Drivers following too close to you. Noticed any pattern?

Drivers following too close to you. Noticed any pattern?

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Jon39

Original Poster:

12,782 posts

142 months

Saturday 10th August 2019
quotequote all

When I posted a topic here recently, I only expected a couple of replies, but so far it has entertained you all for 14 pages.
See how you get on with this one.

During recent years (town driving) I have noticed when a vehicle is following too close to me, that the driver is almost always a young woman. Might be a young lady, but cannot tell by just looking in the mirror. - wink

We constantly hear now about equal rights, so why don't I see a broader mix of men and women of all ages following too close? - wink

When this does occur, I reduce speed to minimise the chance of me having to brake sharply. If the road conditions ahead happen to become safe, I might slow a little more and invite an overtake. In the 1970s that was easy. A few flashes with the left hand indicator on a straight road, was a widely understood unofficial signal. Now though, the young women just want to follow, but not overtake. On one occasion, with no oncoming traffic in sight and after indicating left, we both came to a halt beside the kerb (road wide enough for three vehicles). Presumably the young lady was only paying attention to the rear of my car, and not observing any of the road conditions into the distance ahead.

So if your experience is the same as mine, the question is, why is it mostly young women who are driving in this hazardous way?





Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 10th August 17:34

pomodori

4,404 posts

78 months

Saturday 10th August 2019
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Because they aren't paying attention except to Twitfaceinstachat.

Dixy

2,913 posts

204 months

Saturday 10th August 2019
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Like Nelly the Elephant they just follow the tail of the one in front.
The driving too close stops after the first time they run in the back of someone. Young men think they are driving gods and just overtake with frequently even more disastrous consequences.
If only everyone was taught how to overtake properly.
On my regular commute I usually catch the tail of a queue behind the no 28 bus, it almost always stops to pick up the same lady half way along a clear sighted wide road, it indicates early and yet the car immediately behind still slows and frequently stops so close behind that it struggles to come out to pass.
They tend to be the same ones doing 65 in lane 2 of a motorway 30 feet behind the car in front and 30 feet in front of the car behind, with nothing in lane 1.


Edited by Dixy on Saturday 10th August 21:30

RSTurboPaul

10,219 posts

257 months

Saturday 10th August 2019
quotequote all
I have also found that people behind following closely have no idea what to do when you signal left to indicate they can overtake - they seem to slow down and back off rather than be looking for the overtake already and nipping past.

Paynewright

659 posts

76 months

Saturday 10th August 2019
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I had a yoof today - 6ft off my bumper at 60mph on b roads. Hazards on and they backed off. Coming out of next village I stuck at 30 till they overtook. I was in the 911 and think they wanted to play.

shake n bake

2,221 posts

206 months

Saturday 10th August 2019
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Yeah, usually a fat lipped chick 3” off my bumper, been this way for the past 3 years.
Equality and that.

BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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I'm pretty sure this nonsense is in the wrong forum. Struggling to see any advanced driving content.
Bert

Pica-Pica

13,617 posts

83 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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RSTurboPaul said:
I have also found that people behind following closely have no idea what to do when you signal left to indicate they can overtake - they seem to slow down and back off rather than be looking for the overtake already and nipping past.
Au contraire! On a week away in Kent, driving down a winding country lane, a motorbike approached rapidly, and he held back a suitable distance. On the next straight stretch, I gave a quick left flick of the indicator, he opened up, went past, raised a left hand in thanks. All very civilised and co-operative.

Wooda80

1,743 posts

74 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Transit ( or Vivaro smile) type van doing 65ish in lane 3 of 4 on an otherwise deserted M60 the other evening. And a red Insignia seemingly clamped to its back bumper... confused

meatballs

1,140 posts

59 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
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Today was a man in an SUV in a 30. Couldn't keep up in the NSL and then sped through the following 40 so he could tailgate some more. I thought it must have been nice for him to have such a nice close up and clear view of my rear facing child...

GW65

623 posts

205 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
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Probably get a better range of examples from observing others being tailgated rather than looking in one's own mirror... Based on one 20-minute journey last week along predominantly single-carriageway roads with varying speed limits:
- several vans (small CDVs through to large-ish transit-style) tailgating cars doing the speed limit, often through 40 limits with lots of hazards, and just as often before darting off left into a side-turning
- an 8-year-old Audi A5 with two stick-on vinyl quattro badges on the tailgate (either side of the Audi rings) in a 30 behind a car doing the speed limit. Must have been one of the rare 8x8 Audis.

Dizeee

18,166 posts

205 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
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Well, to put it into an AD context as moaned about above, it all depends on your perception of how close too close is.

My wife and no doubt the driver in front of me will often grumble / perceive that I am too close to the car in front. What they fail to realise is my thought processes, and the possible reasons why I am closer than normal. Neither she nor they have any idea that I am actually in the following position, scrutinising developing opportunities to overtake and constantly risk assessing. My closer position affords me less distance in which to complete the overtake and also yields good depth of vision down the nearside, offside and under the chassis when negotiating bumpy twisty B roads.

