Roundabout Lane Poll - take 2

[Adamxck]

We should have a Theale driving day; 4 of us in one thread!

[Zetec-S]

LordGrover said:

As a non-local I'd use left.
Locals and/or typical conditions may affect my decision though.

Agreed, I'd naturally be inclined to use the left lane, but if I used it regularly and could see everyone was doing it wrong I'd join them.

Used to have a similar situation on my commute a few years ago, often there would be 'disagreements' between drivers. I've since moved house and jobs, so no need to go anywhere near that area now. I always thought a few quid spent painting proper arrows/road markings on the approach to roundabouts would help clarify the correct lanes and avoid any differences in interpretation.

[james_gt3rs]

Adamxck said:

We should have a Theale driving day; 4 of us in one thread!

There's a good switchback hairpin a few miles after the bridge

[Pica-Pica]

Zetec-S said:

LordGrover said:

As a non-local I'd use left.
Locals and/or typical conditions may affect my decision though.

Agreed, I'd naturally be inclined to use the left lane, but if I used it regularly and could see everyone was doing it wrong I'd join them.

Used to have a similar situation on my commute a few years ago, often there would be 'disagreements' between drivers. I've since moved house and jobs, so no need to go anywhere near that area now. I always thought a few quid spent painting proper arrows/road markings on the approach to roundabouts would help clarify the correct lanes and avoid any differences in interpretation.

The trouble is at very busy times, markings on the road can be obscured by the traffic.

[RobM77]

Pica-Pica said:

Zetec-S said:

LordGrover said:

As a non-local I'd use left.
Locals and/or typical conditions may affect my decision though.

Agreed, I'd naturally be inclined to use the left lane, but if I used it regularly and could see everyone was doing it wrong I'd join them.

Used to have a similar situation on my commute a few years ago, often there would be 'disagreements' between drivers. I've since moved house and jobs, so no need to go anywhere near that area now. I always thought a few quid spent painting proper arrows/road markings on the approach to roundabouts would help clarify the correct lanes and avoid any differences in interpretation.

The trouble is at very busy times, markings on the road can be obscured by the traffic.

That's one of my pet hates - people getting annoyed at me in London for being in the wrong lane, when the only markings are on the road and they're obscured. Either people need to realise that or they need to put the markings on signs! Here though I can confirm there are no markings at all.

[Ardennes92]

I presume the Highway Code changed for some reason as I was instructed that where there are two lanes entering an island, the left lane is for the first exit and the right lane for all others. So I would have been in the right lane until approaching the exit I needed and would indicate left and move towards the exit I needed. Pretty much all islands by me have had the markings removed and it just becomes a free for all with loads of horn and hand gestures, I guess in theory you could have someone in the left lane wanting the third exit and another in the right lane wanting the first. Personally I think it is an accident waiting to happen but as they say the law is an ass

[Pica-Pica]

RobM77 said:

Thanks for your replies. I deliberately kept the original post neutral, but I'll now reveal why this was a mystery to me. Virtually every car I see on this roundabout is going straight on and using the right hand lane to do so. There are rarely queues when I take it, but often one car going straight on. It gives me an awkward conundrum, because obviously if I'm in the left lane (as per the Highway Code), we'll come together on the exit.

I thought the Highway Code was quite clear that from a single carriageway to another single carriageway, the left lane is for all exits up to and including 12 o'clock. Could anyone who vote for the RHL give their reasoning? Something is causing Jo Public to use the right lane exclusively for going straight on and avoid the left hand lane. I can't see any evidence of arrows on the road, and there's no sign giving lanes either.

This may seem like a small point, but I've been taking this roundabout once a week for years now and it always confuses me why other drivers do what they do on it.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 14th September 16:28

Well it appears from your and other's description, that the 3 o clock exit (entering at 6 o clock) is a little used and largely ignored as an exit. So the traffic has effectively two majority routes, left for left and right for straight ahead. Local lore.

[Solocle]

Pica-Pica said:

Well it appears from your and other's description, that the 3 o clock exit (entering at 6 o clock) is a little used and largely ignored as an exit. So the traffic has effectively two majority routes, left for left and right for straight ahead. Local lore.

This'll be the logic. Similar (mini)roundabout story I posted on here on my former commute. From a traffic flow perspective, and hence a regular local manoeuvre, was right lane for right lane of left exit. It did lead to an argument between me and a beemer once... But, as we were already off the roundabout, he had no right to just cut in on anyway.
As for the signage issue, a sign by the side would help a lot! Where HGVs are common, overhead signage avoids most obscuration.

[Zetec-S]

Pica-Pica said:

Zetec-S said:

LordGrover said:

As a non-local I'd use left.
Locals and/or typical conditions may affect my decision though.

Agreed, I'd naturally be inclined to use the left lane, but if I used it regularly and could see everyone was doing it wrong I'd join them.

Used to have a similar situation on my commute a few years ago, often there would be 'disagreements' between drivers. I've since moved house and jobs, so no need to go anywhere near that area now. I always thought a few quid spent painting proper arrows/road markings on the approach to roundabouts would help clarify the correct lanes and avoid any differences in interpretation.

