Gear changes with clutch delay valve

[waremark]

james_gt3rs said:

waremark said:

I think my style means I am not aware of these devices. How would I know which cars I have driven have them?

Do a non rev matched downshift by banging off the clutch.

It would be tough to bring myself to do that!

[p1esk]

waremark said:

james_gt3rs said:

waremark said:

I think my style means I am not aware of these devices. How would I know which cars I have driven have them?

Do a non rev matched downshift by banging off the clutch.

It would be tough to bring myself to do that!

Yes, me too.

Actually, I thought the purpose of the clutch delay valve was to prevent us trying to make a quick start by banging a lot of revs on and releasing the clutch pedal very quickly. To my mind that's a pretty rough way to treat a car and I don't think I would ever want to treat a car like that.

[_Neal_]

p1esk said:

waremark said:

james_gt3rs said:

waremark said:

I think my style means I am not aware of these devices. How would I know which cars I have driven have them?

Do a non rev matched downshift by banging off the clutch.

It would be tough to bring myself to do that!

Yes, me too.

Actually, I thought the purpose of the clutch delay valve was to prevent us trying to make a quick start by banging a lot of revs on and releasing the clutch pedal very quickly. To my mind that's a pretty rough way to treat a car and I don't think I would ever want to treat a car like that.

Agreed - I'd always understood a cdv is to prevent drivetrain shock if you "dropped" the clutch hard. Removing the cdv is (as said above) a very common mod on E36 and E46 M3s (amongst others).

[waremark]

_Neal_ said:

Removing the cdv is (as said above) a very common mod on E36 and E46 M3s (amongst others).

I had both of the above back in the day and was not aware of the CDV.

[_Neal_]

waremark said:

I had both of the above back in the day and was not aware of the CDV.

Me neither (had the E36)! Can only think it's down to driving style.

[MarkwG]

p1esk said:

waremark said:

james_gt3rs said:

waremark said:

I think my style means I am not aware of these devices. How would I know which cars I have driven have them?

Do a non rev matched downshift by banging off the clutch.

It would be tough to bring myself to do that!

Yes, me too.

Actually, I thought the purpose of the clutch delay valve was to prevent us trying to make a quick start by banging a lot of revs on and releasing the clutch pedal very quickly. To my mind that's a pretty rough way to treat a car and I don't think I would ever want to treat a car like that.

Is this in the wrong section...?

[p1esk]

MarkwG said:

p1esk said:

waremark said:

james_gt3rs said:

waremark said:

I think my style means I am not aware of these devices. How would I know which cars I have driven have them?

Do a non rev matched downshift by banging off the clutch.

It would be tough to bring myself to do that!

Yes, me too.

Actually, I thought the purpose of the clutch delay valve was to prevent us trying to make a quick start by banging a lot of revs on and releasing the clutch pedal very quickly. To my mind that's a pretty rough way to treat a car and I don't think I would ever want to treat a car like that.

Is this in the wrong section...?

I don't think so. This forum is concerned with advanced driving which, IMHO, should include some pretty swift and sprited driving, but that need not and should not entail being brutal with the machinery. Well that's just my view of it, and you may of course disagree.

[Somewhatfoolish]

Regardless of what the purpose of the CDV may be, one effect of it is to prevent one style of mechanically sympathetic gear change, so can't see why it shouldn't be in this section (it's the obvious section for me as posters in this section are more likely to care about smooth gear changes).

I tried today the opposite of what I did yesterday - changing gear by matching the revs and releasing the clutch as quickly as possible - something I have no problem doing in cars without a CDV. This was horrific, every single change a double jerk. So my own mind is made up and I'm going to get the CDV removed, I see no point in it as I am not in the habit of clutch dumping and nor do I lend my cars to nobs.

[Reg Local]

Why did you try that when almost every post in this thread is advising you to do exactly the opposite?

If you simply slow down your release of the clutch, the valve won't be a problem.

[james_gt3rs]

Reg Local said:

Why did you try that when almost every post in this thread is advising you to do exactly the opposite?

If you simply slow down your release of the clutch, the valve won't be a problem.

