Rev Matching & the mistakes made
Discussion
Adamxck said:
akirk said:
practise on a straight where you can go e.g. 5-4-5-4-5-4-5-4 - you should be able to do it eventually with no noticeable difference
I like this suggestion, though I'd add 3rd too. so 5-4-3-4-5-4-3 etc. Start with one gear at a time; you can block shift once you've nailed a single gear. Choose a speed where 3rd gear is 4-4.5k rpm so you will have to confidently raise the revs. Being timid with the throttle will only result in a lumpy change. Just build your confidence slowly.
The key for me was to practice somewhere that you dont need to do it, like a long straight with nobody behind. The pressure to get it done before the corner comes off and your only goal is to rev match, so isolates the skill. Then start picking points where you want it done by, like a lampost or hedge. Then once you can time that right, make that point a corner and you'll be golden.
my original suggestion carried the line a couple above suggesting start with 5-4 and then move on to 4-3 then 3-2 etc. - one step at a time... eventually you can then do as you suggest, but better to start simple! Your idea of picking points is a very good concept as it helps structure the road...Dr Jekyll said:
Try briefly pausing in neutral during the downchange. This gives a good opportunity for a throttle blip, if you overdo it just wait a bit longer for the revs to drop. Too little blip is a problem, too much can be sorted out with timing.
It's also a good half way to DDC. Once you get used to pausing, declutching and reclutching during the pause is straightforward.
I blip because that's how I was taught, but I've been told since that sustained throttle is preferable because once you get the hang of it little modification is required for different cars.
When I was looking at this with the coach a couple of weeks ago - he was suggesting both - sustained being the smoother, but needing a little bit more time is ideal for planned changes - e.g. coming from NSL into a village - however blipping is faster, so also a useful skill - he was suggesting a double blip, and that does seem to work better...It's also a good half way to DDC. Once you get used to pausing, declutching and reclutching during the pause is straightforward.
I blip because that's how I was taught, but I've been told since that sustained throttle is preferable because once you get the hang of it little modification is required for different cars.
I always DDC just to irritate Earl Thompson, with his oh-so-clever answer...*
DDC may also help as the the OP as the speed phase (as mentioned) seems to be the problem. An unfamiliar technique would require the OP to give himself more time and perhaps(?) take away the tendency to maintain pace into the corner.
Alternatively, change gear for a (short) while without using the clutch as a silky change takes time and skill. Warning: this can be detrimental to the gearbox if not done without a serious nod to mechanical sympathy.
Speed first though.
(*dont go looking for his posts, he was the General Motors engineer of synchromesh fame)
DDC may also help as the the OP as the speed phase (as mentioned) seems to be the problem. An unfamiliar technique would require the OP to give himself more time and perhaps(?) take away the tendency to maintain pace into the corner.
Alternatively, change gear for a (short) while without using the clutch as a silky change takes time and skill. Warning: this can be detrimental to the gearbox if not done without a serious nod to mechanical sympathy.
Speed first though.
(*dont go looking for his posts, he was the General Motors engineer of synchromesh fame)
akirk said:
When I was looking at this with the coach a couple of weeks ago - he was suggesting both - sustained being the smoother, but needing a little bit more time is ideal for planned changes - e.g. coming from NSL into a village - however blipping is faster, so also a useful skill - he was suggesting a double blip, and that does seem to work better...
Explain the double blip system. Initial reaction is that the first blip was too early, or releasing the clutch after the blip too slow.waremark said:
akirk said:
When I was looking at this with the coach a couple of weeks ago - he was suggesting both - sustained being the smoother, but needing a little bit more time is ideal for planned changes - e.g. coming from NSL into a village - however blipping is faster, so also a useful skill - he was suggesting a double blip, and that does seem to work better...
Explain the double blip system. Initial reaction is that the first blip was too early, or releasing the clutch after the blip too slow.you might have to ask AM! Or if you see DV, ask him as we have just spent today in the z3 and then M5, he might be able to explain it better than I can!
akirk said:
you might have to ask AM! Or if you see DV, ask him as we have just spent today in the z3 and then M5, he might be able to explain it better than I can!
