Advanced Driving confuses normal motorists!!

[TwistingMyMelon]

I wouldn't have overtaken someone who was displaying odd/aggressive behaviour, always better to have the idiot in front of you where you can see them, rather behind you

When I was young and stupid I overtook too many people that didnt want to be overtaken, it mostly doesn't end well,.

Whilst driving long periods on wrong side of road/middle makes sense in some ways it will confuse other drivers, especially if the car was going up to 85 on single carriageway roads why overtake?

Thinking about it , only once I have been overtaken where the overtaker straddled the middle of two lanes behind and tbh it confused me. Driving along a twisty B road at night, misses in the car, so taking it steady , but not slow, its not the safest of roads, with many farm and drive entrances a car behind just moves out and straddles both lanes on some bends, when I could see the road was clear. After about 20 seconds of the car straddling both lanes behind me I just eased off and gently braked down (not brake test at all) so they could just get past. They might have been using some "advanced driving technique" as it was a long sweeping bend, but to me a it just appeared that they were dithering, lacked confidence and didnt really have a clue....so in the ned I had to brake down just to let them go past. Not how I would overtake.

Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Tuesday 20th December 12:02

[montecristo]

Skyrat said:

Just so I understand this, you planned to overtake four cars at once, and then another two on a bend with a junction? And you're patting yourself on the back for your driving? Sorry, far too many things could have gone wrong with those manoeuvres, it's not something I'd have done.

This.

And the casual reference to going 50% over the limit after the overtake was completed (or even during it) doesn't help.

It also seems ungentlemanly to overtake someone when they slowed down because of an obstacle like this, whether they should have foreseen it or not.

[cbmotorsport]

Your advance driving skills are evidently far to advanced for the 'normal motorists'. The fact that you even refer to other road users as 'normal motorists' suggests you hold yourself in quite high regard, which smacks slightly of pomposity.

I'm a normal motorist, and frankly if there was a car in front who was doing 85mph in a NSL, I wouldn't overtake. It would suggest to me that even if if they slow due to lack of planning (as in this case), and even if I get past they will catch up and want to continue doing 85mph. Not safe, sorry.

I think the general idea of being an advanced driver is to make yourself a safer driver ( and that includes other peoples safety too ) and driving in a manner that confuses them (even if technically correct), is not overly safe.

[Len Woodman]

Come to Australia. "Advanced Driving" is related to circuit driving with nice politically correct descriptions such as "Keeping Speed Off the Street" etc.

Rare to have any one-to-one training and no organisations equivalent to IAM, RoSPA let alone HPC exist.

So other drivers generally don't have a clue! The truck drivers aren't too bad though!

Typical scenario is driving along an outback highway for two hundred miles with very few other vehicles. Then you come up to three cars following a fourth - all at 95 km/h (100 limit). They've been doing that for 50 km, much of it straight road. When you catch up then they decide they should overtake, at 96 km/h! Using the MSM (Australian) technique - That's MOVE OUT - SIGNAL - and check MIRRORS to see what chaos they have created.

[sjmmarsh]

I have learned to expect other drivers to react when I am waiting for / undergo / have completed an overtake. My pet peeves are:

1) Make no attempt to overtake the car they have been following until I have started mine
2) Speed up once I am alongside them
3) Speed up to catch me once I am past, often speeding through a 30 to catch me
4) Horns / Flashing during the overtake - don't I know that overtaking is now banned in the Highway code?
5) Move out to block any overtake, but make no attempt to overtake themselves
6) Move out while I am alongside them when they have nobody in front of them
7) Queues of cars which can only be overtaken as a block, not one at a time

As a result of this I often end up waiting for overtakes until it is very safe to do so - many a time I realise I could have completed an overtake safely, were it not for being wary of 1, 2, 5 & 6.

Steve

[RWD cossie wil]

I've given up trying to reason with morons now, I'd have done exactly what you did ref the overtake, you stand to make progress as your driving obviously allows you to plan & execute a fast,safe route. I tend to overtake wherever possible as I commute a very similar route to you, fast single lane A roads & occasional B roads, getting stuck behind a truck or 40mph dawdler can add 30 mins onto a trip!

I get flashed all the time, generally by the muppets who do 40mph through well sighted, clear NSLs, but then proceed to plough through 30mph villages at 40mph as well

Sadly the general driving population are complete morons in general, and all sit 5" off the bumper of the car in front, texting, fog lights blazing, comfortably numb at 40mph in all conditions on all roads... How dare you wake them up by overtaking, you maniac!

I find the best way to deal with them is a total lack of response to anything, no matter how frantic the light flashing, horn blowing, angry gesticulating etc, and simply focus your energy on maintaining your fast, safe progress & planning your next overtake

Can't teach pigs to sing & all that.....

