Stationary in gear

[cmaguire]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Rubbish, an extended foot/knee can cause a fracture as the forces are transferred via the talus and to some extent the navicular and cuboid, this often causes compressive fractures to the talus which is particularly unpleasant. It does not take much force to destroy that joint if said load is applied with the foot "out of position" and the leg braced by the strong leg muscles.

Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Saturday 24th March 19:40

By the sounds of it you'd be too busy concentrating on your whiplash claim (assuming your head hadn't actually detached from your body) to have time for your ankle.

[cmaguire]

Besides which, inertia would push your bodyweight backwards into the seat if hit from behind.

You're more likely to damage your ankle if you plough into something head-on.

[850R]

But ... continue to show brake lights until you are satisfied that the situation behind is stable. Commentary:

"Continuing to show brake lights until there are several vehicles stopped behind, looking for an emergency route. Now stable behind, looking for clues the lights may be about to change." In the old days of lots of dials and fewer warning systems in cars, the commentary was "taking the opportunity to check the instruments ".

Clearly reinforcing a stop with illuminated brake lights is obvious but yes once you are satisfied the car behind has seen you have stopped, there is no need to sit there for a period of time with your foot brake on, linked observations on light changes and other potential hazards doesn't mean I have switched off during my drive, that's not the taxing part of an evolving situation with basic observations, I'm merely suggesting even if brief stay at lights it's an opportunity to take stock and reflect.

[Eyersey1234]

There's a couple of junctions on one of the bus routes I drive where with certain vehicles owing to a delay of about 2 or 3 seconds before the vehicle will move when you release the handbrake you have to hold it on the foot brake as it's a right turn on a blind bend

[Munter]

cmaguire said:

Besides which, inertia would push your bodyweight backwards into the seat if hit from behind.

You're more likely to damage your ankle if you plough into something head-on.

If they are not smart enough to realise that on their own...

[Len Woodman]

cmaguire said:

Besides which, inertia would push your bodyweight backwards into the seat if hit from behind.

You're more likely to damage your ankle if you plough into something head-on.

And wouldn't that mean your foot would come off the brake just when you need it on the brake pedal?

From a health point if someone spends all day driving, say for work, and they spend a good deal of time in traffic the regular constant muscle pressure on either brake and/or clutch could be detrimental. I'm not a specialist but I have many drivers in my work who have been 'driving incorrectly' for decades and many have knee issues and varicose veins etc. Could this regular pressure on the legs and muscles contribute?

Waiting with the gear in neutral [n/a in autos] and park brake on has got to be more relaxing.

[cmaguire]

Len Woodman said:

And wouldn't that mean your foot would come off the brake just when you need it on the brake pedal?

From a health point if someone spends all day driving, say for work, and they spend a good deal of time in traffic the regular constant muscle pressure on either brake and/or clutch could be detrimental. I'm not a specialist but I have many drivers in my work who have been 'driving incorrectly' for decades and many have knee issues and varicose veins etc. Could this regular pressure on the legs and muscles contribute?

Waiting with the gear in neutral [n/a in autos] and park brake on has got to be more relaxing.

I'll stay in gear with clutch depressed only if I believe or know it is for a few seconds.
Beyond this I will usually put the vehicle in neutral and keep my foot on the brake, however if I know I will be stopped for more than around a minute then I will apply the handbrake and have both my feet on the floor.
There is no sense nor logic to remaining in gear for more than a few seconds. It just wears out the clutch release bearing and clutch generally for no reason.

[simoid]

cmaguire said:

And I feel a lot of sympathy for all the clutch release bearings.

And who the hell 'coasts' that isn't an idiot?

A lot of modern automatic German saloon owners I think Mercedes call it 'glide mode' or something.

"Sorry instructor, I was just gliding up to the roundabout..."

[waremark]

simoid said:

cmaguire said:

And I feel a lot of sympathy for all the clutch release bearings.

And who the hell 'coasts' that isn't an idiot?

A lot of modern automatic German saloon owners I think Mercedes call it 'glide mode' or something.

"Sorry instructor, I was just gliding up to the roundabout..."

