Another r/about question
Discussion
OK, I should probably know this but ...
Two lanes on approach to a roundabout, two lanes on roundabout, 2 lanes leaving roundabout at 12 o'clock.
Roundabout has 4 exits 6, 9, 12, 3 o'clock, through the 9 o'clock exit is served be a filter lane off the left lane on approach.
Left lane on approach has arrows on road showing left and/or straight on (12 o'clock) only.
Right lane on approach has no markings.
Can you therefore use the right lane to go straight across, exiting in the right lane of the 12 o'clock exit - justified by the fact that the left lane should only go left or straight on ...
And yes, the car ahead of me in the left lane turned right ... fine, kinda saw it coming and always make allowances, ie, don't get along side etc ... but it did lead me to question myself if I really should be there in the first place ...
Two lanes on approach to a roundabout, two lanes on roundabout, 2 lanes leaving roundabout at 12 o'clock.
Roundabout has 4 exits 6, 9, 12, 3 o'clock, through the 9 o'clock exit is served be a filter lane off the left lane on approach.
Left lane on approach has arrows on road showing left and/or straight on (12 o'clock) only.
Right lane on approach has no markings.
Can you therefore use the right lane to go straight across, exiting in the right lane of the 12 o'clock exit - justified by the fact that the left lane should only go left or straight on ...
And yes, the car ahead of me in the left lane turned right ... fine, kinda saw it coming and always make allowances, ie, don't get along side etc ... but it did lead me to question myself if I really should be there in the first place ...
Yes. However, My experience is that those in the left entry lane, that leave at 12 o’clock either
a) get the hump
b) drift over to straddle both exit lanes
c) drift over to straddle roundabout lanes
d) occasionally go all the way round (note cyclists and horse-riders would tend to do this.
a) get the hump
b) drift over to straddle both exit lanes
c) drift over to straddle roundabout lanes
d) occasionally go all the way round (note cyclists and horse-riders would tend to do this.
JPJPJP said:
I'd be happy enough using the right hand lane on approach to go straight on in the road layout you describe
sounds like the other driver was at fault here and you were right to anticipate it - maybe they were lost / unfamiliar with the road etc. etc.
Indeed, I had a sixth sense on that one.sounds like the other driver was at fault here and you were right to anticipate it - maybe they were lost / unfamiliar with the road etc. etc.
I think I might revise the way I do that one, as the right lane puts you in greater risk of conflict, technically being right if isn't always the best policy.
Pica-Pica said:
Yes. However, My experience is that those in the left entry lane, that leave at 12 o’clock either
a) get the hump
b) drift over to straddle both exit lanes
c) drift over to straddle roundabout lanes
d) occasionally go all the way round (note cyclists and horse-riders would tend to do this.
Indeed, though I don't overtake on roundabouts, well not small ones, massive ones then fair enough if safe 'along the straight bits' but not when leaving ...a) get the hump
b) drift over to straddle both exit lanes
c) drift over to straddle roundabout lanes
d) occasionally go all the way round (note cyclists and horse-riders would tend to do this.
A34 Botley interchange is a roundabout above a dual carriageway. It is controlled by traffic lights for all directions.
http://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/a34/110
There's a 2 lane slip road for traffic going south to enter the roundabout and no road marking to allow 'non-highway code' use of lanes. Still, there seems to be a local, un-written rule that traffic can use the left lane approach to turn right. I can understand and accept all the arguments that, at busy times, it reduces the length of queue on the slip road.
Because it's an elevated roundabout, it's unlikely that anyone would use the straight-on exit and go back on to the A34, but they have every right to do so and to do it from the right hand lane. But it would put them in serious conflict with those turning right from the left lane.
A more frequent problem is that people turning right assume they can follow the classic highway code line and move across to the left before their exit. They may even need to do so, due to tail backs stationery vehicles going in other directions blocking the alternative. Although they are making a technically incorrect (Illegal?) maneuver, many of those turning right from the left lane don't feel any obligation to allow zip merging by or give priority to drivers who are actually behaving completely within the rules.
http://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/a34/110
There's a 2 lane slip road for traffic going south to enter the roundabout and no road marking to allow 'non-highway code' use of lanes. Still, there seems to be a local, un-written rule that traffic can use the left lane approach to turn right. I can understand and accept all the arguments that, at busy times, it reduces the length of queue on the slip road.
Because it's an elevated roundabout, it's unlikely that anyone would use the straight-on exit and go back on to the A34, but they have every right to do so and to do it from the right hand lane. But it would put them in serious conflict with those turning right from the left lane.
