Am i the only person who indicates?

[cmaguire]

Pica-Pica said:

.."But I'm intrigued by a different circumstance - if you're in a right-turn (or left-turn) only lane, do you keep your indicator going ? Particularly if you're in a queue of traffic waiting for a filter to go green ?"
.....
I indicate to go into a right turn lane. Once in it and I know I will be held up, I cancel. When the right turn only light changes, I start indicating again. This is a particular junction that I have in mind, and the pedestrian lights, and the bunches of flowers by the railings, remind some road users are more vulnerable than others.

Usually I will do the same, the only difference being that I may not start indicating again when the lights change as I have effectively established intent and the straight on lane may also be moving alongside when the lights change.
If I entered the lane and the lane was moving and I continued to clear the light I would probably be indicating throughout.

[Pica-Pica]

cmaguire said:

Pica-Pica said:

.."But I'm intrigued by a different circumstance - if you're in a right-turn (or left-turn) only lane, do you keep your indicator going ? Particularly if you're in a queue of traffic waiting for a filter to go green ?"
.....
I indicate to go into a right turn lane. Once in it and I know I will be held up, I cancel. When the right turn only light changes, I start indicating again. This is a particular junction that I have in mind, and the pedestrian lights, and the bunches of flowers by the railings, remind some road users are more vulnerable than others.

Usually I will do the same, the only difference being that I may not start indicating again when the lights change as I have effectively established intent and the straight on lane may also be moving alongside when the lights change.
If I entered the lane and the lane was moving and I continued to clear the light I would probably be indicating throughout.

As I said, that is as an additional signal to pedestrians. As I also said, there are indications (flowers) of a pedestrian fatality at the junction I have in mind.

[Nearlyretired]

I passed my test first time at 17, and passed my Advanced Test at 21.
Then became an ADI at 21,but gave up after two years.
After nearly forty years of driving I now find that the majority of drivers :
A.Don't care about anyone else
B.Are arrogant
C.Ignorant
and are generally cr.p at driving,but think they are above average!

End of rant!

[RobM77]

Nearlyretired said:

I passed my test first time at 17, and passed my Advanced Test at 21.
Then became an ADI at 21,but gave up after two years.
After nearly forty years of driving I now find that the majority of drivers :
A.Don't care about anyone else
B.Are arrogant
C.Ignorant
and are generally cr.p at driving,but think they are above average!

End of rant!

Agreed. It does seem odd to me that in repeated polls most drivers think they're above average, yet they can't even get the basics correct, like "mirror, signal manoeuvre" (at the most basic level, as taught for the basic test), or positioning their car at a junction. Why are people so keen to be good drivers that they over-inflate their abilities? Ask a squash player how good he is and you usually get a self deprecating answer like "oh, I just play for fun" or "a bit rubbish, but I enjoy it", but ask how good a driver someone is and they almost always say they're very good. Is that because squash is competitive, so you find out how good or bad you are, but driving on the road for most people it's just them and they never evaluate their driving? Is it because people are blind to their own faults, but have pet hates that they "see everyone doing"?

[Dr Jekyll]

RobM77 said:

Agreed. It does seem odd to me that in repeated polls most drivers think they're above average, yet they can't even get the basics correct, like "mirror, signal manoeuvre" (at the most basic level, as taught for the basic test), or positioning their car at a junction. Why are people so keen to be good drivers that they over-inflate their abilities? Ask a squash player how good he is and you usually get a self deprecating answer like "oh, I just play for fun" or "a bit rubbish, but I enjoy it", but ask how good a driver someone is and they almost always say they're very good. Is that because squash is competitive, so you find out how good or bad you are, but driving on the road for most people it's just them and they never evaluate their driving? Is it because people are blind to their own faults, but have pet hates that they "see everyone doing"?

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they are a good driver other than in a motorsport context. I also suspect that most drivers are above the mean average and there isn't a bell shaped distribution. More like around 90% vaguely competent and doing their best most of the time and 10% utterly hopeless.

[akirk]

RobM77 said:

Agreed. It does seem odd to me that in repeated polls most drivers think they're above average, yet they can't even get the basics correct, like "mirror, signal manoeuvre" (at the most basic level, as taught for the basic test), or positioning their car at a junction. Why are people so keen to be good drivers that they over-inflate their abilities? Ask a squash player how good he is and you usually get a self deprecating answer like "oh, I just play for fun" or "a bit rubbish, but I enjoy it", but ask how good a driver someone is and they almost always say they're very good. Is that because squash is competitive, so you find out how good or bad you are, but driving on the road for most people it's just them and they never evaluate their driving? Is it because people are blind to their own faults, but have pet hates that they "see everyone doing"?

I think that you are right that it is very difficult in driving to quantify your 'level' or ability - against yourself or others, perhaps the only way to do that is through external coaching or instruction where someone independent can see your progress against specific goals over time. Even then, the setting of the goals is a matter of personal opinion - how do you define a 'better' gear change or corner or overtake etc.

