Aborted overtakes
Discussion
akirk said:
when there is no oncoming vehicle you have to consider that something might come - and it could be a bike doing 90 ...
^ this. Many bikes can reach 90 in a blink. It's just a few millimetres of the throttle. This year's Fireblade SP, for example, can do 0 to 100 mph in 3 seconds. 
if you overtake considering the oncoming vehicle doing the limit, then you can abort safely if they're a bit over. Of course, it's not unreasonable to expect a speeder to slow down - while it's in the highway code not to make others brake, so is not speeding. Not that I'm against speeding, but if you do speed you need to be aware of it and prepared for people to make judgements based on the limit (of course, if they can see you, they have no excuse to pull out right infront of you).
vonhosen said:
johnao said:
vonhosen said:
I'd personally regard it as a mistake.
A part of my planning for the overtake is that if I'm going to go it should still be safe to complete even if a vehicle appears towards.
Once you've committed alongside, if you want to return behind the intended overtake you're left hoping they don't brake when you do to return.
When planning, and then committing to, any overtake:A part of my planning for the overtake is that if I'm going to go it should still be safe to complete even if a vehicle appears towards.
Once you've committed alongside, if you want to return behind the intended overtake you're left hoping they don't brake when you do to return.
You must be able to complete the overtake in less than half the distance seen to be clear.
This rule applies whatever the distance seen to be clear, however far or close the limit point.
There are circumstances where you can safely go past 50% visible distance.
For instance if you are approaching a ninety degree right hand bend ahead a vehicle towards will be travelling considerably slower than you with your overtake speed. In those circumstances you could safely use 51% of the visible space.
You need to consider the potential speed of an as yet unseen vehicle towards, but that doesn't result in a 'YOU MUST' complete the overtake in less than half the visible distance (although that may often be the case because of the potential speed of vehicles towards because of the topography).
SVS said:
This year's Fireblade SP, for example, can do 0 to 100 mph in 3 seconds.
Looks more like 0-100kph to me.Perhaps you've right. Though there are a number of bikes that can do 0-60 mph in around 2.5 seconds. They're common enough to expect to see one.
However, I'd argue that it's reasonable to allow for an oncoming fast bike, as there are plenty of 'em around.
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
...in that case, why not allow for an oncoming vehicle doing 100mph, or even 120, just to make sure?
That's up to you However, I'd argue that it's reasonable to allow for an oncoming fast bike, as there are plenty of 'em around.SVS said:
Perhaps you've right. Though there are a number of bikes that can do 0-60 mph in around 2.5 seconds. They're common enough to expect to see one.
However, I'd argue that it's reasonable to allow for an oncoming fast bike, as there are plenty of 'em around.
Doesn't it also depend where you are? If in regular hooning territory, at a time when there is not much traffic, an oncoming vehicle at 90 mph+ is much more likely than elsewhere.S. Gonzales Esq. said:
...in that case, why not allow for an oncoming vehicle doing 100mph, or even 120, just to make sure?
That's up to you However, I'd argue that it's reasonable to allow for an oncoming fast bike, as there are plenty of 'em around.I have driven around the Evo triangle a few times, at relatively sensible speeds, but I expect each bend to hide an oncoming lunatic and I would be very wary of overtaking anything unless I could see a very long way ahead indeed.
SVS said:
^ this. Many bikes can reach 90 in a blink. It's just a few millimetres of the throttle. This year's Fireblade SP, for example, can do 0 to 100 mph in 3 seconds.
OK, it's still bloody quick but that's 100KPH. 160kph (100mph) took about 6 seconds. The overall point still stands of course.MiggyA said:
SVS said:
^ this. Many bikes can reach 90 in a blink. It's just a few millimetres of the throttle. This year's Fireblade SP, for example, can do 0 to 100 mph in 3 seconds.
