Who's at fault?
Discussion
watchnut said:
mickyh7 said:
Ride a bike?
Never, ever trust anyone else.
They will kill you.
First thing to learn before you even sit on a bike.
First 12 months of Motorcycling are the test.
Survive that and you'll be fine.
And always look into the car drivers eyes. You'll soon know if they have seen you.
Proper Schoolboy error.
Totally your fault.
I wouldn't suggest "looking into their eyes" I thought that once on a roundabout, I carried on around, and the dozy bint pulled out in front of me....i crashed into the side of her...it hurt...a lot....it also cost me my career owing to my injuries....she said " I didn't see you" I swear even now she was looking at meNever, ever trust anyone else.
They will kill you.
First thing to learn before you even sit on a bike.
First 12 months of Motorcycling are the test.
Survive that and you'll be fine.
And always look into the car drivers eyes. You'll soon know if they have seen you.
Proper Schoolboy error.
Totally your fault.
Many drivers at junctions "look" for cars ....they should maybe "look" for pedestrians, cyclists, motorbikes, cars, vans, lorries in that order?
treat every other road user as a complete idiot, and then when they act like one it has not "surprised" you :0
The difference between looking without seeing. Most of us can probably relate to this, whether it's driving a car or looking for something on supermarket shelves. At the end of the day though, you have to make progress along a road. You can't stop for everyone at side junctions. Sure, you can mitigate against the risk by putting yourself in a safer position in the road for your vision, for their vision, and for possible accident avoidance; you can cover the brake; slow your vehicle etc; but ultimately you do have to pass the junction.
RobM77 said:
The difference between looking without seeing. Most of us can probably relate to this, whether it's driving a car or looking for something on supermarket shelves. At the end of the day though, you have to make progress along a road. You can't stop for everyone at side junctions. Sure, you can mitigate against the risk by putting yourself in a safer position in the road for your vision, for their vision, and for possible accident avoidance; you can cover the brake; slow your vehicle etc; but ultimately you do have to pass the junction.
Solocle said:
RobM77 said:
The difference between looking without seeing. Most of us can probably relate to this, whether it's driving a car or looking for something on supermarket shelves. At the end of the day though, you have to make progress along a road. You can't stop for everyone at side junctions. Sure, you can mitigate against the risk by putting yourself in a safer position in the road for your vision, for their vision, and for possible accident avoidance; you can cover the brake; slow your vehicle etc; but ultimately you do have to pass the junction.
I'd like to see a return to public information adverts - they need only be short. The field of view of a horse, reasons cyclists and runners hate riding inches from the edge of country lanes for very long, why stopping is a hassle for most road cyclists etc. Also more general things like why "turndicating" is stupid and why we need to signal well in advance of a junction, or why overtaking on a junction is a bad idea. I get overtaken on a junction near to us every day; as I slow to take the left turn at a crossroads, every single day the car behind, ay 60mph, takes to the other side of the road to pass. It's going to end badly one day.
If you've got away with 50/50 you've done very well IMO.
I'll add another couple of points that are worth considering.
1. Wait until the indicating car is committed to the turn AND you can see that the road behind is clear. Another vehicle behind who decides to overtake the turning vehicle may be unaware of you coming out of the junction. They certainly shouldn't overtake there but sometimes they do.
2. Crash for cash. Approach a junction with a car waiting to pull out, indicate left, even flash them out, wait until they start to pull out then cancel the indicator and drive into them. Deny any indication and sue them for the whiplash etc etc. Don't be a victim of that, make sure they are committed to the turn and the road is clear before you pull out.
Just my two penneth worth.
I'll add another couple of points that are worth considering.
1. Wait until the indicating car is committed to the turn AND you can see that the road behind is clear. Another vehicle behind who decides to overtake the turning vehicle may be unaware of you coming out of the junction. They certainly shouldn't overtake there but sometimes they do.
2. Crash for cash. Approach a junction with a car waiting to pull out, indicate left, even flash them out, wait until they start to pull out then cancel the indicator and drive into them. Deny any indication and sue them for the whiplash etc etc. Don't be a victim of that, make sure they are committed to the turn and the road is clear before you pull out.
