Yellow Box of Peril

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Discussion

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
Picked the car up from Service. Driving back I ended up caught in a Yellow Box. Furthermore due to thinking about my mistake I was close to stopping on a crossing which I thought I missed the light for. Thinking about it the lights were controlled by the main junction. Still not good to get caught out.

Quite embarrassing as I consider myself a competent driver.
I am familiar with the Junction but I rarely drive it. I wasn't concentrating as I should have been. Watching back the footage I'm wondering what I could have done better?

Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/nzllShQJvvM

Edited by Rick101 on Thursday 16th November 12:14

768

3,421 posts

31 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
"This video has been removed by the user."

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
Bah, no better with tech! Try again, new link

768

3,421 posts

31 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
I guess the easy-to-say trick is not to enter the box until it's clear to exit. Doesn't look like it was a disaster though.

Mess of a junction.

AllyBassman

411 posts

47 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
agree,

mess of a junction coupled with the usual heavier than designed for traffic. You didn't really do anything wrong, sometimes in these situations a little common sense needs to be applied. Otherwise none of the traffic will move!


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Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
It is one of the worst roads. Busy tourist area, next to university, a student walking route. Near to hospital so ambulances are regular. Lots of small independent shops with vans half parked on the pavement making deliveries.

Good to know others thought there are mitigating reasons.

waremark

2,454 posts

148 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
I don't see how you could have done any better however much you were concentrating - from where you enter the yellow box you cannot yet see whether the exit is clear. I cannot remember seeing a box junction used like that.

However, on this occasion I don't think you were on the wrong side of the law - you didn't stop moving, and as I understand it an offence is only committed if you come to a complete stop on the yellow box. If I am wrong no-one someone with more certain knowledge will correct me.

Solocle

866 posts

19 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
quotequote all
waremark said:
I don't see how you could have done any better however much you were concentrating - from where you enter the yellow box you cannot yet see whether the exit is clear. I cannot remember seeing a box junction used like that.

However, on this occasion I don't think you were on the wrong side of the law - you didn't stop moving, and as I understand it an offence is only committed if you come to a complete stop on the yellow box. If I am wrong no-one someone with more certain knowledge will correct me.
I'm pretty sure there must be some threshold. "I was moving a few nanometers per second, honest guv" hehe
On a more serious note, mess of a junction, and it was impossible to see that it was clear. It might be the case that the box is there to stop people stopping on the junction trying to go straight across, hence I don't think the OP's actions were in contradiction of the concept.

supersport

2,782 posts

162 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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It's not the only one like it in town, there is another that goes round a roundabout. They don't seem to put them where actually needed.

Terminator X

6,898 posts

139 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Bad junction although you didn't seem to stop so no offence?

TX.

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
Regards stopping, I thought you were permitted to stop as long as the exit is clear.

Eg waiting for a gap in incoming traffic to turn right

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
I'll be over the same junction today. I'll try and get some stills of the view as you approach the yellow box.

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
Dashcam Warrior app won''t upload to Youtube today for some reason.

You''ll have to made do with a few phone screenshots.

This is the vehicle stop line. This is where I would be really making my decision to go or not. There is a risk that you move forwards, don't enter the box due to a risk of fine but end up stopped over the pedestrian crossing when they get a green man. (Not sure if Puffin crossings will give 'walk' if vehicles are stopped??)





This is forward of the vehicle stop line but behind the cycle stop line. A fractionally better view, not clear if the exit is blocked.





This is the first instant I get a view of a clear exit. I am right over the pedestrian crossing. It's is not clear how much room the van has in front of him. No brake lights coming on, but in all honestly you don't have time to sit and gauge his deceleration rate.





On reflection, and a 2nd attempt, yes, it's a crap junction and you will probably end up in the yellow box.

With regard to the question of stopping. The example I gave earlier was correct, what I hadn't realised was that, that was the only situation it applied to.

Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.



Two things to note from the DVLA image. The blue Focus in the wait position, is waiting behind the stop line and has not moved up to the yellow box.
Secondly it shows a tipper wagon stopped over a crossing with nowhere to go. Not sure that's encouraged. One to check.


Here endeth the lesson smile





Edited by Rick101 on Friday 17th November 10:57

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
Rule 192
In queuing traffic, you should keep the crossing clear.laugh

waremark

2,454 posts

148 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
Rick101 said:
Rule 192
In queuing traffic, you should keep the crossing clear.laugh
Did you watch the video? Since the box went round the corner you couldn't see whether it was clear at the time you had to decide whether to enter it. More or less.

PS Sorry, I now realise who posted this.

Edited by waremark on Friday 17th November 16:49

herewego

8,668 posts

148 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
You didn't have any reason to stop at the crossing as far as I can see and by stopping there you trap whoever is following you.
As far as I recall the LA is only allowed to paint box junctions in a rectangular shape although it may be possible to get special permission in some circumstances so I'm going to guess this one is not enforceable.

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
Quite possibly. I am not of aware of any in York that have camera controlled enforcement.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

61 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
waremark said:
I don't see how you could have done any better however much you were concentrating - from where you enter the yellow box you cannot yet see whether the exit is clear.
Yes, you can. Watch the video from 0:09 onwards - the Mokka's brake lights come on before the Aygo even enters the box.
When the Aygo's just about fully in the box, and the camera car still hasn't even crossed the line, the Mokka's already slowing right down.
By the time the camera car enters the box, the Mokka's just about stationary right on the box exit, and the Aygo's damn near stopped.

The driver of the camera car is clearly just watching the back of the car in front, no further than that. All the clues are there.

Rick101

Original Poster:

5,622 posts

85 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
All comments welcome.

I am the first to look inward when something has gone wrong and freely admit a lack of concentration on the first attempt.

I made a point of doing it again today to see if it could be done better and whilst you are able to sit and watch the footage to fractions of a second, there are lots of other things to account for in real driving.

It is right on the 9 sec I have it paused, I am at the stop line (at speed) and I do concur the brake lights come on in that 9 sec window.

Consider though I'm in a large and heavy old Volvo with a slushbox. My camera does not record speed but I have certainly got the vehicle moving and would be unlikley to come to a nice smooth controlled stop as you are supposed to do in AD. I could of course have slammed on at the stop line but I would probably end up the recipient of a rear shunt.
I am of course also checking for pedestrians, cycles on both side and other traffic at the same time.

Whilst I appreciate the view and comments, I don't think stopping is workable.


Vaux

1,540 posts

151 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
Rick101 said:
All comments welcome.

I am the first to look inward when something has gone wrong and freely admit a lack of concentration on the first attempt.

I made a point of doing it again today to see if it could be done better and whilst you are able to sit and watch the footage to fractions of a second, there are lots of other things to account for in real driving.

It is right on the 9 sec I have it paused, I am at the stop line (at speed) and I do concur the brake lights come on in that 9 sec window.

Consider though I'm in a large and heavy old Volvo with a slushbox. My camera does not record speed but I have certainly got the vehicle moving and would be unlikley to come to a nice smooth controlled stop as you are supposed to do in AD. I could of course have slammed on at the stop line but I would probably end up the recipient of a rear shunt.
I am of course also checking for pedestrians, cycles on both side and other traffic at the same time.

Whilst I appreciate the view and comments, I don't think stopping is workable.
You seem to think you have to be able to stop before the first stop line?