Reg's Youtube thread

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p1esk

4,914 posts

195 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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Hi Reg, I wonder if you would be kind enough to clarify something from your 'Steering' video.

You mention two principal methods, the first of which is 'pull-push', and that one is clear enough.

What puzzles me is (seemingly) a joint reference to rotational / fixed grip steering, and I think they are two separate methods, for example:

1. 'rotational steering' is where a large amount of steering wheel rotation is required quickly, such as at a sharp hairpin bend, so a hand-over-hand method is used, though I know some people do frown on the use of this method and advocate pull-push instead.

2. 'fixed grip steering' is where a bend or corner can be negotiated without the need to move our hands relative to the steering wheel itself, though this is only suitable where no more than about 90 degrees of steering wheel rotation is required.

I'd appreciate it if you could just clarify this and explain where I've got it wrong, if I have.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Reg Local

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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In my view, rotational steering and what you describe at "fixed grip" steering are the same thing up to a point.

In referring to rotational steering in my video, I mean keeping a fixed grip on the steering wheel an applying up to about 45-60 degrees (at most) of steering without moving your hands from their original position on the wheel.

There is no reference to "fixed grip steering" in Roadcraft - just pull-push and rotational techniques, although the description of the first part of rotational steering is, effectively a fixed grip technique.

Hope that clears it up?!

Reg Local

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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Hang on - nearly forgot!

The latest Siberian driving video is now online. Part 2 - Country roads.

Worth watching to the end to see that none of us are perfect!

https://youtu.be/MiZf4nHuymQ

p1esk

4,914 posts

195 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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Reg Local said:
In my view, rotational steering and what you describe at "fixed grip" steering are the same thing up to a point.

In referring to rotational steering in my video, I mean keeping a fixed grip on the steering wheel an applying up to about 45-60 degrees (at most) of steering without moving your hands from their original position on the wheel.

There is no reference to "fixed grip steering" in Roadcraft - just pull-push and rotational techniques, although the description of the first part of rotational steering is, effectively a fixed grip technique.

Hope that clears it up?!
Hi Reg, many thanks for your reply.

Well I'm not going to suggest that your view is wrong, but it does differ from the information I've been seeing elsewhere.

This chap illustrates the techniques that I've been accustomed to, namely pull-push, rotational, and fixed grip (although he refers to the latter as fixed input which to my mind is an incorrect description:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ0vLK1zbkg

What he (and I) recognise as rotational steering is demonstrated at 3:10 in the video.

Thanks again, and best wishes,
Dave.

ian in lancs

3,769 posts

197 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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Love the videos!

Siberia reminded me of 6yrs working and driving in Sweden. The first snows of the winter before the winters went on were scary! soft snow deeper than the wheel diameter and sliding all over the place. A week later when everyone had swopped to studded winters all was back to normal.

One morning green grass outside my office, by lunchtime the bicycle against the wall was covered in snow! Drive home was fun! Deep respect for FWD Saab's!

One tip I particularly remember was try to avoid braking or steering in the last 20m of a junction because the cars are stopped or moving slowly over that surface and the underside of the car was hot enough to melt the snow/ice and it refreezes layering solid ice making it especially skittish.

p1esk

4,914 posts

195 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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ian in lancs said:
Love the videos!

Siberia reminded me of 6yrs working and driving in Sweden. The first snows of the winter before the winters went on were scary! soft snow deeper than the wheel diameter and sliding all over the place. A week later when everyone had swopped to studded winters all was back to normal.

One morning green grass outside my office, by lunchtime the bicycle against the wall was covered in snow! Drive home was fun! Deep respect for FWD Saab's!

One tip I particularly remember was try to avoid braking or steering in the last 20m of a junction because the cars are stopped or moving slowly over that surface and the underside of the car was hot enough to melt the snow/ice and it refreezes layering solid ice making it especially skittish.
Now that's the sort of thing I like. It's probably not mentioned at all in any of the advanced driving books; it's just an observation from somebody who may not be a recognised expert, but who does a bit of thinking about little details that can be very helpful.

That's a nice contribution there, Ian, thank you.

Reg Local

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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My top "locals" tip if you're driving in these temperatures - it was -32C on a couple of days - is to leave all the car's doors open for a couple of minutes when you stop & park up. This allows the cold, dry air into the car, pushes out the warm, moist air and prevents the inside of your windows from icing up.

The outside glass doesn't freeze, because the cold is so severe, it freezes the moisture in the air & you can see tiny ice crystals floating in the air, which settle on the car overnight, but just need sweeping off with a soft brush in the mornng.

p1esk

4,914 posts

195 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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Reg Local said:
My top "locals" tip if you're driving in these temperatures - it was -32C on a couple of days - is to leave all the car's doors open for a couple of minutes when you stop & park up. This allows the cold, dry air into the car, pushes out the warm, moist air and prevents the inside of your windows from icing up.

The outside glass doesn't freeze, because the cold is so severe, it freezes the moisture in the air & you can see tiny ice crystals floating in the air, which settle on the car overnight, but just need sweeping off with a soft brush in the mornng.
I didn't notice if it was mentioned in the video, but did you have the problem of finding the doors frozen onto the door seals so you couldn't get into the damned car on a frosty morning the way it happens here?

Well it happens to me; maybe it's a safety feature - to prevent me from driving. laugh

PoleDriver

28,614 posts

193 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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p1esk said:
I didn't notice if it was mentioned in the video, but did you have the problem of finding the doors frozen onto the door seals so you couldn't get into the damned car on a frosty morning the way it happens here?

Well it happens to me; maybe it's a safety feature - to prevent me from driving. laugh
As soon as the temperatures start falling I rub a good layer of silicon grease onto all of the door seals. Haven't had a frozen up door since I started doing this 10 years ago!

p1esk

4,914 posts

195 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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PoleDriver said:
p1esk said:
I didn't notice if it was mentioned in the video, but did you have the problem of finding the doors frozen onto the door seals so you couldn't get into the damned car on a frosty morning the way it happens here?

Well it happens to me; maybe it's a safety feature - to prevent me from driving. laugh
As soon as the temperatures start falling I rub a good layer of silicon grease onto all of the door seals. Haven't had a frozen up door since I started doing this 10 years ago!
Ah, a proven answer to the problem; thank you for that.

greygoose

8,224 posts

194 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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Good videos in Siberia, it isn't tempting me much for a holiday though!

Reg Local

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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greygoose said:
Good videos in Siberia, it isn't tempting me much for a holiday though!
It's an amazing country - the scale of the place is beyond anything I've experienced before. The people are tough and resiliant, very straight-talking, and appear, when you first meet them, to be serious, humourless and suspicious of foreigners.

Spend 5 minutes with them, crack a joke and be straight-talking back, however, and they suddenly drop their barriers and become your bestest-ever friend. Behind the very thin mask, they're a remarkably warm, hospitable and good-humoured people.

I've come home with a whole new respect and admiration for Russia and the Russan people.

I'll definitely be going back.

Probably in summer next time though...

greygoose

8,224 posts

194 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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Reg Local said:
greygoose said:
Good videos in Siberia, it isn't tempting me much for a holiday though!
It's an amazing country - the scale of the place is beyond anything I've experienced before. The people are tough and resiliant, very straight-talking, and appear, when you first meet them, to be serious, humourless and suspicious of foreigners.

Spend 5 minutes with them, crack a joke and be straight-talking back, however, and they suddenly drop their barriers and become your bestest-ever friend. Behind the very thin mask, they're a remarkably warm, hospitable and good-humoured people.

I've come home with a whole new respect and admiration for Russia and the Russan people.

I'll definitely be going back.

Probably in summer next time though...
It just looks a bit cold for me! When I went on a road trip round the National Parks in California and down to Las Vegas the scale was similar, the sky and horizons seem huge. Spectacular views of the stars at night too, going over the passes there was snow higher than the car at the top but the road surfaces were fantastic compared to the UK.

Do they put salt on the roads in Russia or just leave the snow/ice to be packed down?

Reg Local

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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Billy Connolly once said "there's no such thing as bad weather - just the wrong clothes", so if you wear a few layers, keep your head and hands covered and take a properly warm coat, you'll be fine.

Having said that, at no point did I even come close to getting used to -30C & you have to be very careful not to leave any skin exposed when there's even a hint of a breeze.

The roads are ploughed, but salt has no effect below about -8C so they don't spread salt and it's essential that everyone swaps to (mostly studded) winter tyres from October to April. They do a little spreading, on hilly sections of road, where they use the waste ash from coal-fired power stations to help with traction. We saw a truck spreading one day - it had a bloke in the back with a shovel, chucking out the ash. A quick pomp on the horn stopped him from spreading it on our bonnet before he continued with probably the worst job in Russia.

Scrub that - whoever empties the unspeakably awful roadside toilets has the worst job in Russia.

Studded tyres were, quite honestly, an absolute revelation. The amount of grip in braking and cornering on what was, essentially, snow-covered sheet ice at times was remarkable.

p1esk

4,914 posts

195 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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Reg Local said:
greygoose said:
Good videos in Siberia, it isn't tempting me much for a holiday though!
It's an amazing country - the scale of the place is beyond anything I've experienced before. The people are tough and resiliant, very straight-talking, and appear, when you first meet them, to be serious, humourless and suspicious of foreigners.

Spend 5 minutes with them, crack a joke and be straight-talking back, however, and they suddenly drop their barriers and become your bestest-ever friend. Behind the very thin mask, they're a remarkably warm, hospitable and good-humoured people.

I've come home with a whole new respect and admiration for Russia and the Russan people.

I'll definitely be going back.

Probably in summer next time though...
...presumably omitting the spinach... wink

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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Reg Local said:
Studded tyres were, quite honestly, an absolute revelation. The amount of grip in braking and cornering on what was, essentially, snow-covered sheet ice at times was remarkable.
This^^ if you've never driven on full studs before (and especially nice new long/sharp ones) the level of grip really plays tricks on you! You can arrive at a bend, on a shear sheet of ice, and drive round it like you would on a typical damp british b road! It pays not to get complacent though, on an older set of tyres, especially those that have been driven on less snowy/icy roads, and have worn or ripped out the studs things can get interesting pretty quickly! I regularity drive cars with well over 600bhp on sheet ice during cold climate testing and the amount of power you can actually deploy is some times actually frightening, especially for any passengers...... ;-)


Another top local extreme cold climate tip: Never put the handbrake on! Snow packs around the rear suspension, melts when the car is sat still after being driven from heat of exhaust/powertrain/brakes, then freezes solid into ice over night, meaning you won't be going anywhere next morning for long time!

Onehp

1,617 posts

282 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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ian in lancs said:
One tip I particularly remember was try to avoid braking or steering in the last 20m of a junction because the cars are stopped or moving slowly over that surface and the underside of the car was hot enough to melt the snow/ice and it refreezes layering solid ice making it especially skittish.
I thought it was mostly because cars generally brake and accelerate in these areas, meaning that any ice gets polished by skidding/spinning tyres. But the surface thaw/freeze from waiting cars could make it worse for sure. Good one.

Reg Local

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Saturday 4th March 2017
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Latest Siberia video is now online:

https://youtu.be/ZzCW80oClvE

I don't want to give the impression that Andy and I enjoyed this day in any way. We didn't. It was all very serious.

Honest.

Reg Local

Original Poster:

2,676 posts

207 months

Monday 6th March 2017
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And part 4:

https://youtu.be/ubOjFnACIBA

Driving a Ural truck & a military tank.

TartanPaint

2,981 posts

138 months

Tuesday 7th March 2017
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p1esk said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ0vLK1zbkg

What he (and I) recognise as rotational steering is demonstrated at 3:10 in the video.
I'd say that what is demonstrated at 3:10 is no technique at all. It's certainly not rotational steering as I've ever seen it taught! It just an abortion of random hand movements with none of the benefits of rotational steering, and none of the control. I would disregard that video and its terminology completely.

Try this instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkQPzRhRnN4&t=...

and notice how he only touches the wheel at (roughly) 9 and 3 o'clock, not wherever the random hand grab happens to land, only crossing over to grab more lock when required, and always grabbing opposite the hand which is still in contact, half a wheel at a time. That's a critical element of rotational steering. By doing that you always know exactly where your hands are on the wheel, where the centre is (and subconsciously which way the front wheels are pointing as a result), and you could return the wheels to dead centre in one movement without looking at your hands.

It's useful for mostly slow-speed tight turns where you need more than a turn of lock, and almost compulsory for track-day hairpins in road cars (which tend to have slow steering racks). And of course catching epic drifts like the driving gods we all are... wink