Mercedes call it sailing - and don't only have it on saloons, it is on everything up to AMG GTR. I think Porsche call it gliding. At the Porsche Experience Centre they said you should learn to drive to take advantage of it. They mentioned that switching off stop start also switches off gliding.

It is interesting that you can get better economy by removing engine braking and idling the engine than by leaving the drive connected and using the overrun fuel cutoff. Presumably you only get better economy if you lift off the gas earlier than you normally would, otherwise you will use more fuel and more brakes.

What's wrong with coasting anyhow?

[foppo]

Good question what is wrong with coasting?

I do sometimes.You don't suppose to have control of your car I've been told.

[cylinderfin]

Zetec-S said:

HTP99 said:

Also now if you are in a dedicated lane then you don't have to indicate, when I was learning we had to always indicate.

I really can't understand this. It's not like it costs anything to indicate, and flicking a small lever is hardly an exertion, so why not? It's common courtesy to other road users, and helps give them a better understanding of your intentions.

Personally I can't see the logic of indicating if your in a dedicated lane. It's a bit like people indicating left at the end of our road to join the dual carriageway, you can only turn left! a classic case of people just automatically signalling without actually thinking why they are doing it.

[Jambo85]

Ardennes92 said:

Think that is very poor advice apart from riding the clutch being bad for the car, stop/start won't work if fitted

Riding the clutch means driving with it partially dis/engaged, not with it fully depressed.

[Pica-Pica]

cylinderfin said:

Zetec-S said:

HTP99 said:

Also now if you are in a dedicated lane then you don't have to indicate, when I was learning we had to always indicate.

I really can't understand this. It's not like it costs anything to indicate, and flicking a small lever is hardly an exertion, so why not? It's common courtesy to other road users, and helps give them a better understanding of your intentions.

Personally I can't see the logic of indicating if your in a dedicated lane. It's a bit like people indicating left at the end of our road to join the dual carriageway, you can only turn left! a classic case of people just automatically signalling without actually thinking why they are doing it.

Au contraire. Pedestrians who are unfamiliar with the road layout and trying to cross may appreciate the signal. People always assume signals are for motor vehicles, but they are for all road users.

[Arrius]

Leaving the car in gear can also result in an engine stop if the driver is a novice. Driving stick for new drivers is already hard enough and if a large vehicle like a bus passes too close, they might end up moving their foot from the clutch and end up having to restart the engine. It can lead to a serious accident if it happens in the wrong place wrong time. The OP is right, putting into neutral and handbrake on is also the safest way.

[NickofName]

Arrius said:

Leaving the car in gear can also result in an engine stop if the driver is a novice. Driving stick for new drivers is already hard enough and if a large vehicle like a bus passes too close, they might end up moving their foot from the clutch and end up having to restart the engine. It can lead to a serious accident if it happens in the wrong place wrong time. The OP is right, putting into neutral and handbrake on is also the safest way.

Yep. Believe it or not I have been the innocent victim of exactly this at the hands of my OH. She was behind me at a set of traffic lights and 'forgot' that she was in gear, took her foot off the clutch, launched her car surprisingly rapidly into the back of mine (I'm pretty sure this was accidental anyway...).

As a counter-point to those who think having your hand brake on won't do anything in that situation, even the piss-weak handbrake on a 350z managed to contain my OH's incompetence to just our two cars by stopping me before I hit the car in front, which I definitely would have done had I just been sat there chilling with my foot on the clutch. Neutral/Handbrake is a no-brainer for me, especially in a car that you're familiar with and can get into gear and moving again very quickly.

PS. the relationship did survive this incident, but it was a close-run thing.

[Munter]

NickofName said:

Arrius said:

Leaving the car in gear can also result in an engine stop if the driver is a novice. Driving stick for new drivers is already hard enough and if a large vehicle like a bus passes too close, they might end up moving their foot from the clutch and end up having to restart the engine. It can lead to a serious accident if it happens in the wrong place wrong time. The OP is right, putting into neutral and handbrake on is also the safest way.

Yep. Believe it or not I have been the innocent victim of exactly this at the hands of my OH. She was behind me at a set of traffic lights and 'forgot' that she was in gear, took her foot off the clutch, launched her car surprisingly rapidly into the back of mine (I'm pretty sure this was accidental anyway...).

As a counter-point to those who think having your hand brake on won't do anything in that situation, even the piss-weak handbrake on a 350z managed to contain my OH's incompetence to just our two cars by stopping me before I hit the car in front, which I definitely would have done had I just been sat there chilling with my foot on the clutch. Neutral/Handbrake is a no-brainer for me, especially in a car that you're familiar with and can get into gear and moving again very quickly.

PS. the relationship did survive this incident, but it was a close-run thing.

I appreciate everybody's situation can be different. But most people have 2 feet. In the scenario being discussed one foot is on the clutch pedal. The other foot on the brake pedal. As per the OP. Most likely one hand also being used at some point to apply the handbrake as well. So IF your momentary lapse of concentration causes you to lift the foot on the clutch pedal. The foot on the brakes, and the handbrake should be enough to solve the problem.

No I don't agree with holding the clutch pedal down. But counter arguments should probably against the described scenario in the OP, not some other random set of non-prescribed circumstances.

[7mike]

Pica-Pica said:

cylinderfin said:

Zetec-S said:

HTP99 said:

Also now if you are in a dedicated lane then you don't have to indicate, when I was learning we had to always indicate.

I really can't understand this. It's not like it costs anything to indicate, and flicking a small lever is hardly an exertion, so why not? It's common courtesy to other road users, and helps give them a better understanding of your intentions.

Personally I can't see the logic of indicating if your in a dedicated lane. It's a bit like people indicating left at the end of our road to join the dual carriageway, you can only turn left! a classic case of people just automatically signalling without actually thinking why they are doing it.

Au contraire. Pedestrians who are unfamiliar with the road layout and trying to cross may appreciate the signal. People always assume signals are for motor vehicles, but they are for all road users.

Here's a really weird and un-Pistonheads point of view; maybe you are both correct Just describing appropriate responses to different situations.

[NickofName]

Munter said:

I appreciate everybody's situation can be different. But most people have 2 feet. In the scenario being discussed one foot is on the clutch pedal. The other foot on the brake pedal. As per the OP. Most likely one hand also being used at some point to apply the handbrake as well. So IF your momentary lapse of concentration causes you to lift the foot on the clutch pedal. The foot on the brakes, and the handbrake should be enough to solve the problem.

No I don't agree with holding the clutch pedal down. But counter arguments should probably against the described scenario in the OP, not some other random set of non-prescribed circumstances.

Fair point, and I get that it isn't a direct analogy to the OP, but I think the relevant part is the mindset rather than the specific outcome in that example. E.g. had my OH been an "into neutral, handbrake on" driver rather than a "foot on clutch, other foot on footbrake" driver, that incident wouldn't have happened at all.

Also, just to be an awkward sod, having had my foot slip off the clutch whilst my other foot was still on the footbrake (usual "waiting at traffic lights" sort of pedal pressure), I can confirm that a car with a big heavy rotating mass of an engine will still lurch forward a considerable distance. I guess I just don't understand why one would get into habits that would introduce the possibility of your car suddenly shooting forwards 6 feet when there's really no need to.

[Hogstar]

The problem I would see with sitting with the car in gear, clutch down and foot brake applied, is that if your foot slipped off the clutch the car would jerk forward probably lifting your foot off the brake as well. Same as if you were hit from behind your feet would lift off the clutch and brake propelling you further forward than you would travel if you were sat in neutral with the handbrake on.

I appreciate you wouldn't always apply handbrake and select neutral for a very short stop but anything longer I would prefer handbrake and then neutral (in that order) with feet off pedals

[tonyb1968]

For me, its neutral and apply the hand brake, no foot on the foot brake as its the most annoying thing being glared by the rear brakes of the car in front of you.
The handbrake is also pretty strong, it can hold a car on a steep hill quite happily, even if you were shunted up the back side it would still stop the car rolling forward, and at all times the driver should be looking around (including the mirrors) for hazards anyway (including cars about to hit you or the cars behind).