I think what he's saying is that when you're used to a car where you don't do that it's annoying. In the same way you can get used to a laggy throttle or over-servoed brake.

[Bennet]

The problem with the clutch delay valve, IMO, isn't so much that it's impossible to learn to drive around it, but that it seems to remove the "feel" from the clutch by messing with the direct connection between what you're doing with the pedal and what's going on at the plates. Not so much that there's an obvious x second delay, but enough that it just stops the whole thing being instinctive because there's no longer a consistent relationship between pedal position and bite point. I hate it.

[Ekona]

I took my CDV out on my BMW E63, it was doing my head. Trouble was it was so hit and miss, sometimes it would be fine and others it would make me look like a rank amateur.

[MarkwG]

p1esk said:

I don't think so. This forum is concerned with advanced driving which, IMHO, should include some pretty swift and sprited driving, but that need not and should not entail being brutal with the machinery. Well that's just my view of it, and you may of course disagree.

IMHO too, but it seems to me the discussion revolves around removing equipment designed to protect the clutch so rushed & unmatched gear changes will feel "better"? Sounds like the opposite of advanced to me. In my experience, the quickest drivers are the smoothest, regardless of the machine.

[Jonno02]

Reg Local said:

Why did you try that when almost every post in this thread is advising you to do exactly the opposite?

If you simply slow down your release of the clutch, the valve won't be a problem.

Pretty much the unanimous internet opinion on CDV's is that they are the devil.

Of course, your opinion on 'driving style' overrides the OP's opinion of his own machinery.

[WillG]

Had a Z4 with a cdv. Really wasn't an issue in the slightest, and that was driven in a 'spirited fashion'.

IMHO part of being an 'advanced driver' (or whatever) is being able to adapt your driving style to suit whatever you're driving, for ultimate smoothness/progress/whatever. Dont forget we're talking about a modern mass produced car that's been designed to be driven a 15 year old learner, to an 96 year with osteoporosis! Not some kind of ancient agricultural equipment.....

[Somewhatfoolish]

Reg Local said:

Why did you try that when almost every post in this thread is advising you to do exactly the opposite?

If you simply slow down your release of the clutch, the valve won't be a problem.

I was trying out one extreme.

One of the things you have mentioned (in my own words) is that one of the best things about the system is it provides a safe + progressive method of driving that a police driver will fallback to when under pressure for whatever reasons.

In a similar way, quick, smooth, and correctly matched gear changes are how I was taught to do it and are what I will fallback to instinctively in a 'situation'.

I'm sure I could retrain myself to change gear more slowly and do it so often so it eventually becomes my fallback - not sure that's best option for me though when I can just get rid of the CDV and focus on other areas of my driving which I think are in more need of improvment.

[IcedKiwi]

Somewhatfoolish said:

I'm sure I could retrain myself to change gear more slowly and do it so often so it eventually becomes my fallback - not sure that's best option for me though when I can just get rid of the CDV and focus on other areas of my driving which I think are in more need of improvment.

Makes sense and it's your car/driving development, but consider - The mark of a really good driver is being able to jump in any car and within ~30 minutes being able to drive it as well as any other. It's something I'm trying to improve upon but requires a lot of seat time in different cars.
It might not seem important to you at the moment but worth keeping in mind. If the opportunity to drive somebody else pride and joy arises, you'll want to do it justice CDV or not.

[Bennet]

IcedKiwi said:

The mark of a really good driver is being able to jump in any car and within ~30 minutes being able to drive it as well as any other.

Well there's a highly debatable claim...

[IcedKiwi]

Bennet said:

IcedKiwi said:

The mark of a really good driver is being able to jump in any car and within ~30 minutes being able to drive it as well as any other.

Well there's a highly debatable claim...

Well it's one mark and a skill that I covet, having had people jump in my car and drive it better than I after 4 years ownership.

[waremark]

Bennet said:

IcedKiwi said:

The mark of a really good driver is being able to jump in any car and within ~30 minutes being able to drive it as well as any other.

Well there's a highly debatable claim...

You are thinking that 30 minutes is far longer than should be needed? The best driving coaches deliver a superb performance in clients'cars within something much closer to 30 seconds.