4 wheel drive & the real world
Discussion
harryowl said:
What about Option E - RWD and the realisation that an accelerator pedal isn't an on/off switch!
4WD does make life easy, but when was easy ever fun? (That was loaded with more innuendo than intended!)
Its only a 170ps Tiguan Sport I have . but pulling away on a greasy road , or out of a junction or roundabout is far more sure footed than the previous Passat , where the TC would argue with its self and cut engine power , loss of traction in greasy conditions was the norm even when sticker tyres were fitted .
And of course as a shed puller 4wd means getting smartly off the line easy to the point of leaving some cars floundering trying to get in front .
So even for every day use ,yes 4WD is worth it .
Also my sons 500bhp R32 would be hopeless without 4WD
And of course as a shed puller 4wd means getting smartly off the line easy to the point of leaving some cars floundering trying to get in front .
So even for every day use ,yes 4WD is worth it .
Also my sons 500bhp R32 would be hopeless without 4WD
IMO too. Everyones 'real world' driving is different, how useful 4wd is depends a lot on where you live and what you do for fun. Living as I do in a place with interesting weather and lots of gravel roads, it does make a difference.
In fact just the other day I took the Legacy up a road/track that would have simply been impossible/inaccessible in a 2wd car - without 4wd I would have had to walk an extra 12 miles to get where I wanted to go.
Rwd does generally make for more accessible fun on normal roads though.
In fact just the other day I took the Legacy up a road/track that would have simply been impossible/inaccessible in a 2wd car - without 4wd I would have had to walk an extra 12 miles to get where I wanted to go.
Rwd does generally make for more accessible fun on normal roads though.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 27th January 19:40
OP
Having had mostly RWD cars in my last 25 years of driving including 2 Cosworths , RWD Escorts and V6 Rear drivers and recently a Mustang and Camaro I can honestly say for all the snow we get in the UK I wouldn`t discount buying a RWD car. If you understand the basics they`re great fun. No one expects you to Scandinavian flick your new BMW within a week or two of purchase but don`t be put off by `poor traction` in the wet.
As another poster has said 4WD drive cars can dampen the experience slightly on bone dry roads but my old XR4x4 was amazing fun in the snow to be honest.4WD offers superb traction though.
I have a few friends that wouldn`t have another RWD car (usually BMWs) as they`re scared of the back end stepping out and see that as a design fault.
Personally that`s half the fun.
Having had mostly RWD cars in my last 25 years of driving including 2 Cosworths , RWD Escorts and V6 Rear drivers and recently a Mustang and Camaro I can honestly say for all the snow we get in the UK I wouldn`t discount buying a RWD car. If you understand the basics they`re great fun. No one expects you to Scandinavian flick your new BMW within a week or two of purchase but don`t be put off by `poor traction` in the wet.
As another poster has said 4WD drive cars can dampen the experience slightly on bone dry roads but my old XR4x4 was amazing fun in the snow to be honest.4WD offers superb traction though.
I have a few friends that wouldn`t have another RWD car (usually BMWs) as they`re scared of the back end stepping out and see that as a design fault.
Personally that`s half the fun.Edited by bigkeeko on Monday 27th January 19:35
Podie said:
harryowl said:
What about Option E - RWD and the realisation that an accelerator pedal isn't an on/off switch!
If it's wet and greasy and you're doing a quick satnav reprogramming/iPod reshuffle when you approach the junction, still sipping from a McTea and can only use the one hand for car control, or are halfway through sealing an exclusive paperclip sales deal on the Bluetooth I still maintain 4wd is a huge advantage.
That BMW will have enough tech on it to reel in most problems safely, but if pulling out of a junction in the peeing rain I'd prefer 4wd every time.
If after pure driver enjoyment, at-one-with-the-machine nanny-free fun that doesn't need 5 minutes with an iDrive specialist then that MX5 post up there is a good call.
Testdrives are the only answer
I am always amazed at how many people think RWD = immediate death.
It means handling precision, no torque steer, usually no understeer (which is hateful) and a much nicer drive. It also means if you do get our of shape, your steering wheels still do what they are meant to do.
Yes 4WD has it's benefits but in a performance car (rather than off roader), you really don't need it much unless your regular drive includes proper rallying.
It means handling precision, no torque steer, usually no understeer (which is hateful) and a much nicer drive. It also means if you do get our of shape, your steering wheels still do what they are meant to do.
Yes 4WD has it's benefits but in a performance car (rather than off roader), you really don't need it much unless your regular drive includes proper rallying.
I think you get lazy after driving 4wd cars for a long time, and quickly notice lack of traction from say the lights or an a greasy T junction.
I know I have after having 4wd cars pretty much all the time for the last ten years.
A lot depends where you live though - in central London - or a major city centre - not much point really
My justification is I've got lazier in my driving as I've got older and not that bothered about powersliding around roundabouts and more, and I live up a steep hill in the middle of now where which never gets cleared of any snow and 4wd saves on the extra expense of winter tyres. (and yeah I have a proper off roader should the weather get really bad).
For me I would not choose a car without 4wd. Did have a BMW for 18 months without 4wd and it annoyed the hell out of me - totally useless when it snowed and three times could not get up the hill to my house.
I know I have after having 4wd cars pretty much all the time for the last ten years.
