Cyclists undertaking
Discussion
Stickyfinger said:
BUT I do, I always give them the space they need......
but I do not want a cyclist to put themselves into that danger zone for their safety and my licence
I don't think you need have any fear of prosecution if a cyclist undertakes you. But if there's nothing to stop you from giving them a safer space in which to do so then why wouldn't you move to the right anyway?but I do not want a cyclist to put themselves into that danger zone for their safety and my licence
IroningMan said:
I don't think you need have any fear of prosecution if a cyclist undertakes you. But if there's nothing to stop you from giving them a safer space in which to do so then why wouldn't you move to the right anyway?
1.5 meters would put me into oncoming traffic.....any cyclist entering that "safe space" should like any car driver, be prosecuted.(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)
Stickyfinger said:
1.5 meters would put me into oncoming traffic.....any cyclist entering that "safe space" should like any car driver, be prosecuted.
(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)
go to a train station, walk between the yellow line and the edge of the platform whilst a train is stationary, that's how dangerous filtering alongside stationary traffic is, now do the same when an express comes thundering through.(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)
Stickyfinger said:
BUT I do, I always give them the space they need......
but I do not want a cyclist to put themselves into that danger zone for their safety and my licence
The differences that you wilfully fail to recognise are that the cyclist cannot choose the distance at which a car overtakes them, but they can choose the size of gap through which they are happy to undertake stationary/slow traffic, and that there is a large disparity in the risk of a driver or cyclist being injured or killed in a collision between a car and a bicycle.but I do not want a cyclist to put themselves into that danger zone for their safety and my licence
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make when posting the photo showing the safe gap recommended by police when overtaking a cyclist. If there have been prosecutions of drivers because a cyclist performed a close undertake, I would be interested to see the details.
HardtopManual said:
The differences that you wilfully fail to recognise are that the cyclist cannot choose the distance at which a car overtakes them, but they can choose the size of gap through which they are happy to undertake stationary/slow traffic, and that there is a large disparity in the risk of a driver or cyclist being injured or killed in a collision between a car and a bicycle.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make when posting the photo showing the safe gap recommended by police when overtaking a cyclist. If there have been prosecutions of drivers because a cyclist performed a close undertake, I would be interested to see the details.
Why does it matter who chooses, why does it matter who is overtaking/undertaking who ?....if the space between a moving car and a cyclist is only safe @ 1.5meters then it should be 1.5meters for any reason not just a car overtaking.I'm not sure what point you're trying to make when posting the photo showing the safe gap recommended by police when overtaking a cyclist. If there have been prosecutions of drivers because a cyclist performed a close undertake, I would be interested to see the details.
I happen to agree that the 1.5meter gap between a car and a cyclist is only just safe @1.5meters, I try to give more when over taking.
What if they hit a drain and fall under my wheels when undertaking closer than 1.5meters ?.....who do you think will get the blame for their death/harm ? ..you can bet a penny & a pound it will be me. As such, I will block them when I am moving as it is not safe as demonstrated by the police image.
JustinF said:
Stickyfinger said:
1.5 meters would put me into oncoming traffic.....any cyclist entering that "safe space" should like any car driver, be prosecuted.
(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)
go to a train station, walk between the yellow line and the edge of the platform whilst a train is stationary, that's how dangerous filtering alongside stationary traffic is, now do the same when an express comes thundering through.(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)
Garybee said:
That is probably the best analogy that I have ever heard.
Maybe....for passing a stationary car but they can all f
k off if I am moving. I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).
We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".
The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.
Wherever cyclists discuss motorists or vice versa, there's a polarisation of views - on both sides.
Cyclists vs cars get better press because they're easier to kill or maim, bluntly, in the same way the unfortunate pedestrian in the recent court case was killed by an errant cyclist. But both drivers and cyclists (and pedestrians) have a role to play in not contributing to the KSI statistics. Cyclists can pass cars at a distance whereby a door opening won't hit them, or by cycling down the nearside at a speed where a carelessly opened door won't stop them so suddenly it's dangerous. Car drivers can anticipate better, and open doors more carefully whether that's looking before opening or reaching a là Dutch. I will finish my mini-rant by saying that there's probably a higher onus on the driver as they're a bigger weapon and need to use it more responsibly.
However, for the majority of road users, thinking like the above is simply too difficult / too much bother that we end up in these repetitive cycles (pardon me, that was inadvertent) of blame and defence.
Cyclists vs cars get better press because they're easier to kill or maim, bluntly, in the same way the unfortunate pedestrian in the recent court case was killed by an errant cyclist. But both drivers and cyclists (and pedestrians) have a role to play in not contributing to the KSI statistics. Cyclists can pass cars at a distance whereby a door opening won't hit them, or by cycling down the nearside at a speed where a carelessly opened door won't stop them so suddenly it's dangerous. Car drivers can anticipate better, and open doors more carefully whether that's looking before opening or reaching a là Dutch. I will finish my mini-rant by saying that there's probably a higher onus on the driver as they're a bigger weapon and need to use it more responsibly.
However, for the majority of road users, thinking like the above is simply too difficult / too much bother that we end up in these repetitive cycles (pardon me, that was inadvertent) of blame and defence.
Stickyfinger said:
Maybe....for passing a stationary car but they can all fk off if I am moving.
I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).
We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".
The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.