[DocSteve]

RWD cossie wil said:

I've given up trying to reason with morons now, I'd have done exactly what you did ref the overtake, you stand to make progress as your driving obviously allows you to plan & execute a fast,safe route. I tend to overtake wherever possible as I commute a very similar route to you, fast single lane A roads & occasional B roads, getting stuck behind a truck or 40mph dawdler can add 30 mins onto a trip!

I get flashed all the time, generally by the muppets who do 40mph through well sighted, clear NSLs, but then proceed to plough through 30mph villages at 40mph as well

Sadly the general driving population are complete morons in general, and all sit 5" off the bumper of the car in front, texting, fog lights blazing, comfortably numb at 40mph in all conditions on all roads... How dare you wake them up by overtaking, you maniac!

I find the best way to deal with them is a total lack of response to anything, no matter how frantic the light flashing, horn blowing, angry gesticulating etc, and simply focus your energy on maintaining your fast, safe progress & planning your next overtake

Can't teach pigs to sing & all that.....

This really is a very British thing.... Overtaking seems to be much more acceptable to motorists in the majority of other countries I've driven in. I recently drove over 1000 miles in Malaysia and although driving standards are, err, not great most drivers do not take offence to the most egregious of manoeuvres undertaken by their fellow motorists (behaviours that would probably result in extreme road rage here). My overtakes on rural roads were accepted without hassle and in most cases the majority of slower drivers pulled over when they deemed it reasonable to do so.

On that note, I must do a write up of the dreadful but amusing CVT Proton some time... :-)

[Nigel Worc's]

cbmotorsport said:

Your advance driving skills are evidently far to advanced for the 'normal motorists'. The fact that you even refer to other road users as 'normal motorists' suggests you hold yourself in quite high regard, which smacks slightly of pomposity.

I'm a normal motorist, and frankly if there was a car in front who was doing 85mph in a NSL, I wouldn't overtake. It would suggest to me that even if if they slow due to lack of planning (as in this case), and even if I get past they will catch up and want to continue doing 85mph. Not safe, sorry.

I think the general idea of being an advanced driver is to make yourself a safer driver ( and that includes other peoples safety too ) and driving in a manner that confuses them (even if technically correct), is not overly safe.

Well said sir, I've done some of the courses (IAM senior), as well as taught for the organisation.

One of the most important lessons I learnt and tried to teach others was when the apply the system (and that is all it is), and when not to.

If you confuse someone by applying it then I'd suggest you've fallen below the standard you were taught.

[Len Woodman]

DocSteve said:

This really is a very British thing.... Overtaking seems to be much more acceptable to motorists in the majority of other countries I've driven in. I recently drove over 1000 miles in Malaysia and although driving standards are, err, not great most drivers do not take offence to the most egregious of manoeuvres undertaken by their fellow motorists (behaviours that would probably result in extreme road rage here). My overtakes on rural roads were accepted without hassle and in most cases the majority of slower drivers pulled over when they deemed it reasonable to do so.

On that note, I must do a write up of the dreadful but amusing CVT Proton some time... :-)

No not a very British thing - it's endemic here in Australia. Not helped by the excessive use of double continuous white lines prohibiting overtaking. Often these are continued on bends right into a following straight so one cannot use the early vision on a right hand bend for an early and safe overtake. But then most drivers don't worry about crossing continuous lines!

[del mar]

In a similar vain are "timed bus lanes".

The amount of people who cant read and sit in traffic whilst you legally drive up the Bus lane is shocking, and then get all aggressive with you.

Rather than have 2 short queues people prefer one long one, that in itself causes more congestion blocking junctions etc.

[croyde]

RWD cossie wil said:

I've given up trying to reason with morons now, I'd have done exactly what you did ref the overtake, you stand to make progress as your driving obviously allows you to plan & execute a fast,safe route. I tend to overtake wherever possible as I commute a very similar route to you, fast single lane A roads & occasional B roads, getting stuck behind a truck or 40mph dawdler can add 30 mins onto a trip!

I get flashed all the time, generally by the muppets who do 40mph through well sighted, clear NSLs, but then proceed to plough through 30mph villages at 40mph as well

Sadly the general driving population are complete morons in general, and all sit 5" off the bumper of the car in front, texting, fog lights blazing, comfortably numb at 40mph in all conditions on all roads... How dare you wake them up by overtaking, you maniac!

I find the best way to deal with them is a total lack of response to anything, no matter how frantic the light flashing, horn blowing, angry gesticulating etc, and simply focus your energy on maintaining your fast, safe progress & planning your next overtake

Can't teach pigs to sing & all that.....

Totally agree, well said.

