Cyclists undertaking
Discussion
Stickyfinger said:
1. Not a lot
2. A lot
As you point out....I need the extra education....so please enlighten me.
2. A lot
As you point out....I need the extra education....so please enlighten me.
You've finally grasped it, well done. Car hits bicycle at speed, probably fatal. Bicycle hits car while filtering, possible scratch on the paintwork.Completely different scenarios.
WinstonWolf said:
Stickyfinger said:
1. Not a lot
2. A lot
As you point out....I need the extra education....so please enlighten me.
2. A lot
As you point out....I need the extra education....so please enlighten me.
You've finally grasped it, well done. Car hits bicycle at speed, probably fatal. Bicycle hits car while filtering, possible scratch on the paintwork.Completely different scenarios.
OK....now lets go here, lets try removing the physics shall we.
@ 25mph, me overtaking, cyclist falls under my wheels = result ?
@ 25mph, cyclist undertaking, cyclist falls under my wheels = result ?
It is disappointing that such elementary discussions appear necessary in the advanced driving forum. Stickyfingers has a seemingly unshakeable point of view which to anyone that knows anything about safe driving will be recognised as a driver development need.
I posted something on the first page of this thread with my suggestions to the OP, including detailing the hazards of (and to) cyclists passing vehicles on the offside (in addition to the imprudence and inherent dangers of attempting nearside undertakes).
Firstly, it is plainly silly to infer that a cyclist overtaking motor vehicles moving at a speed lower than a pedal cyclist can reasonably achieve is the same as a large, stable motor vehicle overtaking an exposed, vulnerable cyclist when the motor vehicle may be travelling at any speed. The speed differential when a cyclist is overtaking a moving motor vehicle is likely to be far lower. That is not to say that the cyclist should do this without due care and consideration, as I outlined in my first post, but it is not generally necessary for such a wide gap to be maintained.
The argument about safety of motorcyclists is flawed and distracts from the primary argument that it is reasonable to block pedal cyclists, which is potentially dangerous/conflict inducing and will not improve the safety of filtering motorcyclists.
It is troubling that someone apparently interested enough in driving to post on this forum holds such views. Ideally I would like to hope that they reflect on some of the sensible discussions about it on here.
I posted something on the first page of this thread with my suggestions to the OP, including detailing the hazards of (and to) cyclists passing vehicles on the offside (in addition to the imprudence and inherent dangers of attempting nearside undertakes).
Firstly, it is plainly silly to infer that a cyclist overtaking motor vehicles moving at a speed lower than a pedal cyclist can reasonably achieve is the same as a large, stable motor vehicle overtaking an exposed, vulnerable cyclist when the motor vehicle may be travelling at any speed. The speed differential when a cyclist is overtaking a moving motor vehicle is likely to be far lower. That is not to say that the cyclist should do this without due care and consideration, as I outlined in my first post, but it is not generally necessary for such a wide gap to be maintained.
The argument about safety of motorcyclists is flawed and distracts from the primary argument that it is reasonable to block pedal cyclists, which is potentially dangerous/conflict inducing and will not improve the safety of filtering motorcyclists.
It is troubling that someone apparently interested enough in driving to post on this forum holds such views. Ideally I would like to hope that they reflect on some of the sensible discussions about it on here.
Stickyfinger said:
DocSteve said:
It is disappointing that such elementary discussions appear necessary in the advanced driving forum. Stickyfingers has a seemingly unshakeable point of view which to anyone that knows anything about safe driving will be recognised as a driver development need.
hahahaha
I posted something on the first page of this thread with my suggestions to the OP, including detailing the hazards of (and to) cyclists passing vehicles on the offside (in addition to the imprudence and inherent dangers of attempting nearside undertakes).
that hazard is increased if the space between the two lines of traffic is reduced.... is that not the case if cars are spaced 1.5meters from the kerb ?