Think I am expecting to see DV tomorrow, will do. I think Andy was just enjoying the sound of an extra blip in the M5!We risk getting a bit beyond what is suitable in the thread here. But I tend to blip and try to catch the revs as they fall if changing down at higher revs and/or while I am still braking using H & T. On the other hand if I am driving the Roadcraft way and not changing down until I am at the speed for the hazard and am ready to pick up the drive again, I use a more sustained approach rather than a blip because that seems to go better with picking up the drive in the lower gear. Whether or not I DDC does not make any difference to this - or to the smoothness.
waremark said:
Think I am expecting to see DV tomorrow, will do. I think Andy was just enjoying the sound of an extra blip in the M5!
We risk getting a bit beyond what is suitable in the thread here. But I tend to blip and try to catch the revs as they fall if changing down at higher revs and/or while I am still braking using H & T. On the other hand if I am driving the Roadcraft way and not changing down until I am at the speed for the hazard and am ready to pick up the drive again, I use a more sustained approach rather than a blip because that seems to go better with picking up the drive in the lower gear. Whether or not I DDC does not make any difference to this - or to the smoothness.
You are probably right, it does sound good!We risk getting a bit beyond what is suitable in the thread here. But I tend to blip and try to catch the revs as they fall if changing down at higher revs and/or while I am still braking using H & T. On the other hand if I am driving the Roadcraft way and not changing down until I am at the speed for the hazard and am ready to pick up the drive again, I use a more sustained approach rather than a blip because that seems to go better with picking up the drive in the lower gear. Whether or not I DDC does not make any difference to this - or to the smoothness.
I would agree, if under braking I would H&T instead - which is one blip
if a more measured separation (as per IPSGA) then I would go for the sustained approach, but otherwise, this main, and subsidiary blip seems to work - could be a solution to my driving ability and the very light flywheel, but will practise it and see what happens!
BertBert said:
I'm amazed at all this DDC nonsense.
Yes of course it has its place in driving specific vehicles but in modern cars and especially for the OP who is learning rev matching it has no benefit at all.
And can anyone make sense of how DDC saves the clutch over and above rev matching?
Bert
+1. Waste of time in a modern car.Yes of course it has its place in driving specific vehicles but in modern cars and especially for the OP who is learning rev matching it has no benefit at all.
And can anyone make sense of how DDC saves the clutch over and above rev matching?
Bert
Young1 said:
Hi all,
I've decided to go for ROSPA for learning advanced driving, in the meantime I've decided to try and learn rev matching.
What method should I use for the raising of revs? Blip or sustained throttle? I tried it a new way on my last drive a few minutes ago where I change down from 5th to 3rd at 30mph, engage the third gear, then put a little bit of gas as I lift the clutch slowly, minimising my potential for mistake, it works well.
Basically OP had solved his own problem before starting the thread. This is a good solution which will go down well with Rospa. DDC would be a completely unnecessary distraction. I've decided to go for ROSPA for learning advanced driving, in the meantime I've decided to try and learn rev matching.
What method should I use for the raising of revs? Blip or sustained throttle? I tried it a new way on my last drive a few minutes ago where I change down from 5th to 3rd at 30mph, engage the third gear, then put a little bit of gas as I lift the clutch slowly, minimising my potential for mistake, it works well.
No it wouldn't. If the OP is struggling with a simple blip, then trying to DDC first is a daft idea.
Why do you think otherwise?
Bert
PS OP, sorry for the demeaning comment, am being flippant for the sake of the debate around DDC!
Why do you think otherwise?
Bert
PS OP, sorry for the demeaning comment, am being flippant for the sake of the debate around DDC!
Bigends said:
Agreed but it would save the problems the OP's having
Here is an article I wrote some time ago for a car club I was in, specially to help the US members with manual gearboxes.
