braking is astonishing, I've been on track with well driven M3's and braking points in comparison are of an order of multiples of car lengths later than almost anything else thats not a Caterham or another Lotus.
It would be a significant change to what an M3 would be like to drive and if hooning around roundabouts looking out the passenger window is your thing then an Exige would probably disappoint as 1. its hard and 2. you'll probably go off eventually. Go try one tho and you'll buy it.
Ive never owned an M3 but have owned several higher powered non M BMWs, and went from a 335i to an S2 Exige 240 (I now have a sport 350). The S2 just doesn't have the torque to get the back moving on corner exit unless you have a decent amount of oversteer when at the apex which you can carry to exit if you have skills and get on the power before it stops rotating. Its a bit easier in the wet, but even less forgiving if it gets too far out of step.
You'll hear complaints that Lotus Elise / Exige understeer badly but thats if you don't commit in corner entry, the light front end can understeer on turn in and mid corner without weight on the nose so you need to trail brake right up to the apex to keep the front loaded and keep the balance mildly towards oversteer, keeping the mild oversteer through corner exit and the wheel straight ahead by steering on throttle is the key to going quickly and is tremendously satisfying if you get it right, but also very challenging and the window to hold it like this very narrow.
The default geo's on the non cup cars generally do have a very mild understeer balance but additional camber and toe out on the front sorts that easily enough. But that really only helps corner entry and mid corner balance. If you are not rotating the car on corner entry and carrying that rotation to exit it will generally always understeer on exit unless grip levels are low, and then you are a mere lift/dab of the brakes away from snap oversteer which is how people usually crash them. I.e. coming out of a bend understeering and meeting an obstacle requiring a reduction in speed.
The general feel of the car is very direct and it provides huge feedback on what all the 4 corners are doing, braking is astonishing, I've been on track with well driven M3's and braking points in comparison are of an order of multiples of car lengths later than almost anything else thats not a Caterham or another Lotus.
It would be a significant change to what an M3 would be like to drive and if hooning around roundabouts looking out the passenger window is your thing then an Exige would probably disappoint as 1. its hard and 2. you'll probably go off eventually. Go try one tho and you'll buy it.
Thanks all some really good feedback
I do love the M3, but GTRene has said exactly how I felt about the car when I first owned it coming from a Megane RS (Which is a fool proof hatch back really). The weight, having to go silly quick etc are all things that annoyed me about it for months before I started to love it. I got used to the engine torque after a while and just learned to compensate with revs having come from turbo fart box hatches. I did like exiting corners on an angle but I think thats just what the M3 is about, almost feel like it was one way of enjoying the car when there was limited space available. I never drove like that before owning an M3 and I could easily live without it
Sounds like the Exige would be a riot and I'd need some serious time to learn the car properly. I was expecting the Exige to be fairly rapid as well? Certainly in supercharged forms.
Will see if the M3 sells anyway, have a couple of viewings this weekend.
I do love the M3, but GTRene has said exactly how I felt about the car when I first owned it coming from a Megane RS (Which is a fool proof hatch back really). The weight, having to go silly quick etc are all things that annoyed me about it for months before I started to love it. I got used to the engine torque after a while and just learned to compensate with revs having come from turbo fart box hatches. I did like exiting corners on an angle but I think thats just what the M3 is about, almost feel like it was one way of enjoying the car when there was limited space available. I never drove like that before owning an M3 and I could easily live without it
Sounds like the Exige would be a riot and I'd need some serious time to learn the car properly. I was expecting the Exige to be fairly rapid as well? Certainly in supercharged forms.
Will see if the M3 sells anyway, have a couple of viewings this weekend.
The s2 Exige is savagely quick up to about 100 and has huge mechanical grip in the dry on the right tyres. The standard suspension is completely un flappable on the UKs crappy roads and gives you huge confidence that it'll stick regardless of how lumpy the surface gets. Coming from the 335i it was the thing that blew me away the most, how composed and controlled the car is even in the crappiest most undulating roads. On a twisty B road there are few cars that could stay with it. German super saloons and hatches are too firmly sprung and become floaty and or skittish on lumpy roads and you just end up s
tting yourself and backing off and constantly worrying whats round the corner.