The trouble is at very busy times, markings on the road can be obscured by the traffic.

Yes, but if they were marked then locals would quickly get used to which lane they should be in and it would reduce the number of arguments between drivers.

In my example, pretty much 50% of drivers used one lane and 50% used the other, with both being convinced they were in the correct lane. If there were markings most drivers would adjust their choice accordingly. Yes, there'd be the occasional cock-socket who would still deliberately cut in because they have to get 2 cars ahead, and if someone without local knowledge couldn't see the markings then they might end up in the wrong lane, but in most cases it would help defuse tempers.

[Zetec-S]

Ardennes92 said:

I presume the Highway Code changed for some reason as I was instructed that where there are two lanes entering an island, the left lane is for the first exit and the right lane for all others. So I would have been in the right lane until approaching the exit I needed and would indicate left and move towards the exit I needed. Pretty much all islands by me have had the markings removed and it just becomes a free for all with loads of horn and hand gestures, I guess in theory you could have someone in the left lane wanting the third exit and another in the right lane wanting the first. Personally I think it is an accident waiting to happen but as they say the law is an ass

Adopting that approach I'm guessing you get a lot of horn and hand gestures then?

Personally, I think you've been poorly instructed. The Highway Code hasn't changed, but I admit it is a bit ambiguous. I was taught that on a 'standard' unmarked roundabout anything up to and including 12 o'clock would be left lane, anything after 12 o'clock would be the right lane.

This is the image from the Highway Code, although in the wording it doesn't specify a lane for straight ahead, instead it says to select the appropriate lane.

[RobM77]

Pica-Pica said:

RobM77 said:

Thanks for your replies. I deliberately kept the original post neutral, but I'll now reveal why this was a mystery to me. Virtually every car I see on this roundabout is going straight on and using the right hand lane to do so. There are rarely queues when I take it, but often one car going straight on. It gives me an awkward conundrum, because obviously if I'm in the left lane (as per the Highway Code), we'll come together on the exit.

I thought the Highway Code was quite clear that from a single carriageway to another single carriageway, the left lane is for all exits up to and including 12 o'clock. Could anyone who vote for the RHL give their reasoning? Something is causing Jo Public to use the right lane exclusively for going straight on and avoid the left hand lane. I can't see any evidence of arrows on the road, and there's no sign giving lanes either.

This may seem like a small point, but I've been taking this roundabout once a week for years now and it always confuses me why other drivers do what they do on it.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 14th September 16:28

Well it appears from your and other's description, that the 3 o clock exit (entering at 6 o clock) is a little used and largely ignored as an exit. So the traffic has effectively two majority routes, left for left and right for straight ahead. Local lore.

An extreme example of this is a roundabout a mile or two from where I work. This roundabout is a classic and simple roundabout with four roads, each at 90 degrees. For the majority of traffic coming into it from the west, the first exit is unimportant, because after half a mile it turns into a dead end. This is unapparent when at the roundabout, other than the sign for the road; i.e. there is no funny coloured tarmac, barriers, or anything other than the sign to demonstrate this. Bizarrely, this results in virtually all the traffic indicating left to go straight on! I have even seen police vehicles doing this, most notably a group of police motorcyclists who I assumed were under instruction at the time The problem with this is that lots of pedestrians cross the road on the 'straight ahead' exit, and they think the oncoming cars are turning left.... I've seen so many near misses...

[RobM77]

Zetec-S said:

Ardennes92 said:

I presume the Highway Code changed for some reason as I was instructed that where there are two lanes entering an island, the left lane is for the first exit and the right lane for all others. So I would have been in the right lane until approaching the exit I needed and would indicate left and move towards the exit I needed. Pretty much all islands by me have had the markings removed and it just becomes a free for all with loads of horn and hand gestures, I guess in theory you could have someone in the left lane wanting the third exit and another in the right lane wanting the first. Personally I think it is an accident waiting to happen but as they say the law is an ass

Adopting that approach I'm guessing you get a lot of horn and hand gestures then?

Personally, I think you've been poorly instructed. The Highway Code hasn't changed, but I admit it is a bit ambiguous. I was taught that on a 'standard' unmarked roundabout anything up to and including 12 o'clock would be left lane, anything after 12 o'clock would be the right lane.

This is the image from the Highway Code, although in the wording it doesn't specify a lane for straight ahead, instead it says to select the appropriate lane.

The Highway Code needs to be clearer in this respect (writing clear instructions is part of my job, and the HC is such a poor example that I wouldn't pass it for delivery to a customer!), but no, it's not changed and Ardennes was simply taught wrongly.

[JakeT]

james_gt3rs said:

Adamxck said:

We should have a Theale driving day; 4 of us in one thread!

There's a good switchback hairpin a few miles after the bridge

I love the following one, unless that's the one you're talking about...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4217339,-1.06271...

Moreso because it's traffic light controlled! Feels like a hillclimb!

[RobM77]

JakeT said:

james_gt3rs said:

Adamxck said:

We should have a Theale driving day; 4 of us in one thread!