Ultimately, rev matching depends on the car (one will behave differently from the other) if for example the revs drop quicker. It's a combination of muscle memory and timing. For example, if changing from 2nd to 5th the revs have some way to fall, so simply timing it right, the clutch will be coming up when the revs are in the right place. Changing from say 4th to 5th, you may need to maintain some gas, to stop the revs dropping to far.
The 'keep you foot still on the accelerator' method only works in certain conditions - for example, going from 4th to 3rd on a level road. Trying that going up a hill (you need more accelerator) and the revs will bounce off the limitor as the clutch dis-engauges.
Here is the article, hope it is useful ...
Position of hand on gear lever:
I was taught and prefer ‘thumb up, or thumb down’ (which way depends on which gear I’m selecting)– meaning the palm of my hand is against the side of the gear knob – why, it’s actually easier to select gears this way, looks and feels a little more refined, and eliminates the possibility of your hand slipping off the gearleaver. My personal view, is that it shows a little pride in what you are doing ….
Don’t ride the clutch, ever, this includes holding the car on a hill using the clutch, or creeping slowly forwards at lights while waiting for them to change - it kills clutches quickly ...
When stationary, put the car in neutral and bring you foot off the clutch completely. Why, the release bearing is only under load with the clutch depressed (and thus wears) – a part that costs what, £30 could mean a £1000+ bill to get it changed.
Hard / fast gear changes are bad for your gearbox, take things at a nice slow relaxed speed 1 to 2 seconds when changing gear, your car will thank you for it. Sure, sometimes we are going out for a bit of a blast, a sporty drive, so gear changes may speed up a bit – but for day-to-day, show some mechanical sympathy to your car, the ‘relaxed method’ is at least worth considering. If you employee the ‘double-de-clutch’ method of gear changing, then at least for down changes, the speed of the gear change is less relevant, as this method of gearchanging pretty much removes all ‘mechanical wear’ from the process.
I’ll now try and explain the more technical ways to change gear, leading to greater passenger comfort, and decreased mechanical wear. Quite simply, a gear change from any gear to any gear should not be felt, at all – this is how you do it ….
Let’s consider changing gear, between 3rd and 4th gear at 30 mph at a constant speed.
For simplicity I’ve made the following numbers up, just to keep things simple.
30mph in third gear = 2300 rpm
30 mph in forth gear = 2000 rpm
Changing down – 4th to 3rd
In 4th gear the both ‘sides’ of the clutch (engine side and gear box side) are rotating at 2000 rpm. The basic method of changing gear would be to depress the clutch, release the accelerator, select 3rd gear and then reengage the clutch and depress the accelerator.
The problem with this, is that as the clutch is depressed, the gearbox side continues to rotate at about 2000 rpm, simply because it’s connected via the gearbox to the wheels. This means when the clutch is reengaged the engine side of the clutch is now rotating at a lower speed and as the clutch engages it is ‘dragged’ up to speed, which increases wear but most noticeably is not smooth – you will feel the car jerk slightly as this happens.
So as not to miss out part of the story, lets look briefly at the gearbox. Todays gearboxes are constant mesh, means all the gear pairs are always rotating, but only one gear is locked onto the output shaft at any time, else it would jam solid as each gear pair tried to rotate the shafts at different speeds at the same time.
Lets consider a car rolling down a slope at 30mph, with no engine …
In 4th gear, the output shaft of the gearbox will be rotating at 2000rpm, as dictated by the gear ratios. The 4th gear pair is transmitting the drive from the wheels through the gearbox to the input shaft (where the clutch is). The 3rd gear pair is also rotating as they are always in mesh, but the 3rd gear on the output shaft is spinning freely, at a different speed to the shaft – it is the syncro mechanism that spins the gear up to same speed as the shaft as it is selected. So in this example, when 3rd is selected the resulting speed of the gearbox side of the clutch will change from 2000 rpm, to 2300 rpm, due to the different gear ratio – which is why, when a different gear is selected, the rpm required for a given road speed changes. It’s kinda difficult to explain in words alone, and to be honest, what happens doesn’t really matter at this level. All that is required, if you are interested, is that the syncro rings in the gear box that allow gear selection without a ‘crunch’ are like mini clutches, and everytime a gear is selected, they wear slightly.
