Why do so few people ‘use all of the road’?

[Graveworm]

nonsequitur said:

Using all of the road is a poor driving tecnique. Can you really be sure there is nothing oncoming, a cyclist, a horse, a parked car, anything that would make such a move dangerous.

The same way you can or cannot be really sure of those things when not using all the road.. Except if used appropriately using all the road you can see further and better so even more sure.

nonsequitur said:

But the IAM and the police do it

Along with RosPA The Ambulance Service, Fire brigade & DVSA (who are responsible for the Highway code).
As usual the inconvenient truth is the drivers who do have less accidents and get cheaper insurance...

Edited by Graveworm on Monday 22 April 22:22

[spikyone]

nonsequitur said:

Using all of the road is a poor driving tecnique. Can you really be sure there is nothing oncoming, a cyclist, a horse, a parked car, anything that would make such a move dangerous.

Your username is apt. You've incorrectly jumped from a specific description of offsiding done in an unsafe manner - without being able to see that the road is clear - to the conclusion that all offsiding is unsafe.

The point is that a safe, intelligent driver will only do it where road conditions allow, and taking into account all of the information available to them. That includes an assessment of hazards that might not be immediately visible. If there's not enough information to tell you that it's completely clear and safe to do so, you shouldn't do it.

[Wollemi]

CABC said:

illegal in NZ. you can cross broken white lines solely to overtake.

NZ is not somewhere to look for for good driving and safety on the roads. Low speed limits and rules like this are perhaps responsible to the dawdling along paying no attention at all which results in a RTA frequency of more than twice that of the UK.

[Graveworm]

Wollemi said:

CABC said:

illegal in NZ. you can cross broken white lines solely to overtake.

NZ is not somewhere to look for for good driving and safety on the roads. Low speed limits and rules like this are perhaps responsible to the dawdling along paying no attention at all which results in a RTA frequency of more than twice that of the UK.

Plus really hard to turn right

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 23 April 00:40

[lyonspride]

nonsequitur said:

GOATever said:

I’m often driving early in the morning, or late at night. The roads are (typically) quieter than at other times of the day. As long as there are no solid white lines, and I can see what’s ahead clearly, I ‘use all of the road’ but I find that most people I know, religiously stick to the left lane, even when it was clear to use the other carriageway, on a twisty for example. Why do they not use the available road, to it’s full potential? I find it odd.

Using all of the road is a poor driving tecnique. Can you really be sure there is nothing oncoming, a cyclist, a horse, a parked car, anything that would make such a move dangerous.
Most drivers stick to the left hand lane as the HC says 'keep left unless overtaking, passing a parked vehicle' etc. If you have any respect for the HC, that it teaches the safest way to drive and, as PHers, why shouldn't we, and not pick and choose which bits to follow or ignore.

But the IAM and the police do it, so that's OK then.

Forgive me if I take that with a large sack of salt........... Often the people who say what your saying, are the people who think straight lining roundabouts makes them look like great drivers.
There are circumstance where using all of the road is perfectly safe and perfectly legit, yet few do it. Whilst straight lining roundabouts is a mugs game and 90%+ of people seem to do it, with almost none of those using their goddamn mirrors.

And yeah, this is a little personal........ I just got my Westfield out of storage on Friday, less than 2 miles from home some old git in a new Freelander nearly pushed me into a roundabout, no doubt he never uses all the road and would think it dangerous, yet he's perfectly happy to straight line a roundabout in his PCP'd Chelsea tractor, nearly writing off a car which i've put my own blood sweat and tears into.

[Gary C]

nonsequitur said:

Gary C said:

Was thinking about this thread today on the way back from my parents.

Around Eaton near Oulton park, there is a section if you cross the white line, you can maintain a full clear view of the road ahead. This allows you to maintain reasonable progress while actually being safer.

Reading between the lines, so to speak, 'reasonable progress' could also be made by staying in the left hand lane.

Not as much and not as safe/

Because I can see on coming cars (or the lack of) I know there is more leeway if there are other hazards such as people etc, I know i have more room to move if i need to whereas without the sight line i might want to go a lot slower as i could meet a tractor and pedestrians with nowhere to go. Im only over the line when it would be safe and easy to move back and as i would see on comming trafic, even emerging traffic early i can just lift and coast and move back gently, no drama.

It does work, and its not poor driving.

