Multiple car overtakes
Discussion
MC Bodge said:
Who's to say that the Jazz isn't being driven by somebody other than the Senior Citizen owner?
Well quite - and I've seen a lot of very fast cars being driven very gently (often in the region of a Hampshire dealer, so possibly connected), but you know the general score with building up a profile.Quite right.
I like to think about it as follows: you commit to the overtake at the point where you can no longer stop behind the target vehicle if he brakes hard. It's a good idea to be have all the information you can get before you commit, and that means being offside.
I like to think about it as follows: you commit to the overtake at the point where you can no longer stop behind the target vehicle if he brakes hard. It's a good idea to be have all the information you can get before you commit, and that means being offside.
MC Bodge said:
This is great in a very fast car or on a motorbike that can provide instant hard acceleration. In a 'normal' car this is less practical, but you need to be aware that accelerating behind the overtakee and then abandoning an overtake could result in a collision.
t scared to overtake even with a good 1 mile of clear road ahead of them i wouldnt have to do multiple overtakes in the first place!I can't imagine that overtaking skills in capable drivers have changed much in recent decades.
What has changed is the quantity of traffic, reductions in speed limits and the number of older (male and female) drivers.
The increase in traffic leads to fewer gaps in oncoming traffic, longer columns of traffic following a slow-moving vehicle.
The reduction in speed limits due to "Speed Kills". There's a fear of being caught exceeding those limits.
The ageing driving population as a group may have become more cautious of overtaking (although sharper brakes, 'safety' and more sound-proofing in cars may have contributed to less caution on dual carriageways).
What has changed is the quantity of traffic, reductions in speed limits and the number of older (male and female) drivers.
The increase in traffic leads to fewer gaps in oncoming traffic, longer columns of traffic following a slow-moving vehicle.
The reduction in speed limits due to "Speed Kills". There's a fear of being caught exceeding those limits.
The ageing driving population as a group may have become more cautious of overtaking (although sharper brakes, 'safety' and more sound-proofing in cars may have contributed to less caution on dual carriageways).
Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 27th October 18:02
In August 1999 I overtook a short convoy of three cars on an NSL road. All went as planned and I "proceeded" into the distance. About thirty seconds later I noted a car gaining rapidly on me. I even commented on it to my brother.
The unmarked police car that was reeling me in had been the middle car of the three. He was completely relaxed about the overtake but felt he had to pull me for my speed afterwards. Fair enough.
The unmarked police car that was reeling me in had been the middle car of the three. He was completely relaxed about the overtake but felt he had to pull me for my speed afterwards. Fair enough.
MC Bodge said:
I was referring to overtaking multiple vehicles in one pass.
When this occurs, maximum acceleration/minimal exposure to danger is the order of the day. It is a possibility that such a manoeuvre may take a duration of time that would result in the speed limit being exceeded.
As every overtake is different, so every multiple vehicle overtake is different. When this occurs, maximum acceleration/minimal exposure to danger is the order of the day. It is a possibility that such a manoeuvre may take a duration of time that would result in the speed limit being exceeded.
One time in Western Autralia, I overtook around 14 vehicles over a distance of about 2 or 3km without exceeding the speed limit. The vehicles included a number of cars, two Transperth buses, a truck and another truck towing a boat.
creampuff said:
One time in Western Autralia, I overtook around 14 vehicles over a distance of about 2 or 3km without exceeding the speed limit. The vehicles included a number of cars, two Transperth buses, a truck and another truck towing a boat.
I agree with what you are saying, but I'd be very surprised if that situation occurred on an IAM test in any moderately populated part of the UK. ...Possibly at night in the Northern Highlands.It's always possible in the Noble, you've either got to be quick about it or as I do, try to treat each car as a separate overtake, even if you don't go back in. For each one consider if it's safe to continue, where the escape route is etc.
I used to just floor it but since doing advanced training I try to be as gentle as possible, despite being able to overtake at a similar pace to a motorbike it'd only end up scaring and/or annoying people.
I used to just floor it but since doing advanced training I try to be as gentle as possible, despite being able to overtake at a similar pace to a motorbike it'd only end up scaring and/or annoying people.
Chapppers said:
It's always possible in the Noble, you've either got to be quick about it or as I do, try to treat each car as a separate overtake, even if you don't go back in. For each one consider if it's safe to continue, where the escape route is etc.
I used to just floor it but since doing advanced training I try to be as gentle as possible, despite being able to overtake at a similar pace to a motorbike it'd only end up scaring and/or annoying people.
