Cyclists undertaking

Author
Discussion

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

37 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
IroningMan said:
We get it - you don't like being asked to leave a sensible gap when overtaking cyclists.
BUT I do, I always give them the space they need......

but I do not want a cyclist to put themselves into that danger zone for their safety and my licence

IroningMan

9,132 posts

178 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
BUT I do, I always give them the space they need......

but I do not want a cyclist to put themselves into that danger zone for their safety and my licence
I don't think you need have any fear of prosecution if a cyclist undertakes you. But if there's nothing to stop you from giving them a safer space in which to do so then why wouldn't you move to the right anyway?

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

37 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
IroningMan said:
I don't think you need have any fear of prosecution if a cyclist undertakes you. But if there's nothing to stop you from giving them a safer space in which to do so then why wouldn't you move to the right anyway?
1.5 meters would put me into oncoming traffic.....any cyclist entering that "safe space" should like any car driver, be prosecuted.

(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)

JustinF

5,973 posts

135 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
1.5 meters would put me into oncoming traffic.....any cyclist entering that "safe space" should like any car driver, be prosecuted.

(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)
go to a train station, walk between the yellow line and the edge of the platform whilst a train is stationary, that's how dangerous filtering alongside stationary traffic is, now do the same when an express comes thundering through.

HardtopManual

906 posts

98 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
BUT I do, I always give them the space they need......

but I do not want a cyclist to put themselves into that danger zone for their safety and my licence
The differences that you wilfully fail to recognise are that the cyclist cannot choose the distance at which a car overtakes them, but they can choose the size of gap through which they are happy to undertake stationary/slow traffic, and that there is a large disparity in the risk of a driver or cyclist being injured or killed in a collision between a car and a bicycle.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make when posting the photo showing the safe gap recommended by police when overtaking a cyclist. If there have been prosecutions of drivers because a cyclist performed a close undertake, I would be interested to see the details.
Advertisement

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

37 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
HardtopManual said:
The differences that you wilfully fail to recognise are that the cyclist cannot choose the distance at which a car overtakes them, but they can choose the size of gap through which they are happy to undertake stationary/slow traffic, and that there is a large disparity in the risk of a driver or cyclist being injured or killed in a collision between a car and a bicycle.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make when posting the photo showing the safe gap recommended by police when overtaking a cyclist. If there have been prosecutions of drivers because a cyclist performed a close undertake, I would be interested to see the details.
Why does it matter who chooses, why does it matter who is overtaking/undertaking who ?....if the space between a moving car and a cyclist is only safe @ 1.5meters then it should be 1.5meters for any reason not just a car overtaking.

I happen to agree that the 1.5meter gap between a car and a cyclist is only just safe @1.5meters, I try to give more when over taking.

What if they hit a drain and fall under my wheels when undertaking closer than 1.5meters ?.....who do you think will get the blame for their death/harm ? ..you can bet a penny & a pound it will be me. As such, I will block them when I am moving as it is not safe as demonstrated by the police image.

Brads67

803 posts

30 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
Drivers tend to go even more apest when I pass on the offside at any pace.

Garybee

413 posts

98 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
JustinF said:
Stickyfinger said:
1.5 meters would put me into oncoming traffic.....any cyclist entering that "safe space" should like any car driver, be prosecuted.

(FYI, I am not talking about stationary traffic)
go to a train station, walk between the yellow line and the edge of the platform whilst a train is stationary, that's how dangerous filtering alongside stationary traffic is, now do the same when an express comes thundering through.
That is probably the best analogy that I have ever heard.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

37 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
Garybee said:
That is probably the best analogy that I have ever heard.
Maybe....for passing a stationary car but they can all fk off if I am moving.
I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).

We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".

The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.

dvenman

110 posts

47 months

Saturday 16th September 2017
quotequote all
Wherever cyclists discuss motorists or vice versa, there's a polarisation of views - on both sides.

Cyclists vs cars get better press because they're easier to kill or maim, bluntly, in the same way the unfortunate pedestrian in the recent court case was killed by an errant cyclist. But both drivers and cyclists (and pedestrians) have a role to play in not contributing to the KSI statistics. Cyclists can pass cars at a distance whereby a door opening won't hit them, or by cycling down the nearside at a speed where a carelessly opened door won't stop them so suddenly it's dangerous. Car drivers can anticipate better, and open doors more carefully whether that's looking before opening or reaching a là Dutch. I will finish my mini-rant by saying that there's probably a higher onus on the driver as they're a bigger weapon and need to use it more responsibly.

However, for the majority of road users, thinking like the above is simply too difficult / too much bother that we end up in these repetitive cycles (pardon me, that was inadvertent) of blame and defence.

janesmith1950

Original Poster:

1,871 posts

27 months

Saturday 16th September 2017
quotequote all
More to the point, the thread was started to perhaps get a better understanding from cyclists and advanced drivers. No polarising or tribalism required; we all share the roadspace.

heebeegeetee

26,013 posts

180 months

Saturday 16th September 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
Maybe....for passing a stationary car but they can all fk off if I am moving.
I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).