So, back to our gearchnge, from 4th to 3rd.
A better way to change gear is to mange the revs yourself. In 3rd the revs are going to end up at 2300rpm, an increase of 300rpm. As the clutch is depressed and as the gearlever is being moved to 3rd, ‘blip’ the accelerator to raise the revs say to 2500rpm (as they will drop a bit as the clutch comes up) – that way, hopefully the engine side of the clutch will match the speed of the gearbox side, and you end up with a gear change that cannot be felt, and exerts no wear on the clutch friction disk. A slightly easier way that works, if you are only changing down one gear, is to simply leave your foot exactly where it is on the accelerator, and just change gear. The engine revs will automatically rise as the clutch goes down, and if the gear change is made with the right timing, they will have raised about the right amount for the next gear.
Changing down for say 4th to 2nd is exactly the same, apart from the revs in 2nd will be even higher, so a bigger blip of the accelerator is required - eventually, once practiced enough you will get the idea of how much blip is required depending on which gears you are going in-between at which speed - muscle memory ...
Changing up, from 3rd to 4th , or 2nd to 4th a similar method can be used. This time the resulting revs for the new gear are going to be less, so considering 3rd to 4th we are going from 2300rpm to 2000rpm. Here, simply maintain a little accelerator to prevent the revs dropping too low as the gear change is made, or simply time it so that the clutch is coming up just as the revs are dropping towards 2000rpm – perfect. Exactly what is required depends on the car, some engines drop their revs quicker than others, so maintaining a bit of accelerator is required. Others drop more slowly, so a match of the speeds can be made completely by timing the gear change correctly.
Going from 2nd to 4th direct, the revs have to drop further, so simply take slightly longer to change gear (otherwise the clutch coming up drags the revs down rapidly leading to an unsmooth change, and again, increased wear).
So, how do you do this if you are braking …
This is where ‘heeling and toeing’ comes in. You brake with the ‘ball’ of you foot, but twist it at an angle so the heal (or side of the foot) can blip the throttle.
What is very difficult, at least at first, is that as you blip the throttle, you don’t want to also ‘bip’ the brake, as you will perform an emergency stop, the brake part of you foot has to maintain a constant pressure on the brake, and only rotate at this point. Its difficult at first, and as a word of warning, if you try this make sure no one is behind you … (tip, it 5 to 4, or 4 to 3 are more forgiving ….).
To complete complete the story, remember I talked about synchromesh, as these are like mini clutches – well they should last the life of the car, but they can wear out.
To avoid this, or work around the problem if they have worn out (the gears will crunch as you change, more likely when making a down change)you can double-de-clutch when changing down. This is like I explained above when you blip the throttle, but you do so with the clutch up , but in neutral, so 4th to 3rd would be …
Clutch down, into neutral, clutch up and blip, clutch down and into 3rd, clutch up …
This takes a tad longer, so a bigger blip is required to allow time for the last part of the sequence.
What this does, is because the clutch is up, but in neutral, the blip spins all the gear pairs as well, meaning that when the next lower gear is selected the job of the synchromesh has already been done, so it is not needed.
Again, this is quite difficult at first, but when you get it right the gearlever moves into gear with absolutely no resistance, almost like someone has removed the gearbox.
(It is also possible to double-de-clutch on up changes (2 to 3, 3 to 4 etc …) same process, but you don’t blip the throttle. I’ve never seen anyone do this, and don’t bother myself.)
