Economics of running new Porsche Cayenne e Hybrid?
Discussion
Hi, I recently put a deposit down on a new Porsche Cayenne (base model) but am tempted to switch the order to an e Hybrid. I figure the premium over the base model works out at about £8000 (as PASM and sports chrono are already included with e hybrid but also needs a £500 charger to be worthwhile).
The variable I can't work out is what fuel/electricity costs are likely to be if we assume 5000 miles of petrol driving and 5000 miles of battery driving per year as a rule of thumb. I've heard real-world estimates of 35 mpg for the e Hybrid but nobody states if that's a cover-all mpg or if I need to add the cost of the electricity to that.
Does anybody have any insight on how to calculate likely fuel and electricity costs for the Cayenne e Hybrid?
I'm not a company car driver so that doesn't factor in.
Also any other insights on experience of running the Cayenne e Hybrid that might help to justify the higher price over the base model would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
The variable I can't work out is what fuel/electricity costs are likely to be if we assume 5000 miles of petrol driving and 5000 miles of battery driving per year as a rule of thumb. I've heard real-world estimates of 35 mpg for the e Hybrid but nobody states if that's a cover-all mpg or if I need to add the cost of the electricity to that.
Does anybody have any insight on how to calculate likely fuel and electricity costs for the Cayenne e Hybrid?
I'm not a company car driver so that doesn't factor in.
Also any other insights on experience of running the Cayenne e Hybrid that might help to justify the higher price over the base model would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
I'm a couple of months into ownership of one of these ....
I'm still 'learning' to get the most out of it ... but as you will know you can get about 20 miles pure electric, or let the car flick between petrol and battery in hybrid mode. You then have sport and sportp plus modes which is just petrol and you can get the car to charge the batteries in this mode. Sport plus does it quicker, but obviously you use more fuel in sport plus.
If i'm lazy, i just drive it in hybrid mode and would get 30 - 35 mpg. If I plan, then I can charge it overnight and then drive either pure electric or hybrid. In this case I get up to 80 - 90 mpg, but after a while the bettery is all gone, so your back to your 30 - 35 mpg on a longish journey. If you drive it like its a porsche, then it goes down to 15 - 20 !!!
Looking at my iphone app which collects the data .. since last refuling, i've done 134 miles with average consumption of 34.4 mpg.
Now the bad news !!
I have a number of 'issues' with the car and its been with the dealers for the last 4 weeks. They have found one fault and replaced the Assistance control unit. However there is still an issue with the Bluetooth not working correctly (phone disconnects when I try to make a call) and the tracker (I keep getting calls from Vodafone to tell me the car is being stolen !!).
The dealer is not being too great at the moment .... and despite providing video evidence, saying there is nothing wrong !! Even though my iphone has been checked by Apple and it connects perfectly to two other new Cayenne's, the dealers are saying its my phone and not the car. They swear that my software is the latest version in the car. Despite my phone working on the other two Cayenne's this means nothing apparently because they are not hybrid's and the system is different .....something I find hard to believe.
As for the tracker, its a system where you have a separate key fob separate to the key. You have to have it in the car to avoid an alert being sent to Vodafone tracker. Despite the fob being kept in either the center glove box or glove box, they are now saying it must be placed in the coin recess in the centre console ... a space thats about 2 inches square. So the system is apparently so sensitive that it must be in this position !!
Hope this helps ....
I'm still 'learning' to get the most out of it ... but as you will know you can get about 20 miles pure electric, or let the car flick between petrol and battery in hybrid mode. You then have sport and sportp plus modes which is just petrol and you can get the car to charge the batteries in this mode. Sport plus does it quicker, but obviously you use more fuel in sport plus.
If i'm lazy, i just drive it in hybrid mode and would get 30 - 35 mpg. If I plan, then I can charge it overnight and then drive either pure electric or hybrid. In this case I get up to 80 - 90 mpg, but after a while the bettery is all gone, so your back to your 30 - 35 mpg on a longish journey. If you drive it like its a porsche, then it goes down to 15 - 20 !!!
Looking at my iphone app which collects the data .. since last refuling, i've done 134 miles with average consumption of 34.4 mpg.
Now the bad news !!