Having said all of that - the vast majority of those I know in the AD world (quite a few as I run AD Hub) have a common humility around their personal ability and journey - I think that there is a common misconception for those doing IAM / RoSPA (and I was there 20+ years ago) in their pleasure at passing - look I am now an advanced driver, I even have a certificate saying so! However, those who progress further soon realise that the more you learn, the more awareness there is of how long a journey you are on, a how far you still have to go... which does in many cases lead to considerable personal humility...

don't confuse that with people having discussions online - this forum is an area for intellectual (one hopes!) discussion, often in the abstract and naturally lends itself to people positing thoughts / ideas / etc. as absolutes... that can give a very different impression of someone to how they actually drive / think about their driving...

[Solocle]

akirk said:

I think that you are right that it is very difficult in driving to quantify your 'level' or ability - against yourself or others, perhaps the only way to do that is through external coaching or instruction where someone independent can see your progress against specific goals over time. Even then, the setting of the goals is a matter of personal opinion - how do you define a 'better' gear change or corner or overtake etc.

Having said all of that - the vast majority of those I know in the AD world (quite a few as I run AD Hub) have a common humility around their personal ability and journey - I think that there is a common misconception for those doing IAM / RoSPA (and I was there 20+ years ago) in their pleasure at passing - look I am now an advanced driver, I even have a certificate saying so! However, those who progress further soon realise that the more you learn, the more awareness there is of how long a journey you are on, a how far you still have to go... which does in many cases lead to considerable personal humility...

don't confuse that with people having discussions online - this forum is an area for intellectual (one hopes!) discussion, often in the abstract and naturally lends itself to people positing thoughts / ideas / etc. as absolutes... that can give a very different impression of someone to how they actually drive / think about their driving...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Krug...

[RobM77]

akirk said:

RobM77 said:

Agreed. It does seem odd to me that in repeated polls most drivers think they're above average, yet they can't even get the basics correct, like "mirror, signal manoeuvre" (at the most basic level, as taught for the basic test), or positioning their car at a junction. Why are people so keen to be good drivers that they over-inflate their abilities? Ask a squash player how good he is and you usually get a self deprecating answer like "oh, I just play for fun" or "a bit rubbish, but I enjoy it", but ask how good a driver someone is and they almost always say they're very good. Is that because squash is competitive, so you find out how good or bad you are, but driving on the road for most people it's just them and they never evaluate their driving? Is it because people are blind to their own faults, but have pet hates that they "see everyone doing"?

I think that you are right that it is very difficult in driving to quantify your 'level' or ability - against yourself or others, perhaps the only way to do that is through external coaching or instruction where someone independent can see your progress against specific goals over time. Even then, the setting of the goals is a matter of personal opinion - how do you define a 'better' gear change or corner or overtake etc.

Having said all of that - the vast majority of those I know in the AD world (quite a few as I run AD Hub) have a common humility around their personal ability and journey - I think that there is a common misconception for those doing IAM / RoSPA (and I was there 20+ years ago) in their pleasure at passing - look I am now an advanced driver, I even have a certificate saying so! However, those who progress further soon realise that the more you learn, the more awareness there is of how long a journey you are on, a how far you still have to go... which does in many cases lead to considerable personal humility...

don't confuse that with people having discussions online - this forum is an area for intellectual (one hopes!) discussion, often in the abstract and naturally lends itself to people positing thoughts / ideas / etc. as absolutes... that can give a very different impression of someone to how they actually drive / think about their driving...

I like the general principle of Advanced Driving, which is to be self critical. For example, AD has taught me to do my own commentary now and then, and I learn from that.

[akirk]

Solocle said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Krug...

There is validity in what they say - however it is not an absolute, and the evidence that for some people there is a misconception does not prevent other people being accurate

Arguably the very awareness of the Dunning Kruger Effect should be self-negating

in fact for many of those further down their journey of improving as a driver, there is more complexity in understanding this... Dunning & Kruger imply that the inaccuracy and under-estimation of competence in the more capable is because they see something as easy and assume that it would be easy for others - I would argue that for the more experienced (in most disciplines / skills) there is additionally an increasing understanding of the length of journey and where one is on that path - which itself means that you rate yourself lower...

so the learner sees the path towards the test and therefore getting there is to complete the journey
the person doing IAM / RoSPA sees a longer path towards the advanced driving test - and sees the journey finishing there
the person going beyond may well start to see that it is a journey that never finishes and what appeared to be a short path is suddenly infinitely long

so you can I think have different perceptions at each stage - put each in terms of self and journey - not as a comparator to others.
in reality I suspect that most people who are further along that journey would believe that they are 'better' than the norm (otherwise, why do what they do), but balance that with feeling that they are way off what they could be - so in fact have a mixed assessment based on Dunning Kruger assessment against others / their own valuation based on observation of what could be

[anonymous-user]

Had someone try to overtake me while going straight ahead at a t junction that becomes a single track road without so much as an indication. Was someone pulling out of said junction, who was indicating correctly.

Same chap went round the next cross road turning right without indicating and at the following roundabout which his exit was blocked by a blue light stationary police car. Again no indication.

Looking back, I could have indicated right when moving off as the traffic was at around 1-3mph and the chap could have assumed that I was turning left without indication.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 5th June 19:24