If you are feeling really brave, try double-de-clutching whilst heel and toeing …
Here are a few video clips that nicely demonstrate things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTScu7jOJd0
This first one is made by an ex-police instructor. Notice how the revs ‘fall into place’ as the clutch is coming up, the revs are at the exact place required. Notice to, how relaxed the speed of the changes are – it all fits together when things are slowed down a bit. This is pretty much the perfect example of smoothness and mechanical sympathy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9HVkGSa694
This is a description of what is going on in the gearbox, bit easier to see with pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5zq0Jkpoo
Quite a nice example of heal and toe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU
Ayrton Senna Heal and Toe – the master at work …
Ultimately, rev matching depends on the car (one will behave differently from the other) if for example the revs drop quicker. It's a combination of muscle memory and timing. For example, if changing from 2nd to 5th the revs have some way to fall, so simply timing it right, the clutch will be coming up when the revs are in the right place. Changing from say 4th to 5th, you may need to maintain some gas, to stop the revs dropping to far.
The 'keep you foot still on the accelerator' method only works in certain conditions - for example, going from 4th to 3rd on a level road. Trying that going up a hill (you need more accelerator) and the revs will bounce off the limitor as the clutch dis-engauges.
Here is the article, hope it is useful ...
Position of hand on gear lever:
I was taught and prefer ‘thumb up, or thumb down’ (which way depends on which gear I’m selecting)– meaning the palm of my hand is against the side of the gear knob – why, it’s actually easier to select gears this way, looks and feels a little more refined, and eliminates the possibility of your hand slipping off the gearleaver. My personal view, is that it shows a little pride in what you are doing ….
Don’t ride the clutch, ever, this includes holding the car on a hill using the clutch, or creeping slowly forwards at lights while waiting for them to change - it kills clutches quickly ...
When stationary, put the car in neutral and bring you foot off the clutch completely. Why, the release bearing is only under load with the clutch depressed (and thus wears) – a part that costs what, £30 could mean a £1000+ bill to get it changed.
Hard / fast gear changes are bad for your gearbox, take things at a nice slow relaxed speed 1 to 2 seconds when changing gear, your car will thank you for it. Sure, sometimes we are going out for a bit of a blast, a sporty drive, so gear changes may speed up a bit – but for day-to-day, show some mechanical sympathy to your car, the ‘relaxed method’ is at least worth considering. If you employee the ‘double-de-clutch’ method of gear changing, then at least for down changes, the speed of the gear change is less relevant, as this method of gearchanging pretty much removes all ‘mechanical wear’ from the process.
I’ll now try and explain the more technical ways to change gear, leading to greater passenger comfort, and decreased mechanical wear. Quite simply, a gear change from any gear to any gear should not be felt, at all – this is how you do it ….
Let’s consider changing gear, between 3rd and 4th gear at 30 mph at a constant speed.
For simplicity I’ve made the following numbers up, just to keep things simple.
30mph in third gear = 2300 rpm
30 mph in forth gear = 2000 rpm
Changing down – 4th to 3rd
In 4th gear the both ‘sides’ of the clutch (engine side and gear box side) are rotating at 2000 rpm. The basic method of changing gear would be to depress the clutch, release the accelerator, select 3rd gear and then reengage the clutch and depress the accelerator.
The problem with this, is that as the clutch is depressed, the gearbox side continues to rotate at about 2000 rpm, simply because it’s connected via the gearbox to the wheels. This means when the clutch is reengaged the engine side of the clutch is now rotating at a lower speed and as the clutch engages it is ‘dragged’ up to speed, which increases wear but most noticeably is not smooth – you will feel the car jerk slightly as this happens.
So as not to miss out part of the story, lets look briefly at the gearbox. Todays gearboxes are constant mesh, means all the gear pairs are always rotating, but only one gear is locked onto the output shaft at any time, else it would jam solid as each gear pair tried to rotate the shafts at different speeds at the same time.
Lets consider a car rolling down a slope at 30mph, with no engine …
In 4th gear, the output shaft of the gearbox will be rotating at 2000rpm, as dictated by the gear ratios. The 4th gear pair is transmitting the drive from the wheels through the gearbox to the input shaft (where the clutch is). The 3rd gear pair is also rotating as they are always in mesh, but the 3rd gear on the output shaft is spinning freely, at a different speed to the shaft – it is the syncro mechanism that spins the gear up to same speed as the shaft as it is selected. So in this example, when 3rd is selected the resulting speed of the gearbox side of the clutch will change from 2000 rpm, to 2300 rpm, due to the different gear ratio – which is why, when a different gear is selected, the rpm required for a given road speed changes. It’s kinda difficult to explain in words alone, and to be honest, what happens doesn’t really matter at this level. All that is required, if you are interested, is that the syncro rings in the gear box that allow gear selection without a ‘crunch’ are like mini clutches, and everytime a gear is selected, they wear slightly.