Just my two penneth worth.
Enut said:
If you've got away with 50/50 you've done very well IMO.
I'll add another couple of points that are worth considering.
1. Wait until the indicating car is committed to the turn AND you can see that the road behind is clear. Another vehicle behind who decides to overtake the turning vehicle may be unaware of you coming out of the junction. They certainly shouldn't overtake there but sometimes they do.
2. Crash for cash. Approach a junction with a car waiting to pull out, indicate left, even flash them out, wait until they start to pull out then cancel the indicator and drive into them. Deny any indication and sue them for the whiplash etc etc. Don't be a victim of that, make sure they are committed to the turn and the road is clear before you pull out.
Just my two penneth worth.
Exept on point 2, if your a Motorcyclist, you may well be dead now ? I'll add another couple of points that are worth considering.
1. Wait until the indicating car is committed to the turn AND you can see that the road behind is clear. Another vehicle behind who decides to overtake the turning vehicle may be unaware of you coming out of the junction. They certainly shouldn't overtake there but sometimes they do.
2. Crash for cash. Approach a junction with a car waiting to pull out, indicate left, even flash them out, wait until they start to pull out then cancel the indicator and drive into them. Deny any indication and sue them for the whiplash etc etc. Don't be a victim of that, make sure they are committed to the turn and the road is clear before you pull out.
Just my two penneth worth.
No one does Crash for Cash on Bikes. Too many Bars of Soap to pick up.
I hope your ok? Thats rather s
t to say the least!
You did mention that the car had its indicator on for some time down the road. That would have caused me to hesitate in pulling out from the junction.
Ive had a number of times someone in exactly this scenario and allway's went with my gut feeling.
t to say the least!You did mention that the car had its indicator on for some time down the road. That would have caused me to hesitate in pulling out from the junction.
Ive had a number of times someone in exactly this scenario and allway's went with my gut feeling.
I have been driving for 40 years (Doesn't necessarily make me a good driver)
I was a driving instructor and passed my Advanced Test at twenty one.
It was 100% your fault,a schoolboy error.
If drivers around you are doing stupid things it's your responsibility to act correctly.
Learn from your mistakes!
I still learning to drive after all these years,you never stop learning!
I was a driving instructor and passed my Advanced Test at twenty one.
It was 100% your fault,a schoolboy error.
If drivers around you are doing stupid things it's your responsibility to act correctly.
Learn from your mistakes!
I still learning to drive after all these years,you never stop learning!
Hi, I had a very similar experience to you, I was in my Audi 100 CS Quattro (it was around 1990) turning right into a very busy road, I had looked both ways & had seen a gap coming up on the left, I glanced to my right & saw a red Metro with it's left hand indicator on coming from my right, I (wrongly) assumed she was going to turn left into the road I was coming out of & set off, she glanced off the front of my car knocking my headlamp washer & number plate off, hit a wall and rolled over. Luckily, nobody in the Metro was hurt, turns out she had had her indicator on for over a mile before the collision and there was a witness to prove it. I had to appear in court & got done for driving without due care & attention (4 points & £100 fine) she also got done for driving without consideration for other road users
Friend of mine was involved in a low speed collision on a narrow piece of road she knows well. She drives being able to stop in the distance she can see to be clear. The young lad in the shed coming the other way wasn't. At the scene he was all "sorry, my fault". she didn't take photos, get him to sign anything, video the scene... Two days later - presumably after Dad got hold of him, it's "no, she was going too fast as well".
Friend's insurance company originally said it's 50/50. A couple of days later she and I went back to the scene and photographed the marks still visible. Hers - a foot or less of skid mark from her offside front. His - 40 / 50 yards, tyre marks still visible in the soft verge, along with the crushed grass where he ended up at a big angle on the verge. We drew up a document with the photos, measurements and a statement and sent it off to the insurance company.
