Are brake lights at junctions the new front fog lights?
Discussion
We all know that if you see a vehicle with the front fog lights on in any conditions other than fog, smog, smoke or mist they are an idiot and you should give them more time and space.
The subject of people failing to use their handbrake at traffic lights, junctions and roundabouts has recently returned to the "knob thread"...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
...I had a bit of an epiphany and came to the conclusion that...
"Anyone who fails to use their handbrake are either incapable or inconsiderate".
...but it goes further than that.
I have noticed that people who fail to use their handbrake at junctions, traffic lights, roundabouts and so on also fail at other things.
So with the front fog light ethos in mind I gave them a little more attention than usual today in the name of research.
Case number 1:
I arrived and parked at a discount warehouse tat shop to get some stuff for someone else. Parking directly behind an Audi A4 Avante with its brake lights on while the driver was sat on the phone...
...I returned five minutes later and noticed he had failed to turn his headlights off.
Failed to use his handbrake, failed to turn his lights off.
Case number 2:
Stopped behind a Land Rover Discovery at a red light. Brake lights illuminated.
The driver leaned over or reached down for something and the SUV crept over the line.
Failed to use the handbrake, failed to keep control of the vehicle.
Those two were pretty crap examples of one thing leading to another. I included them primarily to demonstrate it's not always a big deal but does add to the point I'm making.
Case number 3:
At another set of traffic lights behind a Hyundai Tucson with the brake lights on.
We're in the lane to go ahead or turn right but when the left lane turned green...
...the Tucson set off and...
...had to do an emergency stop to avoid the car in front of them.
Failed to use the handbrake, failed basic observation.
Finally...
Case number 4:
Mercedes in the left turn only lane at a roundabout with the brake lights on. No indicators at all.
Almost drove into the back of the Transit pick up before cutting into lane two of the roundabout to take the third exit...
...and cutting back at speed off the roundabout at the second exit.
Failed to use the handbrake, cluster fu
ck failure of lane discipline.
So; there we have it. Are brake lights at junctions, traffic lights and/or roundabout the new front fog light idiot warning?
Yes, beyond a doubt.
Apart from "you have too much time on your hands" what do you think?
The subject of people failing to use their handbrake at traffic lights, junctions and roundabouts has recently returned to the "knob thread"...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
...I had a bit of an epiphany and came to the conclusion that...
"Anyone who fails to use their handbrake are either incapable or inconsiderate".
...but it goes further than that.
I have noticed that people who fail to use their handbrake at junctions, traffic lights, roundabouts and so on also fail at other things.
So with the front fog light ethos in mind I gave them a little more attention than usual today in the name of research.
Case number 1:
I arrived and parked at a discount warehouse tat shop to get some stuff for someone else. Parking directly behind an Audi A4 Avante with its brake lights on while the driver was sat on the phone...
...I returned five minutes later and noticed he had failed to turn his headlights off.
Failed to use his handbrake, failed to turn his lights off.
Case number 2:
Stopped behind a Land Rover Discovery at a red light. Brake lights illuminated.
The driver leaned over or reached down for something and the SUV crept over the line.
Failed to use the handbrake, failed to keep control of the vehicle.
Those two were pretty crap examples of one thing leading to another. I included them primarily to demonstrate it's not always a big deal but does add to the point I'm making.
Case number 3:
At another set of traffic lights behind a Hyundai Tucson with the brake lights on.
We're in the lane to go ahead or turn right but when the left lane turned green...
...the Tucson set off and...
...had to do an emergency stop to avoid the car in front of them.
Failed to use the handbrake, failed basic observation.
Finally...
Case number 4:
Mercedes in the left turn only lane at a roundabout with the brake lights on. No indicators at all.
Almost drove into the back of the Transit pick up before cutting into lane two of the roundabout to take the third exit...
...and cutting back at speed off the roundabout at the second exit.
Failed to use the handbrake, cluster fu
ck failure of lane discipline. So; there we have it. Are brake lights at junctions, traffic lights and/or roundabout the new front fog light idiot warning?
Yes, beyond a doubt.
Apart from "you have too much time on your hands" what do you think?
I went back into the store and told customer serviced the Audi owner had left his lights on. They made an announcement over the P.A system and he was back out to his car turning them off as I left the car park.
At junctions, and on a hill, the footbrake on many new autos acts as a ‘hill hold’ facility. When you eventually do take the foot off the service brake, the vehicle is held in place briefly, until the accelerator pedal is depressed. It works very well.
However if I stop at, say, traffic lights with someone behind, I will simply press P. That ensures; no rolling, no brake lights, and engine will be stopped, if stop/start is active and engine conditions permit. If on an incline, I also use the parking brake, which on my car is a mechanical lever.