Firstly, it is plainly silly to infer that a cyclist overtaking motor vehicles moving at a speed lower than a pedal cyclist can reasonably achieve is the same as a large, stable motor vehicle overtaking an exposed, vulnerable cyclist when the motor vehicle may be travelling at any speed. The speed differential when a cyclist is overtaking a moving motor vehicle is likely to be far lower. That is not to say that the cyclist should do this without due care and consideration, as I outlined in my first post, but it is not generally necessary for such a wide gap to be maintained.
why silly, the danger from a resulting fall is the same
speed differential should also consider the braking capability of a vehicle
The argument about safety of motorcyclists is flawed and distracts from the primary argument that it is reasonable to block pedal cyclists, which is potentially dangerous/conflict inducing and will not improve the safety of filtering motorcyclists.
you fail to notice the closure of the safe space between the lines of traffic which squeeze the space for central filtering by M/Bikes
It is troubling that someone apparently interested enough in driving to post on this forum holds such views. Ideally I would like to hope that they reflect on some of the sensible discussions about it on here.
troubling that every action I recommend protects both Cyclists and Bikers ?....very strange conclusion
hahahaha
I posted something on the first page of this thread with my suggestions to the OP, including detailing the hazards of (and to) cyclists passing vehicles on the offside (in addition to the imprudence and inherent dangers of attempting nearside undertakes).
that hazard is increased if the space between the two lines of traffic is reduced.... is that not the case if cars are spaced 1.5meters from the kerb ?
Firstly, it is plainly silly to infer that a cyclist overtaking motor vehicles moving at a speed lower than a pedal cyclist can reasonably achieve is the same as a large, stable motor vehicle overtaking an exposed, vulnerable cyclist when the motor vehicle may be travelling at any speed. The speed differential when a cyclist is overtaking a moving motor vehicle is likely to be far lower. That is not to say that the cyclist should do this without due care and consideration, as I outlined in my first post, but it is not generally necessary for such a wide gap to be maintained.
why silly, the danger from a resulting fall is the same
speed differential should also consider the braking capability of a vehicle
The argument about safety of motorcyclists is flawed and distracts from the primary argument that it is reasonable to block pedal cyclists, which is potentially dangerous/conflict inducing and will not improve the safety of filtering motorcyclists.
you fail to notice the closure of the safe space between the lines of traffic which squeeze the space for central filtering by M/Bikes
It is troubling that someone apparently interested enough in driving to post on this forum holds such views. Ideally I would like to hope that they reflect on some of the sensible discussions about it on here.
troubling that every action I recommend protects both Cyclists and Bikers ?....very strange conclusion
Stickyfinger said:
DocSteve said:
Firstly, it is plainly silly to infer that a cyclist overtaking motor vehicles moving at a speed lower than a pedal cyclist can reasonably achieve is the same as a large, stable motor vehicle overtaking an exposed, vulnerable cyclist when the motor vehicle may be travelling at any speed. The speed differential when a cyclist is overtaking a moving motor vehicle is likely to be far lower. That is not to say that the cyclist should do this without due care and consideration, as I outlined in my first post, but it is not generally necessary for such a wide gap to be maintained.
why silly, the danger from a resulting fall is the sameYes, I shouldn't have risen to the bait. Still, I suspect that he (presume he) actually believes what he is saying and drives accordingly.....
Consensus summary then - deliberately blocking cyclists is dangerous and the arguments advanced for it are specious at their very best. End of the matter.
Consensus summary then - deliberately blocking cyclists is dangerous and the arguments advanced for it are specious at their very best. End of the matter.
DocSteve said:
Yes, I shouldn't have risen to the bait. Still, I suspect that he (presume he) actually believes what he is saying and drives accordingly.....
Consensus summary then - deliberately blocking cyclists is dangerous and the arguments advanced for it are specious at their very best. End of the matter.
Absolutely agreed. Consensus summary then - deliberately blocking cyclists is dangerous and the arguments advanced for it are specious at their very best. End of the matter.
Stickyfinger said:
BLOCK them from passing because you do not want them to be in the "safe space" for fear of being prosecuted
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/...
I like this. The 'bars on my Fatbike are 780mm wide, so I already project into that 750mm on the nearside by about 390mm!https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/...
Edited by Stickyfinger on Thursday 14th September 11:56
That said, I experience very few issues with other road users when riding it on-road (which is rare.) It has a lot of... Presence.
And as previously stated; overtake on the outside when cycling. It's where drivers expect to be overtaken.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Totally right, summed it up nicely!Basically you are wasting energy worrying about what a cyclist will do, they are hard to predict at the best of times.
I ride bikes with pedals and engines as well as driving cars, and to save confusion between the different road users,we should all think what we want to do, not second-guess what others might do.
Giving way to users who don't have the right of way is annoying and doesn't help traffic flow.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff