4 wheel drive & the real world

4 wheel drive & the real world

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Discussion

Pixelpeep

Original Poster:

8,600 posts

141 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
ok, i'm liking what i am hearing so far..

this is going to be an odd question and there are tons of variables i understand. but..

on a wet road, slight incline t junction, pulling out and doing a right in a steady flow of both direction traffic what is likely to give me more traction

my current FWD mapped astra VXR (old shape with no LSD)

or

a BMW m135i

(considering same makes of tyre, same condition of car, same driver etc)

PhillipM

6,515 posts

188 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
You wont be able to stop in what you can see to be clear any better than the RWD car, which is the usual progress limiter for anyone with more than 2 brain cells to bang together on public B-roads IMHO.
Pretty much, in most of the more enjoyable roads around here this slows me down even in a 1.4 hatchback.
Doesn't stop some morons mind, but you usually see them parked in a field another day.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Vladimir said:
Max; you've driven a P1?!!! How, where and why?!

Funny that many of these ubercars aren't 4wd...
I was part of the team that developed the car for Mclaren Automotive / MESL. We started the development of the powertrain just over 3 years ago.........




Vladimir

6,917 posts

157 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
I was part of the team that developed the car for Mclaren Automotive / MESL. We started the development of the powertrain just over 3 years ago.........
Damn cool!!

Pixel; the M135i by a fair margin.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Pixelpeep said:
ok, i'm liking what i am hearing so far..

this is going to be an odd question and there are tons of variables i understand. but..

on a wet road, slight incline t junction, pulling out and doing a right in a steady flow of both direction traffic what is likely to give me more traction

my current FWD mapped astra VXR (old shape with no LSD)

or

a BMW m135i

(considering same makes of tyre, same condition of car, same driver etc)
Initally, the Astra, as at zero acceleration, it will have slightly more weight on the drive wheels, but as soon as you start to accelerate, the BMW, by a significant margin. And crucially, the harder you accelerate, the more traction the BMW generates (the opposite of the Astra).

So, if you just bang the throttle down either car will wheelspin, but feed in the throttle to limit any excessive initial wheel spin, and the BMW will then pretty much take full throttle thereafter.

Herbs

4,912 posts

228 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
The funny thing is is that most 4wd systems are normally Fwd the majority of the time anyway!

Really, RWD is not an issue unless you drive like a learner or a dick.

Pixelpeep

Original Poster:

8,600 posts

141 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
im off work tomorrow. i'm thinking a trip to a BMW dealership and a test drive is in order.

A45 is £10k more expensive and the ONLY thing it has over the bmw is the drive train.

Genuinely quite excited. Thank you all for your input.

Pixelpeep

Original Poster:

8,600 posts

141 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Now - what's the catch with this?! > http://www.gateway2lease.com/bmw_m135i_leasing.php...

£287 a month Inc vat with £2k down?!


zcacogp

11,239 posts

243 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
I am left pondering the age old question: "Am I infact a driving god?"

I am arriving at the bizarre conclusion of "Yes".
Well, hey, looks like we're both driving gods then! Funnily enough I manage to drive a 20-year-old RWD 3 litre car all year 'round (although admittedly mainly in the South of England) and have yet to encounter any of the problems outlined on this thread. I even managed to drive it on compacted snow and sheet ice on summer tyres! in a couple of recent winters, sometimes for up to 400 miles in a day.

Once upon a time people managed to drive cars themselves, without nannying computers and over-complicated tech doing the brain work for them. I lament the loss of those days ...

andy43 said:
Pulling out of a T junction? Traffic? Wet?
Option A - RWD - hoof it into a gap in the traffic. TC cuts in, cuts out, cuts in, progress is made. Eventually.
Option B - RWD, TC off - hoof it aiming for the gap, wipe out the bus queue and end up in hedge. This assumes non-driving god status/drift king abilities.
Option C - FrWD. As Option A but much slower with more pathetic wheelspin.
Option D - 4wd. Gap, gas, job done.
I don't want to appear rude Andy43, but do you really think you need 4wd to pull out of a T-junction when it's wet? Really? You astound me.


Oli.

poing

8,743 posts

199 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Pixelpeep said:
Now - what's the catch with this?! > http://www.gateway2lease.com/bmw_m135i_leasing.php...

£287 a month Inc vat with £2k down?!
Didn't look at the link but doubt there is a catch, BMW are virtually giving these away at the moment. You'd be mad not to take the lease deal right now, make the most of it like many here already have.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Monday 27th January 2014
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Max_Torque said:
Scuffers said:
Max_Torque said:
CGJJ said:
Try keeping up with a Subaru STi across country in the rain in any two wheel drive car of your choice and i think you may change your mind…..
OK, challenge accepted, i chose this:




;-)
Ok, i'll call you...

On the typical countryside roads at this time of year, i very much doubt you could make the same kind of progress as i can in my 4wd.
Let me get this right, in case i'm due a whoosh parrot.

You are saying that a car with 647bhp/ton and aero kit that means it can pull 2g (in the dry) will not be able to "keep up with" a car with 215bhp/tonne that can pull nearly 1g (in the dry)

I've driven both, and the P1 would not require more than 4000rpm 3/4 throttle to disappear into the distance on anything other than a C/D class road.
Who said in the dry?

Read what i said.

Then, if your still up for it, come and prove me wrong.


anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Max_Torque said:
Scuffers said:
Max_Torque said:
CGJJ said:
Try keeping up with a Subaru STi across country in the rain in any two wheel drive car of your choice and i think you may change your mind…..
OK, challenge accepted, i chose this:




;-)
Ok, i'll call you...

On the typical countryside roads at this time of year, i very much doubt you could make the same kind of progress as i can in my 4wd.
Let me get this right, in case i'm due a whoosh parrot.

You are saying that a car with 647bhp/ton and aero kit that means it can pull 2g (in the dry) will not be able to "keep up with" a car with 215bhp/tonne that can pull nearly 1g (in the dry)

I've driven both, and the P1 would not require more than 4000rpm 3/4 throttle to disappear into the distance on anything other than a C/D class road.
Who said in the dry?

Read what i said.

Then, if your still up for it, come and prove me wrong.
lol, you've gotta love the internet eh! ;-)


Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
lol, you've gotta love the internet eh! ;-)
So, that's a no then?

As usual, all talk, no balls.


anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Max_Torque said:
lol, you've gotta love the internet eh! ;-)
So, that's a no then?

As usual, all talk, no balls.
hehe Love you too! ;-)

Who me ?

7,455 posts

211 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
skyrover said:
It makes next to bugger all difference unless it snows.
Answer to that question ,is "Learn to drive in snow" = think about your driving techniques. Light feet and anticipation are the answer. Imagine you are driving on non treated inclines where the road is only a foot or so wider than your car.Learn skid avoidance and skid combat driving.
I learned this in ancient RWD cars on single track roads. I learned this over 40 years ago. Today in a FWD car with summer tyres my only problem is the folks that CAN'T /HAVEN'T LEARNT to drive in those conditions.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
This really sums up PH at times...

Too many people with the rhetoric, but zero ability to back it up.

Yes, i am sure the p1 is amazing, and on decent open roads, it would be blistering fast, but on a typical unclassified country road at the moment, ie. st broken surface, somewhat waterlogged, covered in mud and the like, i just don't think a p1 with its massive pzeros are going constant any chance of gaining enough consistent grip.

As with most things, it's courses for courses....

Output Flange

16,793 posts

210 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
This really sums up PH at times...

Too many people with the rhetoric, but zero ability to back it up.

Yes, i am sure the p1 is amazing, and on decent open roads, it would be blistering fast, but on a typical unclassified country road at the moment, ie. st broken surface, somewhat waterlogged, covered in mud and the like, i just don't think a p1 with its massive pzeros are going constant any chance of gaining enough consistent grip.

As with most things, it's courses for courses....
Have you driven a P1 at all? No? So you can't back it up either.

Just stop.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Output Flange said:
Have you driven a P1 at all? No? So you can't back it up either.

Just stop.
No, i haven't.

I have driven mid engined 2wd cars with somewhat higher p/w ratios, and i do actually know how to drive.

Look, the point is matteyboy turns up saying a p1 would be this and that, but as usual, unable to back it up.

All that's needed now is somebody tonstartvquoting top gear track times!



Edited by Scuffers on Monday 27th January 21:45

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
This really sums up PH at times...

Too many people with the rhetoric, but zero ability to back it up.

Yes, i am sure the p1 is amazing, and on decent open roads, it would be blistering fast, but on a typical unclassified country road at the moment, ie. st broken surface, somewhat waterlogged, covered in mud and the like, i just don't think a p1 with its massive pzeros are going constant any chance of gaining enough consistent grip.

As with most things, it's courses for courses....
Four wheel drive doesn't help grip. It helps traction.

30v

99 posts

146 months

Monday 27th January 2014
quotequote all
I've ran Audi quattros (torsen, not haldex differentials) for years and can count on one hand the times the 4x4 has come to the fore due to lack of grip/ talent. That said, they're beastly in the snow and pulling out of muddy camping fields and festival car parks. So no, you don't need it 99% of the time unless you live in the sticks. But, that 1% when it's needed and the confidence it inspires in the wet make it worth it for me, just. Needs a decent engine to get best out of it though.