A lot depends where you live though - in central London - or a major city centre - not much point really
My justification is I've got lazier in my driving as I've got older and not that bothered about powersliding around roundabouts and more, and I live up a steep hill in the middle of now where which never gets cleared of any snow and 4wd saves on the extra expense of winter tyres. (and yeah I have a proper off roader should the weather get really bad).
For me I would not choose a car without 4wd. Did have a BMW for 18 months without 4wd and it annoyed the hell out of me - totally useless when it snowed and three times could not get up the hill to my house.
I am left pondering the age old question: "Am I infact a driving god?"
I am arriving at the bizarre conclusion of "Yes".
I have used RWD cars in Scotland for years as my daily. I haven't driven anything with less than 3.0 litres and 6 cylinders for quite a while. I regularly achieve WOT in the 4.5 litre TVR and although this will provoke wheelspin in 1st and 2nd in the wet, just 1st in the dry if it's cold and takes real clumsiness when it's warm and dry, I honestly have never struggled with RWD.
Traction control makes no bloody difference - it virtually never interferes regardless what I'm doing. Not driving with Fookmi Ditchfinders for £59/corner fitted does make a difference. I have bugger all patience and regularly pull out of junctions - it's hard not to pull out of junctions when going pretty much anywhere really, and I wasn't built for waiting. I'm fairly sure I drive in real-life conditions, since I live in Scotland and drive to work and back 5 days a week. I haven't crashed, spun in to a hedge or even fishtailed away from a junction, even pricking around with the TVR in the wet.
I don't make a habit of racing Impreza STIs, STDs or even the uber rare VD editions, but then again I'm rarely holding an AWD car up either.
The answer is staring me in the face. I hereby declare that I am a driving god. There is no other explanation. Everyone knows RWD cars are useless in real-life for non-driving gods...
I am arriving at the bizarre conclusion of "Yes".
I have used RWD cars in Scotland for years as my daily. I haven't driven anything with less than 3.0 litres and 6 cylinders for quite a while. I regularly achieve WOT in the 4.5 litre TVR and although this will provoke wheelspin in 1st and 2nd in the wet, just 1st in the dry if it's cold and takes real clumsiness when it's warm and dry, I honestly have never struggled with RWD.
Traction control makes no bloody difference - it virtually never interferes regardless what I'm doing. Not driving with Fookmi Ditchfinders for £59/corner fitted does make a difference. I have bugger all patience and regularly pull out of junctions - it's hard not to pull out of junctions when going pretty much anywhere really, and I wasn't built for waiting. I'm fairly sure I drive in real-life conditions, since I live in Scotland and drive to work and back 5 days a week. I haven't crashed, spun in to a hedge or even fishtailed away from a junction, even pricking around with the TVR in the wet.
I don't make a habit of racing Impreza STIs, STDs or even the uber rare VD editions, but then again I'm rarely holding an AWD car up either.
The answer is staring me in the face. I hereby declare that I am a driving god. There is no other explanation. Everyone knows RWD cars are useless in real-life for non-driving gods...
Well I like 4WD vehicles but you need to be clear of what type of 4WD you are referring to, I'll assume fast saloons or estates rather SUV type vehicles.
I have had a couple of Audi Quattro vehicles and I just like the unfussy progress but it really depends on your driving style and type of journeys. I did have a Ford Focus for a while, reminding myself what wheel spin was.
As others have said, for most of the year you are carting around a lot of extra weight but for the moments of bad weather 4WD does help you get moving but doesn't help you stop. So really it is horses for courses but they are a lot better with plenty of power, a V8 and 4WD is a perfect combination in my book.
I have had a couple of Audi Quattro vehicles and I just like the unfussy progress but it really depends on your driving style and type of journeys. I did have a Ford Focus for a while, reminding myself what wheel spin was.
As others have said, for most of the year you are carting around a lot of extra weight but for the moments of bad weather 4WD does help you get moving but doesn't help you stop. So really it is horses for courses but they are a lot better with plenty of power, a V8 and 4WD is a perfect combination in my book.
Max_Torque said:
CGJJ said:
Try keeping up with a Subaru STi across country in the rain in any two wheel drive car of your choice and i think you may change your mind…..
OK, challenge accepted, i chose this:
;-)
On the typical countryside roads at this time of year, i very much doubt you could make the same kind of progress as i can in my 4wd.
Scuffers said:
Max_Torque said:
CGJJ said:
Try keeping up with a Subaru STi across country in the rain in any two wheel drive car of your choice and i think you may change your mind…..
OK, challenge accepted, i chose this:;-)
On the typical countryside roads at this time of year, i very much doubt you could make the same kind of progress as i can in my 4wd.
You are saying that a car with 647bhp/ton and aero kit that means it can pull 2g (in the dry) will not be able to "keep up with" a car with 215bhp/tonne that can pull nearly 1g (in the dry)
I've driven both, and the P1 would not require more than 4000rpm 3/4 throttle to disappear into the distance on anything other than a C/D class road.
You wont be able to stop in what you can see to be clear any better than the RWD car, which is the usual progress limiter for anyone with more than 2 brain cells to bang together on public B-roads IMHO.
You can drive faster than is safe to do so for stopping distance reasons with even a modest RWD car at this time of year on twisty roads. It's being sure you're not going to headbutt oncoming traffic that limits you, not wheelspin.
You can drive faster than is safe to do so for stopping distance reasons with even a modest RWD car at this time of year on twisty roads. It's being sure you're not going to headbutt oncoming traffic that limits you, not wheelspin.
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