[Phunk]

del mar said:

In a similar vain are "timed bus lanes".

The amount of people who cant read and sit in traffic whilst you legally drive up the Bus lane is shocking, and then get all aggressive with you.

Rather than have 2 short queues people prefer one long one, that in itself causes more congestion blocking junctions etc.

I had a black cab driver go mental at me calling me a spam because I was using a bus lane outside of the indicated times. He insisted that it was a 24 hour bus lane and I was in the wrong

[waremark]

del mar said:

In a similar vain are "timed bus lanes".

The amount of people who cant read and sit in traffic whilst you legally drive up the Bus lane is shocking, and then get all aggressive with you.

Rather than have 2 short queues people prefer one long one, that in itself causes more congestion blocking junctions etc.

In heavy traffic I find it difficult to be confident that I have spotted all the signs, so am cautious about using bus lanes unless I have just passed a sign saying I can. And they often seem to have vehicles parked in them.

By the way, what is the justification for allowing black cabs to use them but not Uber drivers?

[Nigel Worc's]

waremark said:

In heavy traffic I find it difficult to be confident that I have spotted all the signs, so am cautious about using bus lanes unless I have just passed a sign saying I can. And they often seem to have vehicles parked in them.

By the way, what is the justification for allowing black cabs to use them but not Uber drivers?

Although they have closed the park and rides here, so there are very few buses to use the few bus lanes we have, the council did get that correct, they do allow cyclists to use them, but otherwise bus lanes are for buses , they are not anti car lanes like in many other areas.

[del mar]

waremark said:

del mar said:

In a similar vain are "timed bus lanes".

The amount of people who cant read and sit in traffic whilst you legally drive up the Bus lane is shocking, and then get all aggressive with you.

Rather than have 2 short queues people prefer one long one, that in itself causes more congestion blocking junctions etc.

In heavy traffic I find it difficult to be confident that I have spotted all the signs, so am cautious about using bus lanes unless I have just passed a sign saying I can. And they often seem to have vehicles parked in them.

By the way, what is the justification for allowing black cabs to use them but not Uber drivers?

Don't know, TFL say they are for Licensed London Taxis ?

I got caught out years ago on the motorbike.

Motorbikes can use bus lanes in London, but only those operated by TFL. After paying the fine I worked out that roads with Red Double lines are TFL lanes and those with Yellow Double Lines are run but the Council.

[vonhosen]

The Taxi can be hailed from the street & pull up to pick up the passenger, uber can't.

[NuddyRap]

Nigel Worc's said:

Well said sir, I've done some of the courses (IAM senior), as well as taught for the organisation.

One of the most important lessons I learnt and tried to teach others was when the apply the system (and that is all it is), and when not to.

If you confuse someone by applying it then I'd suggest you've fallen below the standard you were taught.

Interesting point, and one that I don't think is made often enough within the IAM.

In the post I read that a pretty decent distance was maintained between the vehicle in front and the OP, irrespective of the OP's road position. I read this as attempting to mitigate the risk that the other road user would be confused.

Evidently they unfortunately were, but I don't think anyone can say they never make a driving mistake.

[waremark]

vonhosen said:

The Taxi can be hailed from the street & pull up to pick up the passenger, uber can't.

Is that relevant to the use of bus lanes? They are both similar kinds of public transport, in terms of ease of use calling on an app has become a more convenient way of hailing than standing out in the cold and holding up an arm.

I am now wondering what the logic is of allowing taxis to use bus lanes at all.

[Don]

Whilst I don't have any time for fkwits like the OP mentioned, nor any time for them becoming confused, I should point out that the Advanced Driving advice has changed...at least according to the last Rospa Examiner I met for the test.

Positioning the car for best visibility up the road should be done within your lane: i.e. not crossing the white line. My latest Rospa Examiner pulled me up on this as, if it is legal and safe to do so I will happily position all the way to the offside.

This will no longer pass a Rospa test. You should not cross over a white line.

I challenged the advice if there were no lines present then could I position right to the offside and the Examiner accepted that technically I could with the aforementioned legal and safe provisos.

Having no desire to meet mentalists who think they know best about a subject they haven't bothered to study to the same level I would follow current advice, personally.

[vonhosen]

waremark said:

vonhosen said:

The Taxi can be hailed from the street & pull up to pick up the passenger, uber can't.

Is that relevant to the use of bus lanes? They are both similar kinds of public transport, in terms of ease of use calling on an app has become a more convenient way of hailing than standing out in the cold and holding up an arm.

I am now wondering what the logic is of allowing taxis to use bus lanes at all.

Of course it's relevant, how else are they going to safely pick up a pedestrian on the footway when hailed without being in the bus lane?