Rebuild Time....

Rebuild Time....

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Sagi Badger

589 posts

192 months

Friday 27th January 2017
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[quote=Willfin]I did replace the needle bearing in the block but didn't take a photo! I had the oil pump bearings replaced by a local garage as I don't have a press. Thanks for the advice on the oil pump, I'll take another look at that to make sure it's correctly aligned, although i think the body only fits into the block one way.

I also had a go at replacing the water pump bearings yesterday and made a right arse of it! lol It's quite tricky as the body isn't square and looks like it needs shimmed to align to a press. I duly had a go and cracked the housing! Luckily I had a spare which is now in the post to Powers to let someone with the experience of replacing the bearings carry out that work.



The HP pump bearings can be replace without a press, they are not normally tight, and yes it does only go in one way, but, it doesn't have register dowels so the clearance holes for the bolts allow it to move around ever so slightly. Just try rotating a dozen times slowly it and check it doesn't bind. The water pumps are tricky. I warmed the body in the oven (I have my own oven in the man cave since I got caught baking manifolds to cure ceramic coatings) and froze the shaft, even then it takes some thinking about as the body is fragile.

I notice in your sealing the sump on pic the sealer doesn't run on both faces of the block all the way to the timing case, just pointing out in case you missed it as it would leak under the HP pump otherwise and better sorted now than when in the car. The mating faces here don't align very well either so you need to be sure you have sealed on the right side of the block. If you are taking the sump back off, leave it off until you are ready to fit the chains. You can leave the ring dowel out at the front of the engine to get adjustment on the scavenge pump chain, there is no adjustment otherwise and also anything that is dropped down a return oil way will be easily retrieved.

Be vary careful with sealer, especially old sealer on oil gallery plugs. I take all the gallery plugs out and spend time cleaning and re-cleaning the galleries, not so easy with the crank in but even so if you take them out either end of the block you will be able to see right through the main gallery and blow it through. The plugs that fill the main bearing oilway drill holes could be removed but with the crank in you wont gain much now.

Hope you don't mind me pointing this out.

Cheers

J

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Monday 30th January 2017
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J, I don't mind at all. Thanks for pointing out the missing gasket on the sump, I'll rectify that when fitting the chains.

I've double checked the oil pump and I'm happy it doesn't bind, seems to turn very freely, again good point made with it not being dowelled.

So I've got on with a few more jobs.....

Fitted the oil feed for the half time roller bearings, all tight and thread locked, certainly appears a much better bearing and lube system than standard.





Next, and before fitting the head, i used a dial test indicator on piston number 6, to find Top Dead Centre. I managed to source a timing wheel from the states and a nice piece of coat hanger to reference from! So with the DTI, a point was noted when the piston started moving the dial, and then again when it it finally stopped registering on the dial. The exact midpoint between the two was noted as being TDC. The wheel was marked at zero and then double and treble checked before marking the other end of the crank. Happy.



Then it was time to unpack the head, I must say it looks a very precise and well made piece of kit. The finish inside the ports is super smooth and well shaped.











The head was torqued down first to 40 lbs/ft and then 75 lbs/ft, which is a little less than when using head bolts. Then undo and re-torque tomorrow.

Next is to fit the cams and get it all chained and timed up!


Edited by Willfin on Tuesday 31st January 19:10

RedSpike66

2,336 posts

211 months

Tuesday 31st January 2017
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Mmmmmmm.... looks rather nice that head.... Still got Racing Green plastered all over it LoL.. YOu'd have thought TVR-Parts would have had that bit machined off !!!

Couple of questions..
1. Did Dom paint the block after blasting it ? Looks very silver and shiney .. different to the head !
2. Have you thought about what you're doing about the ECU map for the very first start and the running in miles (1000miles) ? The head uses different cams, directly OHC with buckets and a different cam profile and timing I would imagine. Also you have 4.2L and a more easily breathing head....
3. I'm not an engine builder, but I was reading about lubricants to use when building an engine, and pre-torquing things up once, twice, three times etc. undoing fully each time before final assembley, and then there's the running in miles, using god knows what oil with without ZDDP etc. and not letting it idle - tun at 2000+ rpm straight from the off - scared the hell out of me about what could wrong and I'm not building it !!!!