We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".

The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.
My immediate thought is that driving isn't for you, but I also know that there are millions like you and that's just the way it is.

On my daily commute in and out of Brum, we don't have cyclists to contend with because conditions and standards of driving are so bad.

But that doesn't stop a great many drivers from trying to block a great many of other drivers.

It makes me laugh because we're all going the same way at the same time at much the same speed, but at least half of them attempt to block anyone else from changing lane or making progress or whatever.

It's a mindset that i deplore and will never join.

IroningMan

9,132 posts

178 months

Saturday 16th September 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
Why does it matter who chooses, why does it matter who is overtaking/undertaking who ?....if the space between a moving car and a cyclist is only safe @ 1.5meters then it should be 1.5meters for any reason not just a car overtaking.

I happen to agree that the 1.5meter gap between a car and a cyclist is only just safe @1.5meters, I try to give more when over taking.

What if they hit a drain and fall under my wheels when undertaking closer than 1.5meters ?.....who do you think will get the blame for their death/harm ? ..you can bet a penny & a pound it will be me. As such, I will block them when I am moving as it is not safe as demonstrated by the police image.
There's the rub. You want to stop people getting ahead of you and you've lit upon something that makes you feel you can justify doing so on 'safety' grounds. I don't think you'll get much support for your dogmatic road captaincy on here.

HardtopManual

906 posts

98 months

Saturday 16th September 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
What if they hit a drain and fall under my wheels when undertaking closer than 1.5meters ?.....who do you think will get the blame for their death/harm ?
If you can point to a case where a driver has been prosecuted for this, please do so.

Stickyfinger said:
I will block them when I am moving as it is not safe as demonstrated by the police image.
What does this "blocking" constitute? Given that a bike could probably squeeze through a gap of less than 0.5m if the rider chose to (I wouldn't), you must drive in the gutter.

Stickyfinger said:
We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian
Said pedestrian stepped out in front of the cyclist while looking at her phone. If she had been hit by a car, most would have wondered why she stepped out in front of a car without looking. Said cyclist has an attitude problem and has paid the price for it.

Stickyfinger said:
constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".
Here you reveal the true basis for your comments. You consider people who sometimes ride a bike to be part of some entirely separate species. This is how you rationalise the way you treat them on the roads. In reality, most cyclists also own a car (in fact regular cyclists are more likely to own at least two cars than non-cyclists). As someone who drives, rides and walks regularly, it has become obvious to me that other road users expect a far higher standard of conduct when I am riding a bike than when I am driving or walking. I experience way more verbal abuse and bullying when riding a bike.

nickfrog

8,953 posts

149 months

Thursday 12th October 2017
quotequote all
dvenman said:
Wherever cyclists discuss motorists or vice versa, there's a polarisation of views - on both sides.
True but only (noisy) minorities reside at the poles. This is in fact the same minorities in a car or on a bike who have cohabitation issues on the road.

They're incapable of critical thinking, have blinkered views and obvious bias. There is a member of the anti-cycling polarised minority who is easy to spot in this very thread. Just count the posts.



Solocle

790 posts

16 months

Thursday 12th October 2017
quotequote all
A bit of insight on this from the city of spires. Obviously, traffic here is so bad that in places cycling is fastest from A to B (so like London). I encountered a van driver who was sat in such a way that the cycle lane was semi-occluded. So, I passed on the offside, rather than risk taking out his wing mirror. Of course, the traffic started moving and he got really pissy about it (dangerous overtake obstruction, like car drivers sometimes encounter). At the same time, I see near side overtaking with disdain. So, if I’m in a cycle lane, I will pass on the near side - but, when the traffic starts to move, I complete the ongoing pass and fall in behind the next vehicle. That way, I’m not undertaking a moving vehicle. And of course, I treat large vehicles with respect.

Harji

1,709 posts

93 months

Friday 13th October 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
Maybe....for passing a stationary car but they can all fk off if I am moving.
I do not ever wish a cyclist to harm themselves using my car (as I do not try and harm them).

We have seen recently a cyclist trying to blame a dead pedestrian and constantly hear them issuing blame to truck drivers trying to turn left at junctions even when they ride en-mass into the "danger zone".

The Police tell us 1.5meters for good reasons and this I accept.
You're an idiot and a symptom of why this country is fked on the roads.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

37 months

Friday 13th October 2017
quotequote all
Harji said:
You're an idiot and a symptom of why this country is fked on the roads.
please tell me why.............

heebeegeetee

26,013 posts

180 months

Friday 13th October 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
please tell me why.............
Because you only follow the Myway Code, you make stuff up and you police the roads.

You're one of millions who do likewise, tens of millions possibly, and it's why the roads are fked imo.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

37 months

Friday 13th October 2017
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
Because you only follow the Myway Code, you make stuff up and you police the roads.

You're one of millions who do likewise, tens of millions possibly, and it's why the roads are fked imo.
The Police say 1.5meter is the safe passing distance between a moving car and a bike do they not ?