The standard suspension does run out of support a bit on track but you do need to be pressing on and be capable of extracting the performance from the car before you notice. There are well trodden paths for suspension upgrades to help give you more support on track but they compromise the absolutely sublime setup of the standard car which is road focused.
Until you've driven one its limits you'll not really understand how good they actually are.
Of course there are lots of things that are a pain in the arse about them but they are simple, cheap to run (compared to an M3) and the main components, Engine, Gearbox, suspension are tough to take prolonged track abuse.
I did 6 track events per year on mine usually half days, and basically stayed out till I run out of fuel, refuelled and went back out till I ran out again. No brake fade, tyres don't melt or wear away. Annual budget for consumables and servicing generally 1-2k per year depending on if tyres and disks needed doing.
tting yourself and backing off and constantly worrying whats round the corner.The standard suspension does run out of support a bit on track but you do need to be pressing on and be capable of extracting the performance from the car before you notice. There are well trodden paths for suspension upgrades to help give you more support on track but they compromise the absolutely sublime setup of the standard car which is road focused.
Until you've driven one its limits you'll not really understand how good they actually are.
Of course there are lots of things that are a pain in the arse about them but they are simple, cheap to run (compared to an M3) and the main components, Engine, Gearbox, suspension are tough to take prolonged track abuse.
I did 6 track events per year on mine usually half days, and basically stayed out till I run out of fuel, refuelled and went back out till I ran out again. No brake fade, tyres don't melt or wear away. Annual budget for consumables and servicing generally 1-2k per year depending on if tyres and disks needed doing.
I went the other way.
In summary, they are SOOO different.
The reason I changed was that I was fed up with no radio, the windscreen fogging and the general rawness - not helped by harnesses only.
I regretted it but only because it cost me so much (if I kept the Exige I would have made $$!).
The Exige S2 S will be rapid as you say - up to 90ish.
Beyond that it runs out of puff vs larger-engined cars (I found this out on the track not on the road!!).
What I loved about the M3 was that you could relax in luxury with an amazing stereo, comfy seats and stealth looks. But when you wanted to drive like a hooligan - the beast would happily step up!
With the Exige you were in a go-cart 100% of the time.
Tiring on long journeys because of the noise and vibration (with only a stock pipe), but fantastic for a weekend blast on an A-road.
Both cars were on my bucket list so I am very happy to have owned both but really they are very very different propositions.
In summary, they are SOOO different.
The reason I changed was that I was fed up with no radio, the windscreen fogging and the general rawness - not helped by harnesses only.
I regretted it but only because it cost me so much (if I kept the Exige I would have made $$!).
The Exige S2 S will be rapid as you say - up to 90ish.
Beyond that it runs out of puff vs larger-engined cars (I found this out on the track not on the road!!).
What I loved about the M3 was that you could relax in luxury with an amazing stereo, comfy seats and stealth looks. But when you wanted to drive like a hooligan - the beast would happily step up!
With the Exige you were in a go-cart 100% of the time.
Tiring on long journeys because of the noise and vibration (with only a stock pipe), but fantastic for a weekend blast on an A-road.
Both cars were on my bucket list so I am very happy to have owned both but really they are very very different propositions.
I've not owned an M3, but I do run an Exige S2 every day. For a while I ran both the Exige and an Impreza STI (Hawkeye 316bhp with prodrive pack) and my go to car for a blast would always be the Lotus. The one thing that I did miss in the Exige was the mid-range poke. The Supercharged Exiges are better in this respect (mine is an Exige 190), but even so you might sometimes find yourself wishing for a bit more under your foot in the 30-70mph range.
Other than that the Exige is certainly an event. Just getting into the thing is like dropping into a racing cockpit, you don't get into an Exige you put it on. The steering is very direct, you'll discover that even the best roads are a lot rougher than you realised.
You'll also wish you were in a bigger car in traffic and driving in the dark takes a bit more concentration. Other than that, I'd recommend it. The other great thing is that they're cheap to run. Small Japanese engine, not much in the way of electronics, nice simple wishbone suspension, simple braking system and very light on consumables. Plus you'll probably see the value creep up a bit; I paid £18000 for mine 8 years ago on a low mileage, probably worth £22-23k now.
Other than that the Exige is certainly an event. Just getting into the thing is like dropping into a racing cockpit, you don't get into an Exige you put it on. The steering is very direct, you'll discover that even the best roads are a lot rougher than you realised.
You'll also wish you were in a bigger car in traffic and driving in the dark takes a bit more concentration. Other than that, I'd recommend it. The other great thing is that they're cheap to run. Small Japanese engine, not much in the way of electronics, nice simple wishbone suspension, simple braking system and very light on consumables. Plus you'll probably see the value creep up a bit; I paid £18000 for mine 8 years ago on a low mileage, probably worth £22-23k now.
Great cars, the only downsides of living with one as a daily, from my view, windscreens can be difficult to clear with a lot of condensation on the inside, brakes stick on if left unused for a couple of days and it's been damp (neither of these would be an issue if garaged,). Headlights are appalling, this was a real issue for me and was one of the reasons I moved from a 350 sport to a 400 evora which had xenons.
Some interesting comments here, exactly what I was after thanks
I sold the M3 and I regret it big time actually. I've got an old Fiat 500 daily now which although terrible has cost me £0 (literally nothing to insure tax) and is starting to grow on me.
I have been thinking about the Lotus thing and given the comments on here I am wondering if Its the wrong car for me, my intended use for a 2nd car (Be it another E92 M3 or Lotus) is during better weather use it to get to work and back and have some fun while doing it. Its a trip down a motorway for 10-15 miles then a few miles of nice B-roads which will often be congested at rush hour with the occasional opportunity to really open it up.
So thats 30 mins potentially stuck at 70mph or in a jam in a Lotus, then maybe just maybe some nice roads to have fun but probably stuck doing 40% of the speed limit behind someone in a Pugeot 207 trying to save 50p of fuel.
It also means saving for a year with no fun car to get into an Exige S given the prices have firmed up, I also dont want a car thats going to appreciate in value. I just want to enjoy it.
Another thought, I had a Megane RS 275 for a while which was sublime at 10/10ths and frustrating the rest of the time hence why I sold it. Opportunities to get it working at 10/10ths were rare during daily driving
I sold the M3 and I regret it big time actually. I've got an old Fiat 500 daily now which although terrible has cost me £0 (literally nothing to insure tax) and is starting to grow on me.
I have been thinking about the Lotus thing and given the comments on here I am wondering if Its the wrong car for me, my intended use for a 2nd car (Be it another E92 M3 or Lotus) is during better weather use it to get to work and back and have some fun while doing it. Its a trip down a motorway for 10-15 miles then a few miles of nice B-roads which will often be congested at rush hour with the occasional opportunity to really open it up.
So thats 30 mins potentially stuck at 70mph or in a jam in a Lotus, then maybe just maybe some nice roads to have fun but probably stuck doing 40% of the speed limit behind someone in a Pugeot 207 trying to save 50p of fuel.
It also means saving for a year with no fun car to get into an Exige S given the prices have firmed up, I also dont want a car thats going to appreciate in value. I just want to enjoy it.
Another thought, I had a Megane RS 275 for a while which was sublime at 10/10ths and frustrating the rest of the time hence why I sold it. Opportunities to get it working at 10/10ths were rare during daily driving
ah, hm...
then you need a Z3M ;-) , best with V8 and 18 inch wheels and a bit lowered, say with some coilovers,
its a lovely mix, not as racecar all the time as a Lotus,
but a good drivers car and a timeless classic, looks also good wherever you go.
its not a Lotus, but a good companion.
then you need a Z3M ;-) , best with V8 and 18 inch wheels and a bit lowered, say with some coilovers,
its a lovely mix, not as racecar all the time as a Lotus,
but a good drivers car and a timeless classic, looks also good wherever you go.
its not a Lotus, but a good companion.
How about an elise? This one is a claimed 140hp. I like the look of it. It's cheap so may go buy it and keep it a while to see what the Lotus thing is all about.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I think an exige s2 s is too expensive for me to have sat about as a 2nd car where an Elise makes a bit more sense. Given the price although the supercharged ones are into exige s2 money. If I could find an Elise k20 I'd probably buy one. I am tempted by a 111s or 111r as well but the r again is expensive.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I think an exige s2 s is too expensive for me to have sat about as a 2nd car where an Elise makes a bit more sense. Given the price although the supercharged ones are into exige s2 money. If I could find an Elise k20 I'd probably buy one. I am tempted by a 111s or 111r as well but the r again is expensive.