I have a number of 'issues' with the car and its been with the dealers for the last 4 weeks. They have found one fault and replaced the Assistance control unit. However there is still an issue with the Bluetooth not working correctly (phone disconnects when I try to make a call) and the tracker (I keep getting calls from Vodafone to tell me the car is being stolen !!).
The dealer is not being too great at the moment .... and despite providing video evidence, saying there is nothing wrong !! Even though my iphone has been checked by Apple and it connects perfectly to two other new Cayenne's, the dealers are saying its my phone and not the car. They swear that my software is the latest version in the car. Despite my phone working on the other two Cayenne's this means nothing apparently because they are not hybrid's and the system is different .....something I find hard to believe.
As for the tracker, its a system where you have a separate key fob separate to the key. You have to have it in the car to avoid an alert being sent to Vodafone tracker. Despite the fob being kept in either the center glove box or glove box, they are now saying it must be placed in the coin recess in the centre console ... a space thats about 2 inches square. So the system is apparently so sensitive that it must be in this position !!
Hope this helps ....
Thanks for all the info, that's great. Biggles, I imagine that's the last-gen e-Hybrid, hopefully the new one will be a different proposition.
Powling, thanks for the great info. It's helping my ideas to form. Have you tried somebody else's iphone in your car? That might help determine whether the phone or the car is at fault.
So if you only use hybrid mode rather than pure electric, does it still need to be plugged in and recharged? If not, 30-35 mpg is already a good advantage over the base petrol model, which I hear has real-world mpg of around 20-24 mpg.
This is my very rule-of-thumb understanding, which is probably completely wrong so anybody feel free to correct me:
Yearly miles of 10,000 miles:
5000 in hybrid mode at £1.35 per litre and 30-35 mpg: £876.75 to £1022.87 per year.
5000 in pure electric: about £500 a year on my household electricity bill (a pretty wild estimate, not sure how to calculate this).
As opposed to standard petrol Cayenne:
10,000 miles at 23 mpg at £1.35 per litre: £2668.36 per year.
Powling, thanks for the great info. It's helping my ideas to form. Have you tried somebody else's iphone in your car? That might help determine whether the phone or the car is at fault.
So if you only use hybrid mode rather than pure electric, does it still need to be plugged in and recharged? If not, 30-35 mpg is already a good advantage over the base petrol model, which I hear has real-world mpg of around 20-24 mpg.
This is my very rule-of-thumb understanding, which is probably completely wrong so anybody feel free to correct me:
Yearly miles of 10,000 miles:
5000 in hybrid mode at £1.35 per litre and 30-35 mpg: £876.75 to £1022.87 per year.
5000 in pure electric: about £500 a year on my household electricity bill (a pretty wild estimate, not sure how to calculate this).
As opposed to standard petrol Cayenne:
10,000 miles at 23 mpg at £1.35 per litre: £2668.36 per year.
I looked at buying a previous gen Hybrid. The only way it works (I think) is if a decent amount of your journeys can be done pure electric which is a range of about 20 miles...so if your commute is that long and you can charge at work it starts to make sense. Unless you get the tax breaks I really don’t see the advantage is really that great.
Came to the conclusion better to wait for electric car with proper range that isn’t a Tesla. I am sure fairly quickly after Taycan we’ll get electric Cayenne and Macan.
Came to the conclusion better to wait for electric car with proper range that isn’t a Tesla. I am sure fairly quickly after Taycan we’ll get electric Cayenne and Macan.
Yes, funnily enough, I just told the sales exec I was on the fence about the e hybrid and he pointed out that with electric Macans and Cayennes coming at some point, the e hybrid could be in an awkward area.
I think with that in mind, and the reduced boot space, heavier weight and inconvenience of plugging in every day for the sake of 20 miles on electric, I'm not sure I'd get the best value out of it. The standard Cayenne would be simpler for now, and hopefully there will be some good electric SUV options coming out for next time.
I think with that in mind, and the reduced boot space, heavier weight and inconvenience of plugging in every day for the sake of 20 miles on electric, I'm not sure I'd get the best value out of it. The standard Cayenne would be simpler for now, and hopefully there will be some good electric SUV options coming out for next time.
In reply ...