OK, it's still bloody quick but that's 100KPH. 160kph (100mph) took about 6 seconds. The overall point still stands of course.A quick superbike will do 0-150mph in 10 seconds over 1/4 mile. Not that you'd expect someone to ride like that on the road, of course.
Try this....
When forming your plan to overtake, factor in what happens if you meet yourself coming in the other direction? i.e. someone doing exactly the same as you but travelling towards you?
Best advice, if in doubt, there is no doubt, Don't overtake!
What do you plan to do with the 60 or so seconds you will save by making the overtake? That is if the lights aren't at red when you get there?
That's not even enough time to boil a kettle.....
When forming your plan to overtake, factor in what happens if you meet yourself coming in the other direction? i.e. someone doing exactly the same as you but travelling towards you?
Best advice, if in doubt, there is no doubt, Don't overtake!
What do you plan to do with the 60 or so seconds you will save by making the overtake? That is if the lights aren't at red when you get there?
That's not even enough time to boil a kettle.....
FlyingFin said:
Try this....
When forming your plan to overtake, factor in what happens if you meet yourself coming in the other direction? i.e. someone doing exactly the same as you but travelling towards you?
That's a bit of advice I've been given by police drivers which I take with a pinch of salt. As a civilian I might well meet someone coming the other way going a lot faster than me.When forming your plan to overtake, factor in what happens if you meet yourself coming in the other direction? i.e. someone doing exactly the same as you but travelling towards you?
FlyingFin said:
Best advice, if in doubt, there is no doubt, Don't overtake!
True. But equally, when there is no doubt as to the overtake being on. Go. If you are indecisive it makes it more difficult for anyone else, such as the guy behind also looking for an overtake, to anticipate your actions.FlyingFin said:
What do you plan to do with the 60 or so seconds you will save by making the overtake? That is if the lights aren't at red when you get there?
That's not even enough time to boil a kettle.....
The same I'd do with the 60 seconds I save by going when the light is green and it's safe, rather than by dithering for a minute.That's not even enough time to boil a kettle.....
Dr Jekyll said:
FlyingFin said:
Try this....
When forming your plan to overtake, factor in what happens if you meet yourself coming in the other direction? i.e. someone doing exactly the same as you but travelling towards you?
That's a bit of advice I've been given by police drivers which I take with a pinch of salt. As a civilian I might well meet someone coming the other way going a lot faster than me.When forming your plan to overtake, factor in what happens if you meet yourself coming in the other direction? i.e. someone doing exactly the same as you but travelling towards you?
FlyingFin said:
That is exactly the point the Police drivers are making....
But you take as much salt as you feel you need. Maybe it will help your driving ability on icy roads...
But you take as much salt as you feel you need. Maybe it will help your driving ability on icy roads...
I think this has been covered earlier in the thread.
This sort of attitude creates long queues of traffic on NSL roads with "trains" of vehicles following a slow moving front runner and nobody willing to overtake (mostly because they don't know how to / think overtaking must be dangerous / consider it rude etc etc), then if someone tries to overtake from further back some drivers will close up creating a potentially dangerous situation.
Overtaking may or may not confer a significant benefit for you as an individual in the circumstances but the same could be said for many driving manoeuvres - the difference here being that it is viewed as as unnecessary/hazardous but it's just another driving skill.
The benefits of overtaking can be clearly demonstrated on rural roads with low traffic density. For example, there is a route in Rutland that I know well - you may come across fewer than 10 vehicles in 30 miles and be able to overtake them all safely. If you stuck behind the first one you certainly wouldn't be looking at only a 60 second disadvantage, not to mention the enjoyment lost by being incapable of overtaking.
ETA: I'm not advocating any "optimistic" overtakes or risk taking but suggesting that there should be nothing more to overtakes than any other manoeuvre, such as pulling out of junctions or reversing out of your drive. Overtakes are perfectly safe if done correctly.
This sort of attitude creates long queues of traffic on NSL roads with "trains" of vehicles following a slow moving front runner and nobody willing to overtake (mostly because they don't know how to / think overtaking must be dangerous / consider it rude etc etc), then if someone tries to overtake from further back some drivers will close up creating a potentially dangerous situation.
Overtaking may or may not confer a significant benefit for you as an individual in the circumstances but the same could be said for many driving manoeuvres - the difference here being that it is viewed as as unnecessary/hazardous but it's just another driving skill.
The benefits of overtaking can be clearly demonstrated on rural roads with low traffic density. For example, there is a route in Rutland that I know well - you may come across fewer than 10 vehicles in 30 miles and be able to overtake them all safely. If you stuck behind the first one you certainly wouldn't be looking at only a 60 second disadvantage, not to mention the enjoyment lost by being incapable of overtaking.
ETA: I'm not advocating any "optimistic" overtakes or risk taking but suggesting that there should be nothing more to overtakes than any other manoeuvre, such as pulling out of junctions or reversing out of your drive. Overtakes are perfectly safe if done correctly.
Edited by DocSteve on Monday 27th November 00:26
DocSteve said:
I think this has been covered earlier in the thread.
This sort of attitude creates long queues of traffic on NSL roads with "trains" of vehicles following a slow moving front runner and nobody willing to overtake (mostly because they don't know how to / think overtaking must be dangerous / consider it rude etc etc), then if someone tries to overtake from further back some drivers will close up creating a potentially dangerous situation.
Overtaking may or may not confer a significant benefit for you as an individual in the circumstances but the same could be said for many driving manoeuvres - the difference here being that it is viewed as as unnecessary/hazardous but it's just another driving skill.
The benefits of overtaking can be clearly demonstrated on rural roads with low traffic density. For example, there is a route in Rutland that I know well - you may come across fewer than 10 vehicles in 30 miles and be able to overtake them all safely. If you stuck behind the first one you certainly wouldn't be looking at only a 60 second disadvantage, not to mention the enjoyment lost by being incapable of overtaking.
ETA: I'm not advocating any "optimistic" overtakes or risk taking but suggesting that there should be nothing more to overtakes than any other manoeuvre, such as pulling out of junctions or reversing out of your drive. Overtakes are perfectly safe if done correctly.
I don't see that someone personally not seeing there to be much to be gained from overtaking as inevitably leading to road trains in NSL roads (although I concede that attitude coupled with other undesirable traits may lead to it).This sort of attitude creates long queues of traffic on NSL roads with "trains" of vehicles following a slow moving front runner and nobody willing to overtake (mostly because they don't know how to / think overtaking must be dangerous / consider it rude etc etc), then if someone tries to overtake from further back some drivers will close up creating a potentially dangerous situation.
Overtaking may or may not confer a significant benefit for you as an individual in the circumstances but the same could be said for many driving manoeuvres - the difference here being that it is viewed as as unnecessary/hazardous but it's just another driving skill.
The benefits of overtaking can be clearly demonstrated on rural roads with low traffic density. For example, there is a route in Rutland that I know well - you may come across fewer than 10 vehicles in 30 miles and be able to overtake them all safely. If you stuck behind the first one you certainly wouldn't be looking at only a 60 second disadvantage, not to mention the enjoyment lost by being incapable of overtaking.
ETA: I'm not advocating any "optimistic" overtakes or risk taking but suggesting that there should be nothing more to overtakes than any other manoeuvre, such as pulling out of junctions or reversing out of your drive. Overtakes are perfectly safe if done correctly.
If you don't see a benefit for overtaking yourself, then you should be leaving sufficient gap in front for others to use it if they wish to.
Personally if I'm not looking to overtake vehicles ahead, for whatever reason, I'll be leaving a 4 sec plus gap in front as it affords me greater space, visibility & time, whilst at the same time allowing others a decent stop over gap should they wish to avail themselves of it (& should they avail themselves of it there is less likely to be any adverse impact for me because of the size of the space left for them).
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 27th November 19:51
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