Matthew Poxon

5,329 posts

172 months

Tuesday 31st January 2017
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I saw this on TVR Power's Facebook page. Obviously no mention of the FFF wink

Looks like a great build with the TVR power bottom end and FFF heads.

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Tuesday 31st January 2017
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Yes I do like the look of how shiny it all looks too! I would also have thought they would have removed the RG reference, although they did also give me a RG cam cover badge.....which I won't be using.

Dom did blast it and paint, but not only that he stripped the whole block after having it sent down fully assembled from Hexham after being removed from my car. I can't thank Dom enough really, he's been superb in all of my dealings, as well as Andy Mosey his parts/store manager. Both top blokes. The head is just fresh out of the casting and isn't painted, so will deteriorate over time, like the block will really.

For the purpose of the run in, Dom has done a 4.3 chip for me, which will be fitted into my ECU by Hexham. The run in will only be generally part throttle and taking it easy, although I may well go to a local rolling road just to make sure its not running lean/rich. It probably wont run perfectly but will suffice for the run in. Once run in then it will get the new MBE fitted.

Yeah during assembly everything gets coated in engine build lube, very liberally! Ive also got a tub of special cam break in lube so ill be covering the cams, bearings and buckets with it. Once the oil circulates it just dissolves into it without a problem. Then an oil change after 500 miles, the first lot of oil being just mineral for break in. The guys at Hexham have started up many a new engine, and your right that it needs to sit at 2500rpm for 20mins, any water/oil leaks etc then the car must be switched off. I just want it in and running now, or even better, run in done and mbe fitted!

Been busy on it today finalising the head torque settings as it needed undone by 1/2 turn then redone to 75lbs after having been fully torqued up yesterday. Ive also now got all of the bottom half chains in place! Hoping to get it to Hexham for refitting next saturday so need to keep going!

Edited by Willfin on Tuesday 31st January 19:11

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Tuesday 31st January 2017
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What!! Taking it out and putting it back in is half the fun... not. spin

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
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Same boat as you Will (except Im doing nothing myself) apart from painting the diff casing and the little things.

Dom took my lump out last week to start the 4.5 Super Sports and yep I'm going with the new AK-MBE too. My run in miles are already planned should have 1000miles in 4 trips (the best one to collect 2 new front tyres 350miles) a pair of NS2-R £77 with 7mm tread... the bay does well (I hope).

Goodluck with yours

Edited by Incognegro on Wednesday 8th February 21:46

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Friday 10th February 2017
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Yeah Matti, the taking out and putting back in was never on my radar, no fun in that!

Incognegro, Im sure you will love that engine package when you get the car back, Dom's machine work and attention to detail is second to none. That is one superb engine package, billet crank, forged pistons and rods and all the other uprated gubbons!

Ive just finished the assembly of the engine, just not had a chance to do an update. The engine has been collected and is being delivered for install at Hexham week after next. Roll on, very nervous!!

So since the last update, i completed the head torque up procedure, which involved undoing each nut one by one half a turn and then re-torquing back to 75lbs ft.

Then all the lower chains were assembled, tightened and pump nuts torqued. The scavenger pump is a strange one as it has no tensioning mechanism, so its as tight as it ends up once the sprocket is slid on, which wasn't easy with the sump on!!

With all the lower chains on, it was time to do the cam install and timing. The new timing values for the FFF2 head are 115.5 inlet, and 107.5 exhaust. Firstly with the cams fitted and crank turned away from TDC to lower all the pistons, the cams were roughly fitted at TDC, which is pointing inwards about 120deg. So then turned crank back to TDC, and fitted the top timing chain.

Then to set the timing, my method was to use a dial test indicator on the follower to find the point of full lift and take note off the crank angle of that full lift position. Then slacken cam sprocket bolts and either advance or retard to get to the required values. This took a few goes and then a few more times to check. Reading a value on the DTI before and after full lift to find the centre, as there is a dwell point on the cam where its neither going up or down. Did this for inlet and then exhaust, always making sure the engine is being turned clockwise to keep the slack of the right side of the chain.