Now im not talking about thrashing down a lane and taking the racing line round every corner. It just gives me an earlier warning of a hazard and more options if i see one

edit - you do have to be aware of cars behind. while its unlikely to happen, if a car following wants to overtake and you stray across the line, then you become a hazard.

Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 23 April 08:20

[Wollemi]

lyonspride said:

Forgive me if I take that with a large sack of salt........... Often the people who say what your saying, are the people who think straight lining roundabouts makes them look like great drivers.
There are circumstance where using all of the road is perfectly safe and perfectly legit, yet few do it. Whilst straight lining roundabouts is a mugs game and 90%+ of people seem to do it, with almost none of those using their goddamn mirrors.

Well I was taught to straight line roundabouts; using a pre 1974 copy of Roadcraft when it was still included in the book as a recommended technique.
BUT the teaching was to only straight line a roundabout IF there was no one else on the roundabout in which case it still makes sense to me.

Sadly I can’t find my ancient copy, to quote the guidance given back then.

[Pica-Pica]

Gary C said:

edit - you do have to be aware of cars behind. while its unlikely to happen, if a car following wants to overtake and you stray across the line, then you become a hazard.

Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 23 April 08:20

..and therein lies the problem. Trying thinking of ROAD USERS, and not just CARS. More likely to be a motorcycle you fail to see.
This is not just pedantry - the mindset that writes cars, only thinks, and looks for, cars.

[Monkeylegend]

Pica-Pica said:

Gary C said:

edit - you do have to be aware of cars behind. while its unlikely to happen, if a car following wants to overtake and you stray across the line, then you become a hazard.

Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 23 April 08:20

..and therein lies the problem. Trying thinking of ROAD USERS, and not just CARS. More likely to be a motorcycle you fail to see.
This is not just pedantry - the mindset that writes cars, only thinks, and looks for, cars.

...............and the mindset that only thinks of ROAD USERS misses other hazards, instructions/signage and adverse road conditions

[Pica-Pica]

Monkeylegend said:

Pica-Pica said:

Gary C said:

edit - you do have to be aware of cars behind. while its unlikely to happen, if a car following wants to overtake and you stray across the line, then you become a hazard.

Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 23 April 08:20

..and therein lies the problem. Trying thinking of ROAD USERS, and not just CARS. More likely to be a motorcycle you fail to see.
This is not just pedantry - the mindset that writes cars, only thinks, and looks for, cars.

...............and the mindset that only thinks of ROAD USERS misses other hazards, instructions/signage and adverse road conditions

Nope. I said think of road users in place of cars. Not ‘road users’ in place of ‘everything else’. Good, but weak, effort though.

[Dr Jekyll]

Pica-Pica said:

Gary C said:

edit - you do have to be aware of cars behind. while its unlikely to happen, if a car following wants to overtake and you stray across the line, then you become a hazard.

Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 23 April 08:20

..and therein lies the problem. Trying thinking of ROAD USERS, and not just CARS. More likely to be a motorcycle you fail to see.
This is not just pedantry - the mindset that writes cars, only thinks, and looks for, cars.

'Car' was just an example surely. if I say I control my speed into a blind bend because there may be a tractor stopped just out of sight, it doesn't mean I'm ignoring the possibility of cyclists horses or combine harvesters.

[nonsequitur]

lyonspride said:

Forgive me if I take that with a large sack of salt........... Often the people who say what your saying, are the people who think straight lining roundabouts makes them look like great drivers.
There are circumstance where using all of the road is perfectly safe and perfectly legit, yet few do it.

1...People who say what I am saying would never straight line a RAB.
2...I wonder why that is?

Edited by nonsequitur on Tuesday 23 April 09:47

[nonsequitur]

Graveworm said:

Along with RosPA The Ambulance Service, Fire brigade & DVSA (who are responsible for the Highway code).

Edited by Graveworm on Monday 22 April 22:22

The HC states 'Keep to the left unless road markings or signs say otherwise.'
And the only guidence with anything remotely conneted to this discussion is,' Keep well to the left on RH bends for a better view.'

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

What does Roadcraft say about it?

It seems a bit limited to join a discussion on advanced techniques, but then justify all your arguments with the most basic, entry-level text.

[Johnnytheboy]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

What does Roadcraft say about it?

It seems a bit limited to join a discussion on advanced techniques, but then justify all your arguments with the most basic, entry-level text.

Nonsequitur seems to have mellowed since he changed his username from WD39.