This is an oft-repeated topic, and you will get the off-repeated replies (about eye tests, and handing your licence in if you can’t cope, etc)
However if I stop at, say, traffic lights with someone behind, I will simply press P. That ensures; no rolling, no brake lights, and engine will be stopped, if stop/start is active and engine conditions permit. If on an incline, I also use the parking brake, which on my car is a mechanical lever.
This is an oft-repeated topic, and you will get the off-repeated replies (about eye tests, and handing your licence in if you can’t cope, etc)
Until there are at least 2 stationary cars behind me I will always keep my foot on the brake peddle to keep my brake lights on even if the park brake is on.
Most modern cars with stopstart technology do irrational things if you apply the park brake and take your foot off the brake peddle.
Most modern cars with stopstart technology do irrational things if you apply the park brake and take your foot off the brake peddle.
Dixy said:
Most modern cars with stopstart technology do irrational things if you apply the park brake and take your foot off the brake peddle.
Yes they do, particularly Citroens, which will re-start.Seems easy to me, that the handbrake is for stops. But there are a lot of related (/contradictory) factors:-
- If you are about to get hit from behind then add the footbrake to the handbrake, it will reduce your whiplash;
- 21w lights do dazzle the driver behind, so it's inconsiderate to keep them on;
- Keep autos in Drive, but do use the handbrake, it makes sense;
- Automatic (/electric) handbrakes are designed by tekkies who don't drive;
I agree with the main thrust of the thread, i.e. that people who don't understand the need to switch the brake lights off also don't understand (or care about) lots of the finer points of driving.
M4cruiser said:
Dixy said:
Most modern cars with stopstart technology do irrational things if you apply the park brake and take your foot off the brake peddle.
Yes they do, particularly Citroens, which will re-start.One of my cars is an auto with foot operated handbrake. Unless I know I'm stopped for a long time I'll just keep my foot on the brake.
I'm one of those odd people with special eyes that don't get blinded by either brake lights or fog lights and a working neck that allows me to look away though so they are literally never an issue for me when I'm driving.
I'm one of those odd people with special eyes that don't get blinded by either brake lights or fog lights and a working neck that allows me to look away though so they are literally never an issue for me when I'm driving.
I have to say I find the opposite.
When you stop at lights or a junction you always spot the older cars and 50 plus drivers using the handbrake. What follows is normally a massive delay when they disengage the handbrake, struggle with the clutch and slowly move off seemingly confused by whatever the junction is.
They also normally have fog lights in whatever the weather/time and head straight to the middle lane to sit at 65.
I tend to find the younger people who have their foot on the brake in a pcp with elec handbrake/hill gold are off like a shot, although I agree without any lane discipline.
So I suspect there is probably a mixture of bad drivers. I’m not convinced not using the handbrake is the new fog lights.
Fog lights retain the tittle.
When you stop at lights or a junction you always spot the older cars and 50 plus drivers using the handbrake. What follows is normally a massive delay when they disengage the handbrake, struggle with the clutch and slowly move off seemingly confused by whatever the junction is.
They also normally have fog lights in whatever the weather/time and head straight to the middle lane to sit at 65.
I tend to find the younger people who have their foot on the brake in a pcp with elec handbrake/hill gold are off like a shot, although I agree without any lane discipline.
So I suspect there is probably a mixture of bad drivers. I’m not convinced not using the handbrake is the new fog lights.
Fog lights retain the tittle.
Interesting thread.
If I press my brake when stationary, it will stay braking even when I lift my foot away. There’s no need to use the handbrake. When I accererate the brake turns off automatically. It’s part of the automatic system with hill hold assist.
I guess this will become more common as more opt for automatics.
You better get used to it....
If I press my brake when stationary, it will stay braking even when I lift my foot away. There’s no need to use the handbrake. When I accererate the brake turns off automatically. It’s part of the automatic system with hill hold assist.
I guess this will become more common as more opt for automatics.
You better get used to it....
It's more of an observation than irritation. Don't worry I will not waste any more of my or your time looking for further examples. Not that I need to look, it happens all the time.
If you happen to notice it and think...
"Bloody Hell he was right".
...and have a dash camera, take some still and add them to the thread. Also the doddering handbrake users. In the interest of balance it would be nice to see evidence of that.
Good points about the "P" button and automatic "E" brakes.
I drove a Vauxhall with a "P" button and I found for it to work effectively you needed to stamp your foot on the brake and press it before releasing the pedal. Much the same way as you do if the handbrake isn't that good.
I'm glad some of you agree and welcome the debate.
If you happen to notice it and think...
"Bloody Hell he was right".