A more frequent problem is that people turning right assume they can follow the classic highway code line and move across to the left before their exit. They may even need to do so, due to tail backs stationery vehicles going in other directions blocking the alternative. Although they are making a technically incorrect (Illegal?) maneuver, many of those turning right from the left lane don't feel any obligation to allow zip merging by or give priority to drivers who are actually behaving completely within the rules.
Peter3442 said:
A34 Botley interchange is a roundabout above a dual carriageway. It is controlled by traffic lights for all directions.
http://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/a34/110
There's a 2 lane slip road for traffic going south to enter the roundabout and no road marking to allow 'non-highway code' use of lanes. Still, there seems to be a local, un-written rule that traffic can use the left lane approach to turn right. I can understand and accept all the arguments that, at busy times, it reduces the length of queue on the slip road.
Because it's an elevated roundabout, it's unlikely that anyone would use the straight-on exit and go back on to the A34, but they have every right to do so and to do it from the right hand lane. But it would put them in serious conflict with those turning right from the left lane.
A more frequent problem is that people turning right assume they can follow the classic highway code line and move across to the left before their exit. They may even need to do so, due to tail backs stationery vehicles going in other directions blocking the alternative. Although they are making a technically incorrect (Illegal?) maneuver, many of those turning right from the left lane don't feel any obligation to allow zip merging by or give priority to drivers who are actually behaving completely within the rules.
I know this one, and have quite often done this A34 south to A420 south from the left hand lane. It does seem to be a local unwritten rule.http://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/a34/110
There's a 2 lane slip road for traffic going south to enter the roundabout and no road marking to allow 'non-highway code' use of lanes. Still, there seems to be a local, un-written rule that traffic can use the left lane approach to turn right. I can understand and accept all the arguments that, at busy times, it reduces the length of queue on the slip road.
Because it's an elevated roundabout, it's unlikely that anyone would use the straight-on exit and go back on to the A34, but they have every right to do so and to do it from the right hand lane. But it would put them in serious conflict with those turning right from the left lane.
A more frequent problem is that people turning right assume they can follow the classic highway code line and move across to the left before their exit. They may even need to do so, due to tail backs stationery vehicles going in other directions blocking the alternative. Although they are making a technically incorrect (Illegal?) maneuver, many of those turning right from the left lane don't feel any obligation to allow zip merging by or give priority to drivers who are actually behaving completely within the rules.
yes you can approach in right-hand lane and leave at 12 o-clock
the driver in the left lane can also turn right
all cars on a roundabout must make allowance for other users of the roundabout, even where their moves may not seem logical
the highway code is pretty clear...
don’t make assumptions
watch other drivers
adjust speed to ahead / behind other cars rather than parallel
and you should have no issues...
the driver in the left lane can also turn right
all cars on a roundabout must make allowance for other users of the roundabout, even where their moves may not seem logical
the highway code is pretty clear...
don’t make assumptions
watch other drivers
adjust speed to ahead / behind other cars rather than parallel
and you should have no issues...
I drive a lot in France and roundabouts being relatively new one finds some very strange behavior there. One of the common ones there is to enter the RB on the right hand lane and then carry on right round the outside to exit at 9:00 o'clock i.e. to treat the RB as if it is bit of dual carriageway. Very rarely do they enter in the left hand lane to go to the 9:00 o'clock exit
Signalling can mean something or nothing
Signalling can mean something or nothing
akirk said:
yes you can approach in right-hand lane and leave at 12 o-clock
the driver in the left lane can also turn right
all cars on a roundabout must make allowance for other users of the roundabout, even where their moves may not seem logical
the highway code is pretty clear...
don’t make assumptions
watch other drivers
adjust speed to ahead / behind other cars rather than parallel
and you should have no issues...
The Highway Code is very clear about using the correct lanes and what they are (paragraph 186). It states that, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise, a right exit requires a right lane approach. the driver in the left lane can also turn right
all cars on a roundabout must make allowance for other users of the roundabout, even where their moves may not seem logical
the highway code is pretty clear...
don’t make assumptions
watch other drivers
adjust speed to ahead / behind other cars rather than parallel
and you should have no issues...
I am not condemning anyone for turning right from a left lane approach. However, we are all responsible for our actions and this is one that may be very dangerous. When anyone does it, they should (as you wrote) make every effort to leave space to others and always give space to those following a correct, highway code practice.