There's a good switchback hairpin a few miles after the bridge

I love the following one, unless that's the one you're talking about...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4217339,-1.06271...

Moreso because it's traffic light controlled! Feels like a hillclimb!

[watchnut]

You could always contact the highways dept for your council or "road safety team" and ask them to meet you there, and show them the "issue" you have with the signage (none)....what you think is a suitable way of making it safer (maybe lane 1 (left) to go left only, and lane 2 (right) to go straight on and right

I have twice contacted highways depts for two separate reasons, one was for the amount of time the traffic lights were allowing for pedestrians to cross a road to the middle, then press button again to cross to other side, and another for a missing "give way" sign

On the pedestrian crossing we fell out as they claimed it was "fine" but on the giveway sign they replaced it, and put a light over it so as to be visible during darker periods....

On your roundabout, if using lane 1 as I crossed it I would be giving a "lifesaver check" / mirrors on offside to make sure no one trying to over take

If using the lane 2 option i would make sure I was not cutting up some one on near side as I merged onto exit of roundabout

I would use both, as I usually take the shortest queue to junctions if i know that I could use both lanes, so as to make progress using all available road space, mindful of not upsetting folk!

[jimmy the hat]

No offence but is this one of those trying to rigidly apply 'what the HC says' to a roundabout that the HC is demonstrably not referring to?

First caveat is that it would very much depend on how much traffic takes each exit, then there's local convention.

Those aside, if I knew that basically nobody took the 'right' turn nor went right round and back the way they came I'd be inclined to treat it as one lane for each exit: Left for Brunel Rd and Right for Station Rd.

But, having said that I'm apparently one of very few people who apply that to this roundabout, probably because HC.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6880151,0.465029...

There's another roundabout I know of, with two lanes entering and it's perfectly acceptable to use the left hand lane to take the fourth of four exits. Well, to everyone who knows that that's what happens, it is. You do get the occasional 'but I was always taught' taking exception.

Cheers, Jim

[RobM77]

jimmy the hat said:

No offence but is this one of those trying to rigidly apply 'what the HC says' to a roundabout that the HC is demonstrably not referring to?

Nope, it's as simple a roundabout as you'll get - four roads at 90 degrees to each other, all single track, well sighted, all the same speed limits and no time or vehicle restrictions on any of them.

[RobM77]

watchnut said:

You could always contact the highways dept for your council or "road safety team" and ask them to meet you there, and show them the "issue" you have with the signage (none)....what you think is a suitable way of making it safer (maybe lane 1 (left) to go left only, and lane 2 (right) to go straight on and right

I have twice contacted highways depts for two separate reasons, one was for the amount of time the traffic lights were allowing for pedestrians to cross a road to the middle, then press button again to cross to other side, and another for a missing "give way" sign

On the pedestrian crossing we fell out as they claimed it was "fine" but on the giveway sign they replaced it, and put a light over it so as to be visible during darker periods....

On your roundabout, if using lane 1 as I crossed it I would be giving a "lifesaver check" / mirrors on offside to make sure no one trying to over take

If using the lane 2 option i would make sure I was not cutting up some one on near side as I merged onto exit of roundabout

I would use both, as I usually take the shortest queue to junctions if i know that I could use both lanes, so as to make progress using all available road space, mindful of not upsetting folk!

As sad as it may seem to resort to this, it could be a solution. I go through one roundabout and two t-junctions each day which form queues purely because people don't know their Highway Code. I know they should just read the HC, but if we had signs pointing out the HC rules at these junctions it would shave several minutes off my commuting time. I've often daydreamed about making my own whilst I'm sat there waiting!

[jimmy the hat]

RobM77 said:

jimmy the hat said:

No offence but is this one of those trying to rigidly apply 'what the HC says' to a roundabout that the HC is demonstrably not referring to?

Nope, it's as simple a roundabout as you'll get - four roads at 90 degrees to each other, all single track, well sighted, all the same speed limits and no time or vehicle restrictions on any of them.

Apologies. Google maps shows your third exit as an entry only and comment on this thread suggests that not many people take it. On closer inspection, the comment seems to be based on inference from google maps and there's an awful lot of cars in those car parks for an exit that not many people take.

So, again, it would be down to traffic flow (which may well be dependant on time of day) and local convention. You've said that virtually every car you see is going straight on from the R/H lane and no queues so you're free to do what you think is right but obviously either in front of or behind them so as not to come into conflict or just join in. With the latter, at least you won't have anybody coming out of Brunel Rd pulling out in front of you because they think your position in the L/H lane means you're going left, because HC.

Obviously, if there were huge queues of people in the R/H lane going straight on it might become a bit more tempting to rigidly apply 'what the HC says'.

Cheers, Jim

[MrBarry123]

I use this roundabout ever so often and I think I use the R/H lane to continue straight across.

Maybe it's just me but the angle of the L/H lane as it meets the roundabout makes it seem as though it's feeding into the first exit, with the R/H lane feeding onto the roundabout.

Edited by MrBarry123 on Thursday 12th October 10:59