...and have a dash camera, take some still and add them to the thread. Also the doddering handbrake users. In the interest of balance it would be nice to see evidence of that.
Good points about the "P" button and automatic "E" brakes.
I drove a Vauxhall with a "P" button and I found for it to work effectively you needed to stamp your foot on the brake and press it before releasing the pedal. Much the same way as you do if the handbrake isn't that good.
I'm glad some of you agree and welcome the debate.
Now I get royally incensed by folk that use their fog lights when it is not foggy (visibility below 100m) and especially when they do so in the rain, where visibility is fine, other than it being wet. It is one of those “the clue is in their name, you cockwomble” things with me.
However, brake lights on when stationary does not bother me at all. Nor does using windscreen wipers when it is not really raining. Or driving with a window partially open rather than fully open.
I used to get incensed by people failing to use their indicators, until I discovered that most of those BMW drivers simply didn’t select “indicators” on the options list that BMW provide, possibly a genuine oversight, or assumption that they were standard equipment and therefore forgiveable to a degree.
Stop Start technology is infuriatingly annoying and probably causes massive wear and tear in the long term, not to mention that the only reason it exists is so manufacturers can fudge fuel efficiency figures, when in the real world it makes bugger all difference. There is nothing convenient or beneficial about it all in terms of driver assistance.
Just conforming to expectations....
However, brake lights on when stationary does not bother me at all. Nor does using windscreen wipers when it is not really raining. Or driving with a window partially open rather than fully open.
I used to get incensed by people failing to use their indicators, until I discovered that most of those BMW drivers simply didn’t select “indicators” on the options list that BMW provide, possibly a genuine oversight, or assumption that they were standard equipment and therefore forgiveable to a degree.
Stop Start technology is infuriatingly annoying and probably causes massive wear and tear in the long term, not to mention that the only reason it exists is so manufacturers can fudge fuel efficiency figures, when in the real world it makes bugger all difference. There is nothing convenient or beneficial about it all in terms of driver assistance.
Just conforming to expectations....
Were the above cars Autos? I live in plymouth the home of traffic, lights and random junctions. I have auto hold on my car but would have to put it in to N, otherwise I'm sat with my hand brake on in drive, which can't be good for the box?
Also are they that bothersome? I have never really noticed.
Also are they that bothersome? I have never really noticed.
Have to say I am with you on this, and then we got a new car with electric hand brake.
The button is under the dash which is bloody stupid. So unless I know I am going to stopped for a while I use the foot bake.
I suspect this combined with more autos means more eye searing brake lights. Although we are sat in a monster truck the lights are no longer at eye level.
The button is under the dash which is bloody stupid. So unless I know I am going to stopped for a while I use the foot bake.
I suspect this combined with more autos means more eye searing brake lights. Although we are sat in a monster truck the lights are no longer at eye level.
I'd like to steer us away from the new LED brake lights that are visible from space as it's about driving technique. Only two of the examples I used had LED brake lights and it was broad daylight so a non-issue.
Since doing a hill start with the handbrake has been taken away from the standing driving test a crop of newer drivers don't know how to do it.
Driving instructors teach pupils how to pass a test not necessarily how to drive.
It's this lack of ability to perform one of the most simple driving personeuvers that leads to the failure to do other equally as simple tasks.
Since doing a hill start with the handbrake has been taken away from the standing driving test a crop of newer drivers don't know how to do it.
Driving instructors teach pupils how to pass a test not necessarily how to drive.
It's this lack of ability to perform one of the most simple driving personeuvers that leads to the failure to do other equally as simple tasks.
"personeuvers" instead of "maneuvers" in case any militant feminist extremists read this thread and are offended.
As noted above it's quite possible that these cars have an 'auto hold' handbrake. My VW golf has one and I found out (after following my wife and moaning like you ) that the rear brake lights come on whenever the auto hold cuts in. the only way around this is to manually put the auto hold into parking mode (which rather defeats the purpose of them IMHO).
So now if I am stopped at traffic lights for sometime I will override the auto hold - but if I stop, say at a roundabout, then I leave it to sort itself out.
See https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... as an example,
So now if I am stopped at traffic lights for sometime I will override the auto hold - but if I stop, say at a roundabout, then I leave it to sort itself out.
See https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... as an example,
This is where in the knob thread I suggested the brake lights turn off automatically after say five or six seconds if the speed sensor remains at zero. Pedal pressed or not (auto-stop).
Manufacturers are intent on making cars that do most of the driving for us (to make us used to the idea of full automation) why not a simple timer to save others hassle?
Manufacturers are intent on making cars that do most of the driving for us (to make us used to the idea of full automation) why not a simple timer to save others hassle?
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