Police Response Driving - My experience
Discussion
Bigends said:
Whats the difference between the two?
They are the same thing. Name seems to change though, they are the local officers who deal with the community things. R7 said:
How similar to the IAM stuff is the driver training you are going through? Would you suggest that the IAM course is worth doing before the Response course, or do you run the risk of getting into habits that are not primarily taught/applicable to Response driving?
I'll always recommend advanced driving as it benefits everyone. My instructor said its basically the same but without the response side of things and within the speed limits. I can join IAM though without doing their course so would think it's very similar.LosingGrip said:
I'll always recommend advanced driving as it benefits everyone. My instructor said its basically the same but without the response side of things and within the speed limits. I can join IAM though without doing their course so would think it's very similar.
Yeah, they're the same pretty much in that it's same Roadcraft / 'system of car control' principals used by both; so they're both singing from the same hymn sheet except for the exemptions for police. Obviously the police course is more 'professional' in that instructors are qualified instructors as well as qualified drivers, they have the luxury of time, structure & resources, but principals are the same.For anyone interested you can get a lot of insight into what's involved by buying the book (I think Reg Local here has a few books out as well), but the 'bible' is https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadcraft-Police-Drivers-...
The standard of a driver who has had three weeks of professional instruction is bound to be far far higher than that of a driver who has qualified through the IAM system.
If a police driver uses his exemption to join the IAM and does not get involved he may possibly get benefit from the IAM insurance scheme. If he/she wants to get involved their local group is likely to want them to become an Observer, and for that it would be necessary to go through a simple training and qualification process.
If a police driver uses his exemption to join the IAM and does not get involved he may possibly get benefit from the IAM insurance scheme. If he/she wants to get involved their local group is likely to want them to become an Observer, and for that it would be necessary to go through a simple training and qualification process.
Great write up. How do they cover you for vehicles failing to stop - what training have they given you in terms of an initial phase pursuit?
Interesting that you will be one of a very small group of police drivers who actually care about their driving, and as such should hopefully improve over time. Most police drivers don't have the interest in driving that you have shown, and as a result, standards drop off very quickly. Hopefully by the time your 5 year refresher is due you will be more experienced and with the interest you have in the subject more competent.
Interesting that you will be one of a very small group of police drivers who actually care about their driving, and as such should hopefully improve over time. Most police drivers don't have the interest in driving that you have shown, and as a result, standards drop off very quickly. Hopefully by the time your 5 year refresher is due you will be more experienced and with the interest you have in the subject more competent.
Dizeee said:
Great write up. How do they cover you for vehicles failing to stop - what training have they given you in terms of an initial phase pursuit?
Interesting that you will be one of a very small group of police drivers who actually care about their driving, and as such should hopefully improve over time. Most police drivers don't have the interest in driving that you have shown, and as a result, standards drop off very quickly. Hopefully by the time your 5 year refresher is due you will be more experienced and with the interest you have in the subject more competent.
That is normally week four. We only did the first three weeks. I've got two of the next five next month which covers stinger and fast roads (rolling road blocks etc). If someone fails to stop I have to stop. I've only had it happen once in eight years though so doesn't happen often. Interesting that you will be one of a very small group of police drivers who actually care about their driving, and as such should hopefully improve over time. Most police drivers don't have the interest in driving that you have shown, and as a result, standards drop off very quickly. Hopefully by the time your 5 year refresher is due you will be more experienced and with the interest you have in the subject more competent.
It is possible to get pursuit but it's a case of when they have room for us.
I hope so with the last part. I really enjoyed the course and I hope it's the start of things.
Dizeee said:
Great write up. How do they cover you for vehicles failing to stop - what training have they given you in terms of an initial phase pursuit?
Interesting that you will be one of a very small group of police drivers who actually care about their driving, and as such should hopefully improve over time. Most police drivers don't have the interest in driving that you have shown, and as a result, standards drop off very quickly. Hopefully by the time your 5 year refresher is due you will be more experienced and with the interest you have in the subject more competent.
Ahem! Ive driven to the system since my Cadet course in the early 70's at 18 and then through subsequent courses including my advanced in the early 80's. I still drive to the system and am accident free since 1973. Ive never had an obsessive interest in driving but have stuck with what I was taught. Remember - training is only a means to an end - of getting you from a to b quickly and safely - what counts in Police work is what you do when you arrive, and knowing what to do on arrival - not any fancy techniques you employ getting there.Interesting that you will be one of a very small group of police drivers who actually care about their driving, and as such should hopefully improve over time. Most police drivers don't have the interest in driving that you have shown, and as a result, standards drop off very quickly. Hopefully by the time your 5 year refresher is due you will be more experienced and with the interest you have in the subject more competent.
waremark said:
The standard of a driver who has had three weeks of professional instruction is bound to be far far higher than that of a driver who has qualified through the IAM system.
If a police driver uses his exemption to join the IAM and does not get involved he may possibly get benefit from the IAM insurance scheme. If he/she wants to get involved their local group is likely to want them to become an Observer, and for that it would be necessary to go through a simple training and qualification process.