Have you tried somebody else's iphone in your car? That might help determine whether the phone or the car is at fault. - Yep been there done that !!! Ive tried all options of my phone in other cars, other phones in my car etc ... all still points to the car. Today, I even managed to try my phone in another 2018 hybrid and it failed. Given that my phone worked in two 2019 Cayenne's my own gut feeling is that its a faulty/incompatible bluetooth module in the the car, possible a batch of 2018 cars. I cant see ho wit can be software related as all the cars are running the same versions of software.
So if you only use hybrid mode rather than pure electric, does it still need to be plugged in and recharged? - No, even with no battery, you could run it in hybrid mode and the car will switch automatically to electric when it has regenerated some. Interestingly, it even does it before the gauge has registered that it has regenerated one mile.
gls5000 said:
Thanks for all the info, that's great. Biggles, I imagine that's the last-gen e-Hybrid, hopefully the new one will be a different proposition.
Powling, thanks for the great info. It's helping my ideas to form. Have you tried somebody else's iphone in your car? That might help determine whether the phone or the car is at fault.
So if you only use hybrid mode rather than pure electric, does it still need to be plugged in and recharged? If not, 30-35 mpg is already a good advantage over the base petrol model, which I hear has real-world mpg of around 20-24 mpg.
This is my very rule-of-thumb understanding, which is probably completely wrong so anybody feel free to correct me:
Yearly miles of 10,000 miles:
5000 in hybrid mode at £1.35 per litre and 30-35 mpg: £876.75 to £1022.87 per year.
5000 in pure electric: about £500 a year on my household electricity bill (a pretty wild estimate, not sure how to calculate this).
As opposed to standard petrol Cayenne:
10,000 miles at 23 mpg at £1.35 per litre: £2668.36 per year.
The maths is about right, based on my experience of two hybrids in past 4yrs - a merc & a 3series.Powling, thanks for the great info. It's helping my ideas to form. Have you tried somebody else's iphone in your car? That might help determine whether the phone or the car is at fault.
So if you only use hybrid mode rather than pure electric, does it still need to be plugged in and recharged? If not, 30-35 mpg is already a good advantage over the base petrol model, which I hear has real-world mpg of around 20-24 mpg.
This is my very rule-of-thumb understanding, which is probably completely wrong so anybody feel free to correct me:
Yearly miles of 10,000 miles:
5000 in hybrid mode at £1.35 per litre and 30-35 mpg: £876.75 to £1022.87 per year.
5000 in pure electric: about £500 a year on my household electricity bill (a pretty wild estimate, not sure how to calculate this).
As opposed to standard petrol Cayenne:
10,000 miles at 23 mpg at £1.35 per litre: £2668.36 per year.
Neither unfortunately came to anywhere near the manufacturer claimed e-miles range but i estimate i save approx £800-900 on petrol per yr for each car, but plugging in every night & sometimes during the day too, & averaging 9-10k per yr.
For porsche, it's more about the boost in performance rather than the economy - the savings are a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of the car, depreciation , insurance etc.
I've read too that the e-hybrid gives a better brake than the base, which is experiencing a 'lurching' stop due to stop-start programming issue & of course the equivalent S performance.
Viewed as a means of luxury transport the E-Hybrid is magnificent. Viewed as a way to save on petrol it’s more marginal. We plug ours in using the slow-charge overnight - in our modest first 500miles we’ve covered half on electricity only. The integration of the petrol engine and electric motor in hybrid mode is utterly wonderful as far as I am concerned and it’s worth noting the Bentley Bentagya (spelling not my strong point?) uses the same running gear...at the end of the day the Cayenne hybrid is much better put together than a Range Rover, plays friendly on our school run and becomes an effortless speedking on the motorway with huge torque. Broadly speaking you could say I absolutely love it.
jh001 said:
The display on mine says 22 miles when fully charged, in reality, to and from town I get about 18 I guess, however, even when it says ‘e-power is no longer available‘ it does manage to do a few more miles if driven conservatively.
you are lucky; mine reads 24miles but i end up with 14 on a mix urban/highway run.However, if i activate the climate on timer set via the app, i can a lot more on proviso that it is connected to the power supply in the garage.
i enter the car all 4 seats warmed, 22degrees & with 22miles range!
having said that, the my connect app is absolute pants & buggy.