Result - 6 months later it's 100% his fault, her insurance refunded the excess, and she had her faultless insurance record restored. What makes it worse is the lad had a black box in his car - I'd love to have seen the telematics ...
Friend's insurance company originally said it's 50/50. A couple of days later she and I went back to the scene and photographed the marks still visible. Hers - a foot or less of skid mark from her offside front. His - 40 / 50 yards, tyre marks still visible in the soft verge, along with the crushed grass where he ended up at a big angle on the verge. We drew up a document with the photos, measurements and a statement and sent it off to the insurance company.
Result - 6 months later it's 100% his fault, her insurance refunded the excess, and she had her faultless insurance record restored. What makes it worse is the lad had a black box in his car - I'd love to have seen the telematics ...
dvenman said:
Friend of mine was involved in a low speed collision on a narrow piece of road she knows well. She drives being able to stop in the distance she can see to be clear. The young lad in the shed coming the other way wasn't. At the scene he was all "sorry, my fault". she didn't take photos, get him to sign anything, video the scene... Two days later - presumably after Dad got hold of him, it's "no, she was going too fast as well".
Friend's insurance company originally said it's 50/50. A couple of days later she and I went back to the scene and photographed the marks still visible. Hers - a foot or less of skid mark from her offside front. His - 40 / 50 yards, tyre marks still visible in the soft verge, along with the crushed grass where he ended up at a big angle on the verge. We drew up a document with the photos, measurements and a statement and sent it off to the insurance company.
Result - 6 months later it's 100% his fault, her insurance refunded the excess, and she had her faultless insurance record restored. What makes it worse is the lad had a black box in his car - I'd love to have seen the telematics ...
I had a similar experience many years ago. I was in a slow moving queue of cars on an arrow straight Roman road and a lady coming towards me was trying to read a map and drive at the same time. She swerved across the road and punted my MR2 into a ditch, then tried to leg it. She got caught in traffic and the guy behind me stopped his car and ran down the road to get her. She admitted fault at the scene etc - it was her husband's car, which she wasn't used to, and she was lost, trying to find her way home etc. I was obviously a bit perturbed, but accepted the situation. I got a call from the insurance company a while later to say that I'd lost control on a bend (what bend?) and slid sideways into her!! I asked if they'd spoken to my witness (the man who ran after her) and they said no. Once they'd spoken to him and another person it was all sorted.Friend's insurance company originally said it's 50/50. A couple of days later she and I went back to the scene and photographed the marks still visible. Hers - a foot or less of skid mark from her offside front. His - 40 / 50 yards, tyre marks still visible in the soft verge, along with the crushed grass where he ended up at a big angle on the verge. We drew up a document with the photos, measurements and a statement and sent it off to the insurance company.
Result - 6 months later it's 100% his fault, her insurance refunded the excess, and she had her faultless insurance record restored. What makes it worse is the lad had a black box in his car - I'd love to have seen the telematics ...
Dashcams are the best way to avoid these sorts of things, and despite the general mood over on GG against them, I think they're worth every penny.
The signal from the lady could perfectly well have been to show an intention to turn left/move over/stop/drive off the road after your junction. The fact that it was an error on her part is irrelevant to the OP's interpretation.
I live on a road that tees off just a few metres past another exit. As I have some concern for misinterpretation of my signal, In consequence, depending on the other vehicles around, I will signal a long way before the exits to warn a following vehicle, cancel the signal sufficiently before the first exit, and start it again immediately after the first exit. It may not be Highway Code and I may appear to be lost, but if it avoids an accident that's all OK.
I live on a road that tees off just a few metres past another exit. As I have some concern for misinterpretation of my signal, In consequence, depending on the other vehicles around, I will signal a long way before the exits to warn a following vehicle, cancel the signal sufficiently before the first exit, and start it again immediately after the first exit. It may not be Highway Code and I may appear to be lost, but if it avoids an accident that's all OK.
Y Cymro said:
RobM77 said:
Dashcams are the best way to avoid these sorts of things, and despite the general mood over on GG against them, I think they're worth every penny.
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