The minimum standard for passing 3 weeks emergency service training is certainly far far higher than IAM. But there are drivers who have gone through the IAM/ROSPA route and had coaching with people like Reg Local who are comparable with standard trained police drivers and in some cases the same ballpark as advanced trained drivers, apart from the blue light specific aspects of course.If a police driver uses his exemption to join the IAM and does not get involved he may possibly get benefit from the IAM insurance scheme. If he/she wants to get involved their local group is likely to want them to become an Observer, and for that it would be necessary to go through a simple training and qualification process.
This may be interesting to those reading this thread:
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/road...
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/road...
Dr Jekyll said:
The minimum standard for passing 3 weeks emergency service training is certainly far far higher than IAM. But there are drivers who have gone through the IAM/ROSPA route and had coaching with people like Reg Local who are comparable with standard trained police drivers and in some cases the same ballpark as advanced trained drivers, apart from the blue light specific aspects of course.
That really is a nonsensical statement and it reminds me of the sort of thing I would have posted on ADUK around 10 years agoYou can't campare the two as the driving experience between then varies so vastly - one of them is permanantly harnessed by the restrictions of the road traffic act and the other has exemptions. Over a period of time, the difference in application of technique and consequent experience gained seperates them hugely. Blue lights afford you no exemptions, just a means to assist progress through traffic. Do you really think you would see the same abilty from a well rounded IAM/ROSPA driver and compared to a well rounded police driver on the same drive?
Dizeee said:
That really is a nonsensical statement and it reminds me of the sort of thing I would have posted on ADUK around 10 years ago
You can't campare the two as the driving experience between then varies so vastly - one of them is permanantly harnessed by the restrictions of the road traffic act and the other has exemptions. Over a period of time, the difference in application of technique and consequent experience gained seperates them hugely. Blue lights afford you no exemptions, just a means to assist progress through traffic. Do you really think you would see the same abilty from a well rounded IAM/ROSPA driver and compared to a well rounded police driver on the same drive?
I don't know what 'well rounded' means in this context. But according to emergency trained drivers and instructors I've spoken to, there are a few IAM/ROSPA drivers who are way above the minimum standard for passing the respective tests and comparable with those who have done the police standard course. You can't campare the two as the driving experience between then varies so vastly - one of them is permanantly harnessed by the restrictions of the road traffic act and the other has exemptions. Over a period of time, the difference in application of technique and consequent experience gained seperates them hugely. Blue lights afford you no exemptions, just a means to assist progress through traffic. Do you really think you would see the same abilty from a well rounded IAM/ROSPA driver and compared to a well rounded police driver on the same drive?
Edited by Dr Jekyll on Wednesday 15th November 12:52
The police do not recruit the likely best possible drivers. They have to make the best drivers they can from the people they recruit to be police officers. That means it is entirely possible that potentially better drivers exist among the rest of us simply because they have no desire to be police officers.
Amazing to see just how different forces are. Hampshire have only just allowed specials to be response trained. There are about 1 or 2 and they have jumped on to a last min course the morning it starts.
No specials can even drive let alone respond on traffic in Hants. It's very backwards. We have a good few specials on our team that would be a good asset if they weren't babysat and have their hands tied by management.
No specials can even drive let alone respond on traffic in Hants. It's very backwards. We have a good few specials on our team that would be a good asset if they weren't babysat and have their hands tied by management.
Edited by HantsRat on Wednesday 15th November 14:08
Dizeee said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The minimum standard for passing 3 weeks emergency service training is certainly far far higher than IAM. But there are drivers who have gone through the IAM/ROSPA route and had coaching with people like Reg Local who are comparable with standard trained police drivers and in some cases the same ballpark as advanced trained drivers, apart from the blue light specific aspects of course.
That really is a nonsensical statement and it reminds me of the sort of thing I would have posted on ADUK around 10 years agoYou can't campare the two as the driving experience between then varies so vastly - one of them is permanantly harnessed by the restrictions of the road traffic act and the other has exemptions. Over a period of time, the difference in application of technique and consequent experience gained seperates them hugely. Blue lights afford you no exemptions, just a means to assist progress through traffic. Do you really think you would see the same abilty from a well rounded IAM/ROSPA driver and compared to a well rounded police driver on the same drive?
waremark said:
Dizeee said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The minimum standard for passing 3 weeks emergency service training is certainly far far higher than IAM. But there are drivers who have gone through the IAM/ROSPA route and had coaching with people like Reg Local who are comparable with standard trained police drivers and in some cases the same ballpark as advanced trained drivers, apart from the blue light specific aspects of course.
That really is a nonsensical statement and it reminds me of the sort of thing I would have posted on ADUK around 10 years agoYou can't campare the two as the driving experience between then varies so vastly - one of them is permanantly harnessed by the restrictions of the road traffic act and the other has exemptions. Over a period of time, the difference in application of technique and consequent experience gained seperates them hugely. Blue lights afford you no exemptions, just a means to assist progress through traffic. Do you really think you would see the same abilty from a well rounded IAM/ROSPA driver and compared to a well rounded police driver on the same drive?