So, back to our gearchnge, from 4th to 3rd.
A better way to change gear is to mange the revs yourself. In 3rd the revs are going to end up at 2300rpm, an increase of 300rpm. As the clutch is depressed and as the gearlever is being moved to 3rd, ‘blip’ the accelerator to raise the revs say to 2500rpm (as they will drop a bit as the clutch comes up) – that way, hopefully the engine side of the clutch will match the speed of the gearbox side, and you end up with a gear change that cannot be felt, and exerts no wear on the clutch friction disk. A slightly easier way that works, if you are only changing down one gear, is to simply leave your foot exactly where it is on the accelerator, and just change gear. The engine revs will automatically rise as the clutch goes down, and if the gear change is made with the right timing, they will have raised about the right amount for the next gear.
Changing down for say 4th to 2nd is exactly the same, apart from the revs in 2nd will be even higher, so a bigger blip of the accelerator is required - eventually, once practiced enough you will get the idea of how much blip is required depending on which gears you are going in-between at which speed - muscle memory ...
Changing up, from 3rd to 4th , or 2nd to 4th a similar method can be used. This time the resulting revs for the new gear are going to be less, so considering 3rd to 4th we are going from 2300rpm to 2000rpm. Here, simply maintain a little accelerator to prevent the revs dropping too low as the gear change is made, or simply time it so that the clutch is coming up just as the revs are dropping towards 2000rpm – perfect. Exactly what is required depends on the car, some engines drop their revs quicker than others, so maintaining a bit of accelerator is required. Others drop more slowly, so a match of the speeds can be made completely by timing the gear change correctly.
Going from 2nd to 4th direct, the revs have to drop further, so simply take slightly longer to change gear (otherwise the clutch coming up drags the revs down rapidly leading to an unsmooth change, and again, increased wear).
So, how do you do this if you are braking …
This is where ‘heeling and toeing’ comes in. You brake with the ‘ball’ of you foot, but twist it at an angle so the heal (or side of the foot) can blip the throttle.
What is very difficult, at least at first, is that as you blip the throttle, you don’t want to also ‘bip’ the brake, as you will perform an emergency stop, the brake part of you foot has to maintain a constant pressure on the brake, and only rotate at this point. Its difficult at first, and as a word of warning, if you try this make sure no one is behind you … (tip, it 5 to 4, or 4 to 3 are more forgiving ….).
To complete complete the story, remember I talked about synchromesh, as these are like mini clutches – well they should last the life of the car, but they can wear out.
To avoid this, or work around the problem if they have worn out (the gears will crunch as you change, more likely when making a down change)you can double-de-clutch when changing down. This is like I explained above when you blip the throttle, but you do so with the clutch up , but in neutral, so 4th to 3rd would be …
Clutch down, into neutral, clutch up and blip, clutch down and into 3rd, clutch up …
This takes a tad longer, so a bigger blip is required to allow time for the last part of the sequence.
What this does, is because the clutch is up, but in neutral, the blip spins all the gear pairs as well, meaning that when the next lower gear is selected the job of the synchromesh has already been done, so it is not needed.
Again, this is quite difficult at first, but when you get it right the gearlever moves into gear with absolutely no resistance, almost like someone has removed the gearbox.
(It is also possible to double-de-clutch on up changes (2 to 3, 3 to 4 etc …) same process, but you don’t blip the throttle. I’ve never seen anyone do this, and don’t bother myself.)
If you are feeling really brave, try double-de-clutching whilst heel and toeing …
Here are a few video clips that nicely demonstrate things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTScu7jOJd0
This first one is made by an ex-police instructor. Notice how the revs ‘fall into place’ as the clutch is coming up, the revs are at the exact place required. Notice to, how relaxed the speed of the changes are – it all fits together when things are slowed down a bit. This is pretty much the perfect example of smoothness and mechanical sympathy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9HVkGSa694
This is a description of what is going on in the gearbox, bit easier to see with pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5zq0Jkpoo
Quite a nice example of heal and toe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU
Ayrton Senna Heal and Toe – the master at work …
Edited by mph999 on Wednesday 28th March 23:15
Rev matching?
If your car doesn't have a direct throttle cable link to the throttle body, then your pretty much kidding yourself, because the ECU will do whatever the f**k it likes and you have no direct control. Most cars are now "fly by wire" and will hold the revs up for a second or two when you dip the clutch (depending on whether your accelerating or decelerating at the time).
lyonspride said:
Rev matching?
If your car doesn't have a direct throttle cable link to the throttle body, then your pretty much kidding yourself, because the ECU will do whatever the f**k it likes and you have no direct control. Most cars are now "fly by wire" and will hold the revs up for a second or two when you dip the clutch (depending on whether your accelerating or decelerating at the time).
A mate I was passengering with yesterday managed some pretty jerky non rev matched downchanges in a fairly modern Mondeo. If your car doesn't have a direct throttle cable link to the throttle body, then your pretty much kidding yourself, because the ECU will do whatever the f**k it likes and you have no direct control. Most cars are now "fly by wire" and will hold the revs up for a second or two when you dip the clutch (depending on whether your accelerating or decelerating at the time).
mph999 said:
Bloody hell - where did you find that? I’d forgotten that even existed!For something a little more 21st century, here’s one that wasn’t filmed on a potato and doesn’t include pasty legs:
https://youtu.be/A4rs09AKBc8
And one on heel/toe:
https://youtu.be/9owdffLKES4
lyonspride said:
Rev matching?
If your car doesn't have a direct throttle cable link to the throttle body, then your pretty much kidding yourself, because the ECU will do whatever the f**k it likes and you have no direct control. Most cars are now "fly by wire" and will hold the revs up for a second or two when you dip the clutch (depending on whether your accelerating or decelerating at the time).
really?If your car doesn't have a direct throttle cable link to the throttle body, then your pretty much kidding yourself, because the ECU will do whatever the f**k it likes and you have no direct control. Most cars are now "fly by wire" and will hold the revs up for a second or two when you dip the clutch (depending on whether your accelerating or decelerating at the time).
so if I am in 4th gear at 2,000 revs, and keeping a constant speed wish to change to 3rd gear, which will change to 2,500 revs, how is my car going to sort the revs? the M5 has an electronic throttle control, so in your theory it doesn't matter what I do, the car will do what it wants... yet rev matching gives a smooth transition, not rev matching would give a huge shunt in the drive train... the car certainly does not auto-blip, so I am not quite sure what you mean...
lyonspride said:
the ECU will do whatever the f**k it likes and you have no direct control
The ECU will do what it likes within parameters - if I push the pedal down I expect the engine to get noisier and vice versa, so I can manage the throttle the way I like. If it means I have to modify the muscle memory depending on the car I'm driving at the time to cope with the vagaries of the electronics then I will do.A better ( than the Senna clip) "master at work" : www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGIiarIrUCI&t=26s Apology about the music.
Reg; watched your clip - seems to me that you ride the clutch a bit. The pedal doesn't need to be on the floor so long.
Ddc is smoother & mechanically more sympathetic than just rev-matching (single de-clutching) all day long - both on the drivetrain & the car's overall balance ( pitch/ for-aft weight transfer).
Reg; watched your clip - seems to me that you ride the clutch a bit. The pedal doesn't need to be on the floor so long.
Ddc is smoother & mechanically more sympathetic than just rev-matching (single de-clutching) all day long - both on the drivetrain & the car's overall balance ( pitch/ for-aft weight transfer).
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