MikeGoodwin said:
How about an elise? This one is a claimed 140hp. I like the look of it. It's cheap so may go buy it and keep it a while to see what the Lotus thing is all about.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I think an exige s2 s is too expensive for me to have sat about as a 2nd car where an Elise makes a bit more sense. Given the price although the supercharged ones are into exige s2 money. If I could find an Elise k20 I'd probably buy one. I am tempted by a 111s or 111r as well but the r again is expensive.
PH and SELOC usually have the better cars for sale, they really are enthusiasts cars and should have a detailed up-keep from work done (either by specialist or owner who can spanner). Autotrader usually has the cars that have come in as trade against something else or the cars someone has bought on a whim and put up for sale shortly after. Not always, just from my own experience. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I think an exige s2 s is too expensive for me to have sat about as a 2nd car where an Elise makes a bit more sense. Given the price although the supercharged ones are into exige s2 money. If I could find an Elise k20 I'd probably buy one. I am tempted by a 111s or 111r as well but the r again is expensive.
Regarding the car in the add, it’s probably worth joining SELOC and putting a thread up to see anyone knows the car. Looks like it’s had quite a bit of upgrades so someone mat know it and give feedback. Finally, put a ‘Wanted’ add up stating spec/variant/budget etc that you want, that’s how I got my current Elise from SELOC…. Be prepared to travel too!
My two pence anyway regarding getting the right car.
I'd suggest you should probably do some research, and work out which one ticks the boxes, sign up to SELOC and blag some local passenger rides. A k series rover Elise is a very different beast from a supercharged Toyota Exige, despite appearances being 90% similar, both have their pros and cons, just whichever floats your boat. Having owned both, both are a blast but in very different ways, just be warned once you get the bug, you'll not go back to a regular car in a hurry.
MikeGoodwin said:
I think an exige s2 s is too expensive for me to have sat about as a 2nd car where an Elise makes a bit more sense. Given the price although the supercharged ones are into exige s2 money. If I could find an Elise k20 I'd probably buy one. I am tempted by a 111s or 111r as well but the r again is expensive.
This is the primary reason I've stuck to my VX220 - cost / performance ratio (and I don't want to start the whole Elise vs. VX debate!). I can't justify an S2 Exige (although I've always wanted one) as it sits out side my flat 75% of the time, when the VX does 95% of the same thing (I use Exige suspension, geo, ABS and wheel / tyre specs), but actually has more accessible performance due to its supercharged 2.2 (mine is technically 2.0 now, but is more responsive) engine, on the road at least, uses cheap GM bits (no weak gearboxes!) and there are plenty tuning options available. I kept trying to convince myself the Exige was what I really needed, but for effectively double the price (~£12-13k for a decent converted VX vs. ~£24-25k for a OEM Exige S), I was only really getting a slightly newer car (they are all old now anyway!) and the Exige body, which is subjective. Oh, and the badge..
VX's are not loosing money, so I can leave it outside collecting leaves, seagull sh*t and paint osmosis in a relatively guilt-free fashion..Interestingly I just bought a Megane 250 (Cup pack, with tweaked engine) as my DD. Its fine for me daily, and in many ways it feel more hardcore than my VX with Exige suspenders!
MikeGoodwin said:
How about an elise? This one is a claimed 140hp. I like the look of it. It's cheap so may go buy it and keep it a while to see what the Lotus thing is all about.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I think an exige s2 s is too expensive for me to have sat about as a 2nd car where an Elise makes a bit more sense. Given the price although the supercharged ones are into exige s2 money. If I could find an Elise k20 I'd probably buy one. I am tempted by a 111s or 111r as well but the r again is expensive.
Why not try a Boxster / Cayman which would probably cover your run to work better while still being okay for the back road blast.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I think an exige s2 s is too expensive for me to have sat about as a 2nd car where an Elise makes a bit more sense. Given the price although the supercharged ones are into exige s2 money. If I could find an Elise k20 I'd probably buy one. I am tempted by a 111s or 111r as well but the r again is expensive.
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