My immediate thought is that driving isn't for you, but I also know that there are millions like you and that's just the way it is.k off if I am moving. I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).
We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".
The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.
On my daily commute in and out of Brum, we don't have cyclists to contend with because conditions and standards of driving are so bad.
But that doesn't stop a great many drivers from trying to block a great many of other drivers.
It makes me laugh because we're all going the same way at the same time at much the same speed, but at least half of them attempt to block anyone else from changing lane or making progress or whatever.
It's a mindset that i deplore and will never join.
Stickyfinger said:
Why does it matter who chooses, why does it matter who is overtaking/undertaking who ?....if the space between a moving car and a cyclist is only safe @ 1.5meters then it should be 1.5meters for any reason not just a car overtaking.
I happen to agree that the 1.5meter gap between a car and a cyclist is only just safe @1.5meters, I try to give more when over taking.
What if they hit a drain and fall under my wheels when undertaking closer than 1.5meters ?.....who do you think will get the blame for their death/harm ? ..you can bet a penny & a pound it will be me. As such, I will block them when I am moving as it is not safe as demonstrated by the police image.
There's the rub. You want to stop people getting ahead of you and you've lit upon something that makes you feel you can justify doing so on 'safety' grounds. I don't think you'll get much support for your dogmatic road captaincy on here.I happen to agree that the 1.5meter gap between a car and a cyclist is only just safe @1.5meters, I try to give more when over taking.
What if they hit a drain and fall under my wheels when undertaking closer than 1.5meters ?.....who do you think will get the blame for their death/harm ? ..you can bet a penny & a pound it will be me. As such, I will block them when I am moving as it is not safe as demonstrated by the police image.
Stickyfinger said:
What if they hit a drain and fall under my wheels when undertaking closer than 1.5meters ?.....who do you think will get the blame for their death/harm ?
If you can point to a case where a driver has been prosecuted for this, please do so.Stickyfinger said:
I will block them when I am moving as it is not safe as demonstrated by the police image.
What does this "blocking" constitute? Given that a bike could probably squeeze through a gap of less than 0.5m if the rider chose to (I wouldn't), you must drive in the gutter.Stickyfinger said:
We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian
Said pedestrian stepped out in front of the cyclist while looking at her phone. If she had been hit by a car, most would have wondered why she stepped out in front of a car without looking. Said cyclist has an attitude problem and has paid the price for it.Stickyfinger said:
constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".
Here you reveal the true basis for your comments. You consider people who sometimes ride a bike to be part of some entirely separate species. This is how you rationalise the way you treat them on the roads. In reality, most cyclists also own a car (in fact regular cyclists are more likely to own at least two cars than non-cyclists). As someone who drives, rides and walks regularly, it has become obvious to me that other road users expect a far higher standard of conduct when I am riding a bike than when I am driving or walking. I experience way more verbal abuse and bullying when riding a bike.dvenman said:
Wherever cyclists discuss motorists or vice versa, there's a polarisation of views - on both sides.
True but only (noisy) minorities reside at the poles. This is in fact the same minorities in a car or on a bike who have cohabitation issues on the road.They're incapable of critical thinking, have blinkered views and obvious bias. There is a member of the anti-cycling polarised minority who is easy to spot in this very thread. Just count the posts.
A bit of insight on this from the city of spires. Obviously, traffic here is so bad that in places cycling is fastest from A to B (so like London). I encountered a van driver who was sat in such a way that the cycle lane was semi-occluded. So, I passed on the offside, rather than risk taking out his wing mirror. Of course, the traffic started moving and he got really pissy about it (dangerous overtake obstruction, like car drivers sometimes encounter). At the same time, I see near side overtaking with disdain. So, if I’m in a cycle lane, I will pass on the near side - but, when the traffic starts to move, I complete the ongoing pass and fall in behind the next vehicle. That way, I’m not undertaking a moving vehicle. And of course, I treat large vehicles with respect.
Stickyfinger said:
Maybe....for passing a stationary car but they can all fk off if I am moving.
I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).
We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".
The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.
You're an idiot and a symptom of why this country is fk off if I am moving. I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).
We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".
The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.
ked on the roads.heebeegeetee said:
Because you only follow the Myway Code, you make stuff up and you police the roads.
You're one of millions who do likewise, tens of millions possibly, and it's why the roads are fked imo.
The Police say 1.5meter is the safe passing distance between a moving car and a bike do they not ?You're one of millions who do likewise, tens of millions possibly, and it's why the roads are f
ked imo. Stickyfinger said:
The Police say 1.5meter is the safe passing distance between a moving car and a bike do they not ?
As far as I'm aware, no, not at all. I don't think I've seen that said anywhere. The campaign is about drivers passing cyclists. Nothing else, as far as I'm aware, nothing about undertaking or anything else that you've created for your Myway Code, it's about drivers passing cyclists.
Apparently it has resulted or contributed to a 20% reduction in casualty figures in the first year of operation, and the operation has been hailed a success. https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB69...
http://www.itv.com/news/central/2017-09-18/underco...
No doubt you will continue to bandy words to resist and undermine these efforts to reduce numbers of people killed and injured.
As a motorist I have no difficulty in understanding what is trying to be achieved here, I have no problem whatsoever with it, it makes not a scrap of difference to me anyway because I have manners, but I know there are millions like you who will continue to make life as unpleasant as possible for as many as possible.
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