In my 95 bhp Kia hatch, or her 1.4 diesel Kia estate fully laden with kids, bags and a roof box, there are finite opportunities to implement a successful overtake. And, by successful, I mean smooth transition towards and into the following position, followed by an equally smooth change to the overtake position and onwards without jostling the accelerator or having to snatch brakes post manoeuvre. Interestingly in these cars, much of the decision making comes form what I anticipate the drivers response to me overtaking will be. Any sign of them taking offence and trying to interrupt me by accelerating or otherwise, and I have no chance, as in these cars I have zero acceleration - plus there is no way I am going to put myself in the position of an aborted overtake with them in the car, that's not to say I take extra risks alone but I know that my thought processes behind the wheel are totally different to theirs and as such they may perceive my actions as dangerous purely because they do not understand.

GW65

623 posts

205 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
quotequote all
Dizeee said:
Well, to put it into an AD context as moaned about above, it all depends on your perception of how close too close is.

My wife and no doubt the driver in front of me will often grumble / perceive that I am too close to the car in front. What they fail to realise is my thought processes, and the possible reasons why I am closer than normal. Neither she nor they have any idea that I am actually in the following position, scrutinising developing opportunities to overtake and constantly risk assessing. My closer position affords me less distance in which to complete the overtake and also yields good depth of vision down the nearside, offside and under the chassis when negotiating bumpy twisty B roads.

In my 95 bhp Kia hatch, or her 1.4 diesel Kia estate fully laden with kids, bags and a roof box, there are finite opportunities to implement a successful overtake. And, by successful, I mean smooth transition towards and into the following position, followed by an equally smooth change to the overtake position and onwards without jostling the accelerator or having to snatch brakes post manoeuvre. Interestingly in these cars, much of the decision making comes form what I anticipate the drivers response to me overtaking will be. Any sign of them taking offence and trying to interrupt me by accelerating or otherwise, and I have no chance, as in these cars I have zero acceleration - plus there is no way I am going to put myself in the position of an aborted overtake with them in the car, that's not to say I take extra risks alone but I know that my thought processes behind the wheel are totally different to theirs and as such they may perceive my actions as dangerous purely because they do not understand.
Actually, the closer you get to the vehicle in front, the WORSE your view is around and underneath that vehicle - hanging back gives you a clearer view and shifting your position within your lane will help even more. Try standing right behind your car then standing several car lengths behind it and noticing the difference.

Equally, in a lower-powered car, it's far safer to overtake with an existing speed differential as you pull out to pass the vehicle in front rather than be closer and only starting to create a speed differential after you pull out - it also makes you less vulnerable to the car being overtaken starting to accelerate at the same point you do. So hanging back, waiting until it's clear, starting to accelerate and then pulling out with a speed differential is the way to go.

Talaus

1,015 posts

256 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
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GW65 said:
Dizeee said:
Well, to put it into an AD context as moaned about above, it all depends on your perception of how close too close is.

My wife and no doubt the driver in front of me will often grumble / perceive that I am too close to the car in front. What they fail to realise is my thought processes, and the possible reasons why I am closer than normal. Neither she nor they have any idea that I am actually in the following position, scrutinising developing opportunities to overtake and constantly risk assessing. My closer position affords me less distance in which to complete the overtake and also yields good depth of vision down the nearside, offside and under the chassis when negotiating bumpy twisty B roads.

In my 95 bhp Kia hatch, or her 1.4 diesel Kia estate fully laden with kids, bags and a roof box, there are finite opportunities to implement a successful overtake. And, by successful, I mean smooth transition towards and into the following position, followed by an equally smooth change to the overtake position and onwards without jostling the accelerator or having to snatch brakes post manoeuvre. Interestingly in these cars, much of the decision making comes form what I anticipate the drivers response to me overtaking will be. Any sign of them taking offence and trying to interrupt me by accelerating or otherwise, and I have no chance, as in these cars I have zero acceleration - plus there is no way I am going to put myself in the position of an aborted overtake with them in the car, that's not to say I take extra risks alone but I know that my thought processes behind the wheel are totally different to theirs and as such they may perceive my actions as dangerous purely because they do not understand.
Actually, the closer you get to the vehicle in front, the WORSE your view is around and underneath that vehicle - hanging back gives you a clearer view and shifting your position within your lane will help even more. Try standing right behind your car then standing several car lengths behind it and noticing the difference.

Equally, in a lower-powered car, it's far safer to overtake with an existing speed differential as you pull out to pass the vehicle in front rather than be closer and only starting to create a speed differential after you pull out - it also makes you less vulnerable to the car being overtaken starting to accelerate at the same point you do. So hanging back, waiting until it's clear, starting to accelerate and then pulling out with a speed differential is the way to go.
I fully agree with GW65 on this, and was pretty much what I was going to write.

The 2 second rule as draconian as it sounds is there for a reason. Your "reactions" are certainly not sufficient to be sitting on someones arse and be able to respond to a hazard in a safe manner and so I can understand why the person in front feels uncomfortable as well as your wife. I fully understand the lack of power, but causing your passengers to feel uncomfortable isn't exactly pleasant driving and putting the children at risk isnt great either. It wouldn't exactly tick any of the advanced driving badges. (Sorry for the condescending approach)

As for better view up the nearside, not sure why? Other than approaching a right hand bend is the only time you should pull up close to the vehicle ahead, otherwise you are just hiding your view of junctions, cyclists etc etc.



Dizeee

18,166 posts

205 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
quotequote all
GW65 said:
Actually, the closer you get to the vehicle in front, the WORSE your view is around and underneath that vehicle - hanging back gives you a clearer view and shifting your position within your lane will help even more. Try standing right behind your car then standing several car lengths behind it and noticing the difference.

Equally, in a lower-powered car, it's far safer to overtake with an existing speed differential as you pull out to pass the vehicle in front rather than be closer and only starting to create a speed differential after you pull out - it also makes you less vulnerable to the car being overtaken starting to accelerate at the same point you do. So hanging back, waiting until it's clear, starting to accelerate and then pulling out with a speed differential is the way to go.
That's certainly true of road with good vision or a wider aspect, but I am thinking of a specific type of road when I type the above - narrow, twisty B roads. The speed differential is valid when you have a run up, but, with the twisty roads, there is often no run up. Often it means no overtake is possible, but that's life, safety must come first, sparkle and speed later on.

It is in the exact movement within the lane that you describe, that enhanced vision can be gained around a close car to facilitate an overtake. Extraordinary detail down the nearside and to the offside can be gleaned with well times positioning and anticipation.

Momentum overtakes present additional risk and should be avoided unless the overtake is already on at the point of committal. - you are accelerating into a hazard.

Dizeee

18,166 posts

205 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
quotequote all
Talaus said:
I fully agree with GW65 on this, and was pretty much what I was going to write.

The 2 second rule as draconian as it sounds is there for a reason. Your "reactions" are certainly not sufficient to be sitting on someones arse and be able to respond to a hazard in a safe manner and so I can understand why the person in front feels uncomfortable as well as your wife. I fully understand the lack of power, but causing your passengers to feel uncomfortable isn't exactly pleasant driving and putting the children at risk isnt great either. It wouldn't exactly tick any of the advanced driving badges. (Sorry for the condescending approach)

As for better view up the nearside, not sure why? Other than approaching a right hand bend is the only time you should pull up close to the vehicle ahead, otherwise you are just hiding your view of junctions, cyclists etc etc.
Don't get me wrong, I am not sitting on the bumper or tailgating - what I am doing is reducing the distance from myself to a car ahead of me that I reasonably expect to be able to overtake. For me to do this the vehicle will generally already be travelling beneath the speed limit, or at a speed which presents a safe opportunity in which to carry out the overtake. I am not in the habit of placing people in danger, least of all my family. It is also normal for people to question what your doing when they are not used to it - it's very true that I would not have driven with such a reduced distance when taking my driving test, however, I am fortunate enough to have been taught over the last 10 or so years how to truly drive on a public road, and unless you have had that input as well as put it into practice over a pro-longed period of time, it is very hard almost impossible to get across the changes in driving behaviour and increase in awareness that you develop.

Your not sure why you would wish to have better view up the nearside? I can only assume this is a misunderstanding seeing as this is an AD forum... Nearside view around a left hand bend affords the earliest vision to plan your overtake on the exit, providing it is safe of course. Pulling up close to a vehicle on a right hand bend? I don't understand that. Maintain position and move nearside to gain early vision yes, but no need to move up. You move up to prepare for an overtake, you move back (ease off ) to stretch the elastic when your vehicle has an option to take... other than that no need to adjust follow distance, road position to achieve best vision is all that is required. Hence, information POSITION speed gear acceleration.

meatballs

1,140 posts

59 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
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Closer you are on the right hand bend the sooner you get a clear view and can make a decision?

Dizeee

18,166 posts

205 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
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OMG .... no.

The better positioned you are, on the approach to and through a right hand bend, the better vision you gain in order to make a decision on what to do next. In the main, that will be to see what unfolds in terms of hazards on the exit and beyond.On a RH, thats from positioning wide to the left, or nearside.

Being closer affords you the early vision, and the lesser distance, to carry out your plan.

But its very complex.

Generally, distance is irrelevant - keep as far back as suits you ( able to stop own side of road / distance seen to be clear etc ).

Position to gain vision, and sight, and information, and plan.


Blend each as you see fit dependent on ability....

meatballs

1,140 posts

59 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Dizeee said:
OMG .... no.

Being closer affords you the early vision, and the lesser distance, to carry out your plan.
Disagrees, then instantly confirms rolleyes

Dizeee

18,166 posts

205 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
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meatballs said:
Disagrees, then instantly confirms rolleyes
My point is, it is about lateral position, not following distance, on both right and left bends.

You shouldn't need to adjust your following distance because of a bend, only because of the presence of a hazard or option which may affect the movements of the car being followed. Moving from the verge to the crown of the road, sometimes using the offside carriageway for vision, is lateral positional movement that will afford you the best vision to plan.