The with all that done, it was time to install the timing cover, damper and cam covers and all done! I foolishly didn't get a picture of it all done in my garage, oh well.

So heres a few of my final assembly pics, now waiting nervously for phone call from Hexham to say the engine is running and all is well, time will tell!!



Simplex chains and cogs.


Simplicity of the head...cam bearing, bucket and head stud.


Everything liberally lubed up..


with this stuff.


And then all assembled and timed up...


Crankshaft damper on. So obvious how much of an afterthought this part is on the engine, doesn't align with the shape of the timing cover at all. When it was decided to be used TVR must have already placed and order for the original cover and just decided to drill it out and fit a little bracket and oil seal!


Cam cover sealed ready to go..


As you can see I used a Varley manual for reference throughout, be invaluable for all of the torque settings.

So the engine is now off for fitting week after next, needs a 4.3 chip & injectors fitted and a couple of other little jobs such as oil fittings, thermostat & crankshaft oil seal plate.

Its been great doing the engine so far, loved being in the garage playing with the tools just hope its all been worthwhile...watch this space!!

Edited by Willfin on Friday 10th February 17:05

Sagi Badger

589 posts

192 months

Friday 10th February 2017
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Paul,

Check the cam cover seal at the back end, the head/cover mating face is forwards of the sealant line in your pic. Also I leave the aux shaft cap head bolt out until I see oil come out when keying over, it proves you have oil through the plain bearing and into the shaft the front bearing.

Looks good mate, hope it all goes in OK.

J

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Friday 10th February 2017
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God advice from John there. I'd also be tempted to be there on first start up to make sure the new cams are broken in properly.

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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Thanks for the advice John.

On the FFF head the sealant mating line followed right at the edge of the cover. Before being torqued up, that's the edge I checked and was happy to see a little sealant spilling out.

I've spoken with Hexham and more than happy that they will follow the advice on the cams. I looked into this a little further and having spoken to a few people I understand that a few specialists think it's an old wives tale and makes no difference!

Cheers guys

Edited by Willfin on Saturday 11th February 09:51

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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I've been taking lots of inspiration for this and the details I'm hearing. I've decided to go with Doms silver engine but the ends (crank damper etc) are going to be black to complement/contrast with the black manifolds.

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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Sounds good! Do love a good engine upgrade

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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Best bits are still to come...my engine build is also factoring in drive by wire plugs for when Dom is ready to release

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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Yeah I'm tempted with some of the extra functions that come with the mbe but unsure if the benefit of that particular change.

Launch and traction for me I think.

Incognegro

1,560 posts

132 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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They both on the way but those stories of snapped cables make me s*** pants. So I'm thinking why not get DbW and it also makes the Cerb even more modern and there is also a feature about how it delivers full throttle where the comp regulates to not just give it everything (as that isn't actually faster) and it delivers the optimum?

Oh then we have to open the wallet again for flatshift

RedSpike66

2,336 posts

211 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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Paul - Fantastic - well done - on the home straight now - I'm quite jealous of your ability to do what you have done ! I just have to pay someone !!

Milky400

1,960 posts

177 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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RedSpike66 said:
Paul - Fantastic - well done - on the home straight now - I'm quite jealous of your ability to do what you have done ! I just have to pay someone !!
What he said, confident to tackle the basics, I have even done complete engine rebuild's on two of my old Calibra's, but for some reason the speed six makes me nervous.

Edited by Milky400 on Saturday 11th February 19:24

Willfin

Original Poster:

295 posts

177 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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Cheers guys. A few little mistakes along the way but quickly sorted.

The speed 6 is really quite a simple engine, if you've done the C20LET engines in a vauxhall you can tackle a TVR no probs.

I did get the help from dom regarding the bottom end, but that work is simple enough, especially when you know the machine work is spot on from Dom.

Milky400

1,960 posts

177 months

Saturday 11th February 2017
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Rebuilt both 8 and 16 valve engines back in the day. To be fair I had a lock up and a vast array of tools back then.

Not sure why I have issues with the speed six, but gave it to Dom last summer to deal with.....