I've known people who excel whatever driving discipline they move to from the last.
I've known people bomb whatever driving discipline they move to from the last.
I've known people be mediocre whatever driving discipline they move to from the last.
I've known people who excel in one discipline completely bomb or perform with mediocrity when they move onto another.
I've known others who perform with mediocrity (at what might be considered a lower discipline) find themselves & excel at the next level discipline.
In short prior performance in one discipline is not a good indicator of future performance in a different discipline.
Why do people even pose the pie in the sky question about how they might do on a response/pursuit course when they've no interest in being a Police officer & will never do a course?
We have the potential to do well & we all have the potential to bomb.
Whether people succeed or fail is down to the individual & the task on a case by case basis. The proof in effect is in the pudding.
That in no way infers that the Police driver is considered a better driver than somebody who has never done response/pursuit training, it just means that they have demonstrated they can perform those disciplines to a satisfactory standard whilst another has no chance to display whether they can or not. The measure of how good they are as a Police driver is how well they perform in those disciplines, so you can't say how good another is in those disciplines without training/testing them at it. Their experience in other driving disciplines isn't a very good indicator of how well they will do in those disciplines.
If you work hard at a discipline & have been been found to excel when tested against a defined standard at it, then great.
But that's what it is, that discipline & take it as that. If you go on and do another discipline & excel at that as well, then great, but again that's what it is.
Giving any thought about how well you think you'd do at something you are never likely to do is a waste of time & is pure conjecture.
How good you are at a discipline can only be determined by observing you performing that discipline measured against the objectives/criteria of that discipline.
People would be better served concentrating on doing well & improving at the disciplines they actually do, rather than a pointless discussion about disciplines they are never actually going to do. They aren't lesser drivers in any way because they don't do them, they are just different drivers. And we are all individuals as drivers anyway.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 15th November 23:24
vonhosen said:
waremark said:
Dizeee said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The minimum standard for passing 3 weeks emergency service training is certainly far far higher than IAM. But there are drivers who have gone through the IAM/ROSPA route and had coaching with people like Reg Local who are comparable with standard trained police drivers and in some cases the same ballpark as advanced trained drivers, apart from the blue light specific aspects of course.
That really is a nonsensical statement and it reminds me of the sort of thing I would have posted on ADUK around 10 years agoYou can't campare the two as the driving experience between then varies so vastly - one of them is permanantly harnessed by the restrictions of the road traffic act and the other has exemptions. Over a period of time, the difference in application of technique and consequent experience gained seperates them hugely. Blue lights afford you no exemptions, just a means to assist progress through traffic. Do you really think you would see the same abilty from a well rounded IAM/ROSPA driver and compared to a well rounded police driver on the same drive?
I've known people who excel whatever driving discipline they move to from the last.
I've known people bomb whatever driving discipline they move to from the last.
I've known people be mediocre whatever driving discipline they move to from the last.
I've known people who excel in one discipline completely bomb or perform with mediocrity when they move onto another.
I've known others who perform with mediocrity (at what might be considered a lower discipline) find themselves & excel at the next level discipline.
In short prior performance in one discipline is not a good indicator of future performance in a different discipline.
Why do people even pose the pie in the sky question about how they might do on a response/pursuit course when they've no interest in being a Police officer & will never do a course?
We have the potential to do well & we all have the potential to bomb.
Whether people succeed or fail is down to the individual & the task on a case by case basis. The proof in effect is in the pudding.
That in no way infers that the Police driver is considered a better driver than somebody who has never done response/pursuit training, it just means that they have demonstrated they can perform those disciplines to a satisfactory standard whilst another has no chance to display whether they can or not. The measure of how good they are as a Police driver is how well they perform in those disciplines, so you can't say how good another is in those disciplines without training/testing them at it. Their experience in other driving disciplines isn't a very good indicator of how well they will do in those disciplines.
If you work hard at a discipline & have been been found to excel when tested against a defined standard at it, then great.
But that's what it is, that discipline & take it as that. If you go on and do another discipline & excel at that as well, then great, but again that's what it is.
Giving any thought about how well you think you'd do at something you are never likely to do is a waste of time & is pure conjecture.
How good you are at a discipline can only be determined by observing you performing that discipline measured against the objectives/criteria of that discipline.
People would be better served concentrating on doing well & improving at the disciplines they actually do, rather than a pointless discussion about disciplines they are never actually going to do. They aren't lesser drivers in any way because they don't do them, they are just different drivers. And we are all individuals as drivers anyway.
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 15th November 23:24
Pursuit training is clearly not something that a highly trained civilian should have any experience in but as I mentioned above, the use of speed without regard to the posted limit is something that civilian "advanced drivers" may have considerable training and experience in despite not being entitled to any exemption.
I'm not making any judgement as to whether that is right or wrong, just the reality of the situation which comes back to your last point about the disciplines that the driver will actually do.
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