What I find, even on a 600cc bike that has half the power of a 1000cc superbike, is that there is no need for a full-bore 2nd gear blast for many overtakes. I'm normally easing off before I'm pulling back in. A bike is much easier for overtaking than any car due to the excellent view point and the short length and narrow width allowing one to pull into smaller gaps or occupy a space that won't accommodate a car, if necessary.I used to just floor it but since doing advanced training I try to be as gentle as possible, despite being able to overtake at a similar pace to a motorbike it'd only end up scaring and/or annoying people.
A multiple overtake is always going to be more than twice as risky as a single one, mainly because of the expectations and actions of other half-awake drivers. Apply a bit of human psychology - If one of the others ahead of you fancies an overtake at the same time then they probably won't look to their right, they'll just use their interior mirror. We all know what they "should" do, but need to accept that they won't.
It's not so much about the power of your own car.
It's not so much about the power of your own car.
I had a car pull out on me on a multiple overtake, clear road with a clear view of about a 1/2 mile, one car in front, one large moving van in front of him. Took my time, moved to the offside, indicated and all that, he made no move to overtake the last long straight we were on, so i decided to go around, accelerated smoothly to over take, had loads of time as no oncoming traffic at all.......... Hatchback decides to pull out just when im beside him.
I leaned on horn, he over corrected back into the lane behind the truck and ended up on the verge and spun.
I ended up completing the overtake, turning around further up the road and coming back to check on him.
He was a young chap and obviously a little shaken (me too), after asking him did he see me, he said yes, but I appeared next to him a little faster than he'd expected.
Anyway, even when it looks like a good time, it still may not be.
I leaned on horn, he over corrected back into the lane behind the truck and ended up on the verge and spun.
I ended up completing the overtake, turning around further up the road and coming back to check on him.
He was a young chap and obviously a little shaken (me too), after asking him did he see me, he said yes, but I appeared next to him a little faster than he'd expected.
Anyway, even when it looks like a good time, it still may not be.
Apart from requiring a little more planning, multi vehicle overtakes are much the same as any other overtake. Boringly enough I have written and read many a thesis on more advanced styles of driving and this is always a favourite subject. SAFE, LEGAL and has a POINT are key, but as with any overtake, don't "take off" unless you have somewhere to "land". Outside of a Dual Carriageway or Motorway scenario, overtaking in this country is almost seen as unacceptable to many other road users. In my opinion, if the Driving Test was designed much the same as the German version, we wouldn't have so many frustrated driving situations and drivers wouldn't see the need to take many of the unnecessary risks they currently do - few things worse than being sat in a National Speed Limit with a line of vehicles in front, nose to tail, quite happy to follow their leader at 45mph, leaving no gaps between vehicles suitable to plan overtakes and having no intention of overtaking themselves! Nowadays you also have to be aware of the other driver's attitudes to you overtaking them - as an experiment on driver attitude, I spent a lengthy period of study driving my car behind others on Single Carriageways, just half pulling out, without accelerating (always where safe of course). Almost without fail, the car in front, assuming that I was about to overtake, would increase its speed and start to close the gap between it and the car in front of it. Dangerous, but something you should be aware of. I have tutored more advanced driving all around the world and if we all took time to read Chapter 1 in the Police Road Craft Manual referring to driver's attitudes, we would be a whole lot wiser and perhaps progress a little more!
Seems there are a lot of people out there who don't know how to safely overtake or are unwilling to do so. This often ends up in multiple cars tailing back and waiting for the car in front to overtake which often doesn't happen.
So sometimes there is no choice but to overtake multiple cars if you want to make progress, rather than be stuck driving 40mph everywhere.
Rarely need to do it but you'd be amazed even in a only moderately powerful car how many cars you can safely overtake with the correct planning.
So sometimes there is no choice but to overtake multiple cars if you want to make progress, rather than be stuck driving 40mph everywhere.
Rarely need to do it but you'd be amazed even in a only moderately powerful car how many cars you can safely overtake with the correct planning.
Sorry for the zombie thread!
I did my first multi-car overtake yesterday in over a year of full license driving.
500m stretch of prime overtaking B road. I was behind a land rover, which was behind somebody who was doing about 30 mph on the straights. I passed up a previous opportunity to give the land rover a chance. He didn't take it, and, having driven down this road earlier that same day, I knew what was coming.
Is it safe? - Clear road, slow moving traffic such that even my Citigo can get decent acceleration, car ahead won't overtake.
Is it legal? - 30 mph leeway for this maneuver. Overtaking is allowed.
Do I gain an advantage? - I'm behind a snail.
So yeah, at 30 mph that straight was going to last the better half of a minute. At 60, 19 seconds.