Just want to say thanks for all the replies to my post. I did go for the petrol in the end and picked it up in November. Apart from a couple of first-week niggles (needed hard reset to communicate with my phone, and a door light fell out), it's been an absolute joy to own and drive. The truffle brown club leather is expensive but I'm definitely glad I went for it as it feels as luxurious and premium as it should for a car of this price.
It certainly does guzzle the fuel; the less efficient trips in town have been as low as 12 mpg, going up to 29 mpg on a good, leisurely run. Averaging 22 mpg in the first 2000 miles.
I still wonder if I should've got an e-Hybrid but some issues played on my mind such as reduced wading depth and reduced boot size. I'm hoping, with the Taycan leading the way, there will be some good pure-electric options to follow when I eventually change in a few years.
It certainly does guzzle the fuel; the less efficient trips in town have been as low as 12 mpg, going up to 29 mpg on a good, leisurely run. Averaging 22 mpg in the first 2000 miles.
I still wonder if I should've got an e-Hybrid but some issues played on my mind such as reduced wading depth and reduced boot size. I'm hoping, with the Taycan leading the way, there will be some good pure-electric options to follow when I eventually change in a few years.
Tforme said:
Good tip on the climate pre-set. Yes on colder days a liberal use of the heater, heated seats (and steering wheel - I love this) sees more like the mid teens on electric only. I bet that improves in the spring and summer. Right let’s master the app climate pre-set whilst on charge!
there's actually ability to programme climate timings via PCM rather than app; the app is horrendously unreliable (for me, don't know why). When subscription runs out, i really don't see any benefit of the my connect services.gls5000 said:
It certainly does guzzle the fuel; the less efficient trips in town have been as low as 12 mpg, going up to 29 mpg on a good, leisurely run. Averaging 22 mpg in the first 2000 miles
If yours is anything like my S, economy will improve markedly once the engine loosens up with miles. For the fIrst few thousand miles, ours wouldn’t do better than 29-30mpg even on a constant 70mph motorway trip. Now at 10k miles it happily averages 33mpg on longer trips. Today I drove it back from its first service at Reading and managed 37mpg! Mind you, a good chunk of that was at 50mph on the M4 with average speed cameras, but it has definitely improved with age.
pete said:
If yours is anything like my S, economy will improve markedly once the engine loosens up with miles. For the fIrst few thousand miles, ours wouldn’t do better than 29-30mpg even on a constant 70mph motorway trip. Now at 10k miles it happily averages 33mpg on longer trips.
Today I drove it back from its first service at Reading and managed 37mpg! Mind you, a good chunk of that was at 50mph on the M4 with average speed cameras, but it has definitely improved with age.
interesting you should say that, i just had oil/filter change at 6k for my own piece of mind, my ehybrid now averaging 42mpg ; previously mid-30s.Today I drove it back from its first service at Reading and managed 37mpg! Mind you, a good chunk of that was at 50mph on the M4 with average speed cameras, but it has definitely improved with age.
i plug in to the wall at end of the day & uplug next morning; no other charging. Seems a simple regime.
Avg 10k mile per annum, usually much more spirited drives on weekends to our farm in the countryside, hence the need for SUV.
btw, i only get 17miles on full charge showing; a lot others in this forum are getting 20-22.
Cheib said:
I looked at buying a previous gen Hybrid. The only way it works (I think) is if a decent amount of your journeys can be done pure electric which is a range of about 20 miles...so if your commute is that long and you can charge at work it starts to make sense. Unless you get the tax breaks I really don’t see the advantage is really that great.
Came to the conclusion better to wait for electric car with proper range that isn’t a Tesla. I am sure fairly quickly after Taycan we’ll get electric Cayenne and Macan.
I agree. Although not Porsche I have a Mini E-Hybrid as the runabout. Most journey are within the 20-25 mile E-Range so only cost is the electricity I use. Came to the conclusion better to wait for electric car with proper range that isn’t a Tesla. I am sure fairly quickly after Taycan we’ll get electric Cayenne and Macan.
Have used 4 tanks of petrol since November
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