It's good to see him back stubbornly defending a position that most of PH disagree with.

[spikyone]

Wollemi said:

lyonspride said:

Forgive me if I take that with a large sack of salt........... Often the people who say what your saying, are the people who think straight lining roundabouts makes them look like great drivers.
There are circumstance where using all of the road is perfectly safe and perfectly legit, yet few do it. Whilst straight lining roundabouts is a mugs game and 90%+ of people seem to do it, with almost none of those using their goddamn mirrors.

Well I was taught to straight line roundabouts; using a pre 1974 copy of Roadcraft when it was still included in the book as a recommended technique.
BUT the teaching was to only straight line a roundabout IF there was no one else on the roundabout in which case it still makes sense to me.

Sadly I can’t find my ancient copy, to quote the guidance given back then.

It’s a similar situation to offsiding, and something that I discussed specifically on my observed drives before taking the IAM test. If you’re aware of your surroundings and have carried out proper observation there is nothing automatically wrong with straight lining a roundabout.
The problem is all the numpties that don’t mirror-check and just blindly straight line. I’ll always hang back when entering a roundabout if there’s a car to my left, because 9 times out of 10 they’ll be the type that straight lines with their brain switched off. You can usually spot them from the direction their car is pointing if they’ve stopped to give way.

[nonsequitur]

spikyone said:

nonsequitur said:

Using all of the road is a poor driving tecnique. Can you really be sure there is nothing oncoming, a cyclist, a horse, a parked car, anything that would make such a move dangerous.

Your username is apt. You've incorrectly jumped from a specific description of offsiding done in an unsafe manner - without being able to see that the road is clear - to the conclusion that all offsiding is unsafe.

The point is that a safe, intelligent driver will only do it where road conditions allow, and taking into account all of the information available to them. That includes an assessment of hazards that might not be immediately visible. If there's not enough information to tell you that it's completely clear and safe to do so, you shouldn't do it.

Thank you for your user name comment. I'm glad you like it. I now have a following.

[lyonspride]

spikyone said:

Wollemi said:

lyonspride said:

Forgive me if I take that with a large sack of salt........... Often the people who say what your saying, are the people who think straight lining roundabouts makes them look like great drivers.
There are circumstance where using all of the road is perfectly safe and perfectly legit, yet few do it. Whilst straight lining roundabouts is a mugs game and 90%+ of people seem to do it, with almost none of those using their goddamn mirrors.

Well I was taught to straight line roundabouts; using a pre 1974 copy of Roadcraft when it was still included in the book as a recommended technique.
BUT the teaching was to only straight line a roundabout IF there was no one else on the roundabout in which case it still makes sense to me.

Sadly I can’t find my ancient copy, to quote the guidance given back then.

It’s a similar situation to offsiding, and something that I discussed specifically on my observed drives before taking the IAM test. If you’re aware of your surroundings and have carried out proper observation there is nothing automatically wrong with straight lining a roundabout.
The problem is all the numpties that don’t mirror-check and just blindly straight line. I’ll always hang back when entering a roundabout if there’s a car to my left, because 9 times out of 10 they’ll be the type that straight lines with their brain switched off. You can usually spot them from the direction their car is pointing if they’ve stopped to give way.

The funny thing is, they always get into the correct lane first, so it's not a case of "brain switched off", it's a deliberate act carried out by someone lacking basic driving skills.

This is why I never straight line roundabouts, I take the correct line in defiance against these idiots, AND even doing this 90% of cars following me, will STILL make a point of straight lining it, why? Because they think it makes them look like superior drivers, it's no different to people using their front fog lights, they know it's wrong, but they think they're projecting an image of being better than everyone else.

[nonsequitur]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

What does Roadcraft say about it?

It seems a bit limited to join a discussion on advanced techniques, but then justify all your arguments with the most basic, entry-level text.

Why bother with Roadcraft? Surely common sense and instinct on the road will tell you to keep to your lane. The HC is full of common sense, which is why most mtorists adhere to it. (With the odd exceeption of course).

[DoubleD]

Johnnytheboy said:

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

What does Roadcraft say about it?

It seems a bit limited to join a discussion on advanced techniques, but then justify all your arguments with the most basic, entry-level text.

Nonsequitur seems to have mellowed since he changed his username from WD39.

It's good to see him back stubbornly defending a position that most of PH disagree with.

Some people dont understand or get it, not a lot that you can do for them tbh