I did my first multi-car overtake yesterday in over a year of full license driving.
500m stretch of prime overtaking B road. I was behind a land rover, which was behind somebody who was doing about 30 mph on the straights. I passed up a previous opportunity to give the land rover a chance. He didn't take it, and, having driven down this road earlier that same day, I knew what was coming.
Is it safe? - Clear road, slow moving traffic such that even my Citigo can get decent acceleration, car ahead won't overtake.
Is it legal? - 30 mph leeway for this maneuver. Overtaking is allowed.
Do I gain an advantage? - I'm behind a snail.
So yeah, at 30 mph that straight was going to last the better half of a minute. At 60, 19 seconds.
The problem with a road like this is there are a number of increased risks for the average overtake:
- no centre marks so increased likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- potentially variable road edge (no edge line/pavement etc), increasing likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- high walls/hedges reduced visibility ahead.
- likelihood of field farm accesses , beware farm vehicles pulling out.
I'm not saying a multiple overtake isn't safe but beware the above.
- no centre marks so increased likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- potentially variable road edge (no edge line/pavement etc), increasing likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- high walls/hedges reduced visibility ahead.
- likelihood of field farm accesses , beware farm vehicles pulling out.
I'm not saying a multiple overtake isn't safe but beware the above.
Benrad said:
I was under the impression that you should only ever overtake if there is only one car infront of you, overtaking more than one could mean that a car infront may also move out to overtake without checking mirrors and you would hit them. I'm talking about single carriageways obviously. I've seen a few vids on here with people doing this manoeuvre without anybody picking them up on it?
I ask because I graduate from uni next summer and plan to do IAM once I'm settled into my new job.
A good question...I ask because I graduate from uni next summer and plan to do IAM once I'm settled into my new job.
There is very little training on overtaking and with an increasingly crowded island, for many people who don't understand how to overtake / are happy to bimble along in a vacant cloud there is a big misunderstanding in that they see it as dangerous and unnecessary.
It can be dangerous if done badly - and multiple cars do add to the complexity - however there is some good advice above, and starting with the IAM will be a good place to begin - however, don't expect that it will be a course to push multiple overtakes, normal overtakes yes, but safety always comes first and there are many more questions around multiple car overtakes...
with a single car, the fact that you are behind and able to travel faster means that you have a good chance of a simple overtake - if there is space (width and length) then it is a relatively easy move...
with more than one car, as others have said, you need to also understand the intentions of the other drivers and think about how you make them feel at ease / aware of you - taking time / pausing / having options is always important... the other day I had a string of cars to pass - I passed three, and then chose to come back in before passing the next two - there was traffic in the distance, but I had plenty of safe time to get past (powerful car as well), however I was conscious that the two ahead may not have realised what I was doing - many motorists don't look in their rear-view mirrors (certainly not more than one car back) so rather than appear alongside them at speed, I pulled into the space to give them time to get used to a new car and one that had arrived by overtaking, so may overtake again... waited for the traffic to pass and then overtook the next two...
one of the things about advanced driving is being very conscious of the context in which you drive - so understanding not just whether you are safe, but how your moves affect others, so finding ways to manage that expectation / reaction is important and a multiple car overtake will almost always involve passing one or more cars which may not be expecting you to come past - remember that the rear car may have seen you approach - the front car, holding up the queue may be used to being overtaken - but the cars in-between have made a choice not to overtake so already assume that overtaking is not possible / dangerous / etc. - i.e. they do not expect to be overtaken themselves...
so to your original question - it can be safe and appropriate, but is one of the most technical and complex moves you can make on the road, so do so with caution - however when mastered, a good overtake is very satisfying, whether one car or many!
Green1man said:
The problem with a road like this is there are a number of increased risks for the average overtake:
- no centre marks so increased likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- potentially variable road edge (no edge line/pavement etc), increasing likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- high walls/hedges reduced visibility ahead.
- likelihood of field farm accesses , beware farm vehicles pulling out.
I'm not saying a multiple overtake isn't safe but beware the above.
The points you make are valid, however that street view is several years out of date! There was a centre line, and I'd been along earlier, so knew there were no farm entrances on this stretch. I hadn't considered the edge issue, so that's one I'll keep in mind in future.- no centre marks so increased likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- potentially variable road edge (no edge line/pavement etc), increasing likelihood of other driver drifting onto other side.
- high walls/hedges reduced visibility ahead.
- likelihood of field farm accesses , beware farm vehicles pulling out.
I'm not saying a multiple overtake isn't safe but beware the above.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff