Electrics/ventilation specialist?
Discussion
A slightly unusual request, but I thought this forum would fit - mods, please move if not.
I've finally tracked down a retrofit ventilation kit, which was made by Webasto for BMW.
It's essentially an array of 6 PC-cooler type fans, a voltage converter, supercapacitors and a controller.
Can anyone recommend a place that would be able to upgrade some of these components, eg the fans?
I thought PC builder places might, but they all seem to be very specialised
some photos
I've finally tracked down a retrofit ventilation kit, which was made by Webasto for BMW.
It's essentially an array of 6 PC-cooler type fans, a voltage converter, supercapacitors and a controller.
Can anyone recommend a place that would be able to upgrade some of these components, eg the fans?
I thought PC builder places might, but they all seem to be very specialised
some photos
Edited by 4004 on Wednesday 12th May 18:38
I don't know what you are trying to do but sites like RS & CPC/Farnell stock lots of PC type fans - Papst are a good brand:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/b/ebm-papst/
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/b/ebm-papst/
What does the whole thing do? And why does it need all the extra electrics? (I've run pc fans wired straight into the car @ 13.4v approx when running to cool amplifiers for years with no problems.)
And - what are you trying to achieve with it? Is it working at the moment? Noise reduction? PC fans are available in a wide range of flavours, but those look quite small, so increased airflow will generally come at the cost of increased noise - it doesn't look like you have room to go larger, which is the number one choice.
Their specs are usually listed to help your choose... the main difference as I understand it is either case fans which try and flow plenty of volume, or heatsink fans which push less air, but push it harder (someone will be along to correct my very simple/wrong comments soon, I'm sure
)
And - what are you trying to achieve with it? Is it working at the moment? Noise reduction? PC fans are available in a wide range of flavours, but those look quite small, so increased airflow will generally come at the cost of increased noise - it doesn't look like you have room to go larger, which is the number one choice.
Their specs are usually listed to help your choose... the main difference as I understand it is either case fans which try and flow plenty of volume, or heatsink fans which push less air, but push it harder (someone will be along to correct my very simple/wrong comments soon, I'm sure
)It essentially just runs the fans, most of the electrics are for power management on the solar cells which feed the whole thing.
It was working last time I tested it. My (fairly limited) understanding led me to believe I can have both noise reduction and more airflow, as fan design has advanced since 2004. If that's too optimistic, I can do with less noise, as the amount of airflow is ok as is.
You're right there isn't much room to go larger, and I'd rather not modify the case as that will bring along other challenges.
I think this would be limited by max wattage/size, which is another reason I want to give it to someone who knows more about this.
Although I have done some PC tinkering, it was mostly PnP. This thing is quite rare, so I'm really not willing to have a go myself and mess it up
It was working last time I tested it. My (fairly limited) understanding led me to believe I can have both noise reduction and more airflow, as fan design has advanced since 2004. If that's too optimistic, I can do with less noise, as the amount of airflow is ok as is.
You're right there isn't much room to go larger, and I'd rather not modify the case as that will bring along other challenges.
I think this would be limited by max wattage/size, which is another reason I want to give it to someone who knows more about this.
Although I have done some PC tinkering, it was mostly PnP. This thing is quite rare, so I'm really not willing to have a go myself and mess it up
Have a look at (3 pin) Noctua fans for a good balance of quality/price/silence/flow. They will start up on low voltages as well.
The rest of the electrics will be beyond me... I'd just check the voltage arriving at the original fans to make sure it's somewhere between 5v - 12v(ish), which should be ok for most modern fans.
The rest of the electrics will be beyond me... I'd just check the voltage arriving at the original fans to make sure it's somewhere between 5v - 12v(ish), which should be ok for most modern fans.
yep, I remember Noctua from my PC building days.
This was actually another thing I was unsure of: are consumer (ie PC type, eg Noctua, BeQuiet) fans better (more efficienct/quiter etc) than industrial (eg ebm Papst) fans?
Technology in tubeaxials seems to be very similar, so is all the difference down to who has more IP44+ models in the range?
This was actually another thing I was unsure of: are consumer (ie PC type, eg Noctua, BeQuiet) fans better (more efficienct/quiter etc) than industrial (eg ebm Papst) fans?
Technology in tubeaxials seems to be very similar, so is all the difference down to who has more IP44+ models in the range?
Out of interest, what car is this for? Is it for a motorhome (you mentioned solar panels)?
Edit: huh, TIL, looks like there is a kit for BMW http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2342...
https://shop.bmw.co.uk/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/BMWUK-219...
I guess this is it then.
Edit: huh, TIL, looks like there is a kit for BMW http://www.zhpmafia.com/forums/showthread.php?2342...
https://shop.bmw.co.uk/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/BMWUK-219...
I guess this is it then.
Edited by drdino on Wednesday 19th May 10:53
So 6 little pc fans circulating hot air around the cabin cools the interior of the car? Where does the hot air go to? It's still in the car. Benefit sounds extremely negligible. Anyway, just replace with high flow Noctua or similar fans. All you need is a soldering iron, very simple.
4004 said:
The sun roof is cracked open, drawing out the hot exhaust. I don't have a soldering iron, and don't want to get one just to muck up a bit of kit I will likely never find again.
Noctua industrial fans start at 120mm from what I see, they won't fit in the enclosure
What size are the fans ?Noctua industrial fans start at 120mm from what I see, they won't fit in the enclosure
You can get 80mm in normal noctuta fans
If they are smaller then that they are probably useless
The fans are of a somewhat odd size, 70mm x 15mm thickness, I'm not sure how much choice there is for that size.
They plug into the board - white connectors in the photos.
There might be space to go 80mm, but that would then require case modification (hard plastic), so likely fewer places that would take it on
They plug into the board - white connectors in the photos.
There might be space to go 80mm, but that would then require case modification (hard plastic), so likely fewer places that would take it on
Edited by 4004 on Thursday 20th May 12:17
The only part number I can see is "030811KA", which is likely Webasto's internal p/n. They don't want to talk about products they did as OEMs, and I very much doubt they will give me info on the part.
I've remeasured the fan properly, and it's 70x15 which is more widespread, but still not getting as much choice as with an 80mm (also means fancy features like temp sensors are out of the question)
Hm, there is actually a temp controlled fan, but it's obviously set for higher temperatures of a PC case and not programmable. This might need a separate controller and pwm fans
I've remeasured the fan properly, and it's 70x15 which is more widespread, but still not getting as much choice as with an 80mm (also means fancy features like temp sensors are out of the question)
Hm, there is actually a temp controlled fan, but it's obviously set for higher temperatures of a PC case and not programmable. This might need a separate controller and pwm fans
Edited by 4004 on Thursday 20th May 20:32
Having done further research, the main stumbling point for fitting new fans is that no retail fans in that size offer IP44+.
I've been told by some OEMs they do IP rates fans for specific applications and not for retail, so finding them is tough.
If anyone knows of a suitable fan let me know
I've been told by some OEMs they do IP rates fans for specific applications and not for retail, so finding them is tough.
If anyone knows of a suitable fan let me know
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