Peter3442 said:
akirk said:
yes you can approach in right-hand lane and leave at 12 o-clock
the driver in the left lane can also turn right
all cars on a roundabout must make allowance for other users of the roundabout, even where their moves may not seem logical
the highway code is pretty clear...
don’t make assumptions
watch other drivers
adjust speed to ahead / behind other cars rather than parallel
and you should have no issues...
The Highway Code is very clear about using the correct lanes and what they are (paragraph 186). It states that, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise, a right exit requires a right lane approach. the driver in the left lane can also turn right
all cars on a roundabout must make allowance for other users of the roundabout, even where their moves may not seem logical
the highway code is pretty clear...
don’t make assumptions
watch other drivers
adjust speed to ahead / behind other cars rather than parallel
and you should have no issues...
I am not condemning anyone for turning right from a left lane approach. However, we are all responsible for our actions and this is one that may be very dangerous. When anyone does it, they should (as you wrote) make every effort to leave space to others and always give space to those following a correct, highway code practice.
but the gist is that you must not read sections of the highway code in isolation
yes, there is clarity on what you is preferred, but equally the Highway Code talks about ensuring that you make allowances for anyone else whatever they are doing, acknowledging that not all road users will use the roundabout in a manner strictly in compliance with the simplistic view many have...
equally it is not illegal to come onto a roundabout in the left lane and then part way around realise you need to leave at a different exit, so continue around the roundabout - however it is every driver's obligation to drive the roundabout in such a way as to not affect / hit / etc. other road users...
rule 186 does not require you to be right lane to turn right...
Highway Code said:
When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
There is no 'must' in 186 (HC speak for legal requirement), nor even a 'should' (HC speak for you are encouraged to...) therefore rule 186 simply sets out the 'norm' for behaviour... when you tie it in with the need to ensure that you basically don't drive into other people, the interpretation is not difficult - best approach is right lane to turn right - but if you choose / need to do it differently, don't hit anyone or cause them grief!signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
So, if you get it wrong and need to continue - not a problem...
Equally, if you want to choose an empty lane in a fast car to overtake a string of traffic and can do so without affecting anyone - go ahead (but the obligation is really strongly on you to ensure that you don't cause issues)
Your last words are the only point that I was making: we should all try to avoid causing issues, on the road (and perhaps everywhere). I don't think we disagree.
When someone does something non-standard, intentionally or not, I fully agree that others should make allowance for them. However, there is an onus on them (the non-standard) not to cause problems to those following the norm.
In this case, if one car (or a whole string of cars) is taking a left lane route all the way to a 9 o'clock exit, they should try not to block people doing what is standard, but rather let them merge (zip-like) to reach the same exit. I don't think that it's a lot to ask, is it?
When someone does something non-standard, intentionally or not, I fully agree that others should make allowance for them. However, there is an onus on them (the non-standard) not to cause problems to those following the norm.
In this case, if one car (or a whole string of cars) is taking a left lane route all the way to a 9 o'clock exit, they should try not to block people doing what is standard, but rather let them merge (zip-like) to reach the same exit. I don't think that it's a lot to ask, is it?
Peter3442 said:
Your last words are the only point that I was making: we should all try to avoid causing issues, on the road (and perhaps everywhere). I don't think we disagree.
When someone does something non-standard, intentionally or not, I fully agree that others should make allowance for them. However, there is an onus on them (the non-standard) not to cause problems to those following the norm.
In this case, if one car (or a whole string of cars) is taking a left lane route all the way to a 9 o'clock exit, they should try not to block people doing what is standard, but rather let them merge (zip-like) to reach the same exit. I don't think that it's a lot to ask, is it?
I think we do agree - other than your comment that the responsibility is on the non-standard to make allowances - the HC is clear - it is the responsibility of all road users to make allowances...When someone does something non-standard, intentionally or not, I fully agree that others should make allowance for them. However, there is an onus on them (the non-standard) not to cause problems to those following the norm.
In this case, if one car (or a whole string of cars) is taking a left lane route all the way to a 9 o'clock exit, they should try not to block people doing what is standard, but rather let them merge (zip-like) to reach the same exit. I don't think that it's a lot to ask, is it?
out societal norm now of 'I am right, therefore I am going to stick to my view' causes a lot of issues...
if all road users were just a tad more relaxed, then life would be much easier
You are quite correct. We shouldn't imagine that anyone who deliberately doesn't follow practice will be polite or considerate and the same goes far too often for those who blindly and diligently follow practice. A good course in patience, politeness and consideration for others would benefit everyone.
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