Drivers following too close to you. Noticed any pattern?
Discussion
Dizeee said:
My point is, it is about lateral position, not following distance, on both right and left bends.
You shouldn't need to adjust your following distance because of a bend, only because of the presence of a hazard or option which may affect the movements of the car being followed. Moving from the verge to the crown of the road, sometimes using the offside carriageway for vision, is lateral positional movement that will afford you the best vision to plan.
So you are it you aren't uncomfortably close to the car in front? I'm confused.You shouldn't need to adjust your following distance because of a bend, only because of the presence of a hazard or option which may affect the movements of the car being followed. Moving from the verge to the crown of the road, sometimes using the offside carriageway for vision, is lateral positional movement that will afford you the best vision to plan.
BertBert said:
So you are it you aren't uncomfortably close to the car in front? I'm confused.
So you are or you aren't? Is that what you meant?I am not too close to the car in front, for me, and in terms of my capabilities.I possibly travel closer to a car than most would if I am in the circumstances I have described previously, i.e an overtake is anticipated or imminent. But, that doesn't mean that in the opinion of my wife, or the other driver, that I am not too close. They may feel that I am. This is why I say it is all down to perception. What I am comfortable with, they may not be, so despite the fact that I am ready and able to brake if required, because my wife and potentially the other driver don't know my mindset, their perception would be that I am tailgating.
Think of it like the person who flashes you when you overtake them. You have sat behind them at 40 in the 30's for miles, then in an NSL they remain at 40 so you carry out a textbook overtake with an abundance of time to spare. You look in your mirror to see headlight flashes, a shake of the head, and a waving arm, all because they "feel" or "perceive" you to be dangerous. But your not dangerous, you are in fact an advanced driver. They are just too ignorant and unfamiliar with the concept, that they feel the need to remonstrate with you.
Another example would be a lane change I carried out the other week on the M25 in crawling traffic, where I am subjected to a long blast of the horn by a car in the distance behind me as I change from a faster lane to a slower lane. To an uneducated passenger, the horn note subconsiously put's me at fault - as I moved out I must have caused this horn note, so I must have been a hazard to the other driver etc. However, in reality, the horn note was given in anger and impatience, at the fact that I had the cheek to move across into the lane and hold up a vehicle that was far enough in the distance not to even warrant an indication. and who should not have been looking to undertake anyway.
So getting back to the question about tailgating, my point is, there may be many stories of people tailgating or following too close, but of some of those, the tailgater may not be the aggressive driver being depicted. 2 sides to every story after all.
Dizeee said:
You have sat behind them at 40 in the 30's for miles,
It's late and so you're going to have to excuse me, but what does that mean?I'm going to have a stab at 'you've been unable to reduce your speed from 40mph to 30mph to comply with the speed limit'
How does that happen?
...perhaps because you're an advanced driver, is that what you mean?
Or have I stayed up past my bed time and missed something?
ChrisnChris said:
It's late and so you're going to have to excuse me, but what does that mean?
I'm going to have a stab at 'you've been unable to reduce your speed from 40mph to 30mph to comply with the speed limit'
How does that happen?
...perhaps because you're an advanced driver, is that what you mean?
Or have I stayed up past my bed time and missed something?
There is no bedtime here!I'm going to have a stab at 'you've been unable to reduce your speed from 40mph to 30mph to comply with the speed limit'
How does that happen?
...perhaps because you're an advanced driver, is that what you mean?
Or have I stayed up past my bed time and missed something?
I get your speed limit comment, I accept it. Your right in that by law, nobody should be at 40 in a 30.
That said the "40 in a 30" statement is a classic in AD. The point being, when we talk about this type of driver, we mean those that are so unaware of the posted limit or their surroundings, that they do 40 everywhere.
AD is not about exceeding the limit. Or should i say, it shouldn't be. Going fast isn't advanced - knowing where to go fast is. But that depends on a whole range of factors.
Dizeee said:
There is no bedtime here!
I get your speed limit comment, I accept it. Your right in that by law, nobody should be at 40 in a 30.
That said the "40 in a 30" statement is a classic in AD. The point being, when we talk about this type of driver, we mean those that are so unaware of the posted limit or their surroundings, that they do 40 everywhere.
AD is not about exceeding the limit. Or should i say, it shouldn't be. Going fast isn't advanced - knowing where to go fast is. But that depends on a whole range of factors.
I don't think I'm going to get very far with this am I?I get your speed limit comment, I accept it. Your right in that by law, nobody should be at 40 in a 30.
That said the "40 in a 30" statement is a classic in AD. The point being, when we talk about this type of driver, we mean those that are so unaware of the posted limit or their surroundings, that they do 40 everywhere.
AD is not about exceeding the limit. Or should i say, it shouldn't be. Going fast isn't advanced - knowing where to go fast is. But that depends on a whole range of factors.
It is too easy for you to post your own 'suite the situation' wriggle room.
Break the law, "well, yes, I was, but he was too and he's not an advanced driver" "I'm an AD so I'm in a position to decide when the law applies to me"
I would say, without knowing your actual driving style, as opposed to your perceived driving style, that you, perhaps, would fall into the category of "a certain type of driver"
If you are in fact an 'advanced driver', I think maybe your driving style, as posted, might bring into question the validity of any such "qualification"
Perhaps your standards have slipped and you need a refresher course. Isn't there something like this meted out to persistant offenders?
Just to give this some added perspective, I've been driving for many many years. Apart from short journeys around town in built up areas, or situations where it's impossible, I think I'm able to say with some certainty that every single significant journey I have ever made has resulted in me breaking a speed limit, somewhere, by whatever margin.
ChrisnChris said:
I don't think I'm going to get very far with this am I?
It is too easy for you to post your own 'suite the situation' wriggle room.
Break the law, "well, yes, I was, but he was too and he's not an advanced driver" "I'm an AD so I'm in a position to decide when the law applies to me"
I would say, without knowing your actual driving style, as opposed to your perceived driving style, that you, perhaps, would fall into the category of "a certain type of driver"
If you are in fact an 'advanced driver', I think maybe your driving style, as posted, might bring into question the validity of any such "qualification"
Perhaps your standards have slipped and you need a refresher course. Isn't there something like this meted out to persistant offenders?
Just to give this some added perspective, I've been driving for many many years. Apart from short journeys around town in built up areas, or situations where it's impossible, I think I'm able to say with some certainty that every single significant journey I have ever made has resulted in me breaking a speed limit, somewhere, by whatever margin.
I feel the same about not getting anywhere, I don't really understand the angle your taking. I have been making an overall point about the perception of tailgating, and how what some may perceive to be tailgating might not in fact be tailgating. I thought it would be an interesting angle in line with the topic. It is too easy for you to post your own 'suite the situation' wriggle room.
Break the law, "well, yes, I was, but he was too and he's not an advanced driver" "I'm an AD so I'm in a position to decide when the law applies to me"
I would say, without knowing your actual driving style, as opposed to your perceived driving style, that you, perhaps, would fall into the category of "a certain type of driver"
If you are in fact an 'advanced driver', I think maybe your driving style, as posted, might bring into question the validity of any such "qualification"
Perhaps your standards have slipped and you need a refresher course. Isn't there something like this meted out to persistant offenders?
Just to give this some added perspective, I've been driving for many many years. Apart from short journeys around town in built up areas, or situations where it's impossible, I think I'm able to say with some certainty that every single significant journey I have ever made has resulted in me breaking a speed limit, somewhere, by whatever margin.
My point about 40 in the 30 and 40 in the NSL was in regards to driver ignorance. What I posted was a hypothetical scenario, and uses probably the most well known stereotype of poor driver i.e those who stick at 40 everywhere and display shocking unawareness of both posted limits as well as opportunities to make progress. I am not saying that last week I physically sat behind someone at 40 in a 30. Hence why I said I accepted your point about 40 i n a 30 - I used the example hypothetically and so did not feel the need to follow it up with the legalities around it.
Your remarks about being a certain type of driver who positions themselves above others may apply to many, but I can assure you that's not how my mindset is. We are all as vulnerable to the rules of the road as each other and any risks taken will have consequences. None of us have ever "not sped" so of course there have been occasions where I have crept over the limit. That said, how and when this happens falls to me as a driver and if I am unlucky to get caught nudging slightly over the posted limit for whatever reason, I will face the consequences. The same applies to other drivers around me, whom as with all of us, I will know nothing about. Everyone's ability is an unknown therefore assumptions can't be made about what they are capable of. So I don't drive about with my head up my backside and an arrogant grin on my face - I am humble enough to feel confident in my ability but savvy enough to know that I will no doubt be in the vicinity of equally capable behind the wheel, some of them possibly with more driving experience than I may have.
Arrogance and ignorance personified. Sorry.
You merely demonstrate an inveterate desire to continue your poor practices.
Overtaking is a mugs game, sure go for it for pleasure "because you can" and it's obviously safe to do so but it won't necessarily get you to your destination any sooner. It is probably a nugatory exercise.
As for putting your passengers at risk with your continual assesment of the minutiae of an anticipated overtake, give me a break.
If you're in a situation where you're willing to place anyone at the kind of risk where those minute calls of judgement are necessary, you shouldn't be on the road, tailgating or otherwise. Save it for the track. You're putting other peoples lives at risk, despite your perceived driving prowess.
Hey ho, I only hope you don't spend too many hours of your life behind the wheel. And none glued to my bumper.
Heaven help us if you drive for a living. (Uber?) I'm sure you know best though
You merely demonstrate an inveterate desire to continue your poor practices.
Overtaking is a mugs game, sure go for it for pleasure "because you can" and it's obviously safe to do so but it won't necessarily get you to your destination any sooner. It is probably a nugatory exercise.
As for putting your passengers at risk with your continual assesment of the minutiae of an anticipated overtake, give me a break.
If you're in a situation where you're willing to place anyone at the kind of risk where those minute calls of judgement are necessary, you shouldn't be on the road, tailgating or otherwise. Save it for the track. You're putting other peoples lives at risk, despite your perceived driving prowess.
Hey ho, I only hope you don't spend too many hours of your life behind the wheel. And none glued to my bumper.
Heaven help us if you drive for a living. (Uber?) I'm sure you know best though
If I know there is a good straight bit of road ahead and can overtake, will close up behind the car just a little, but in a lower gear to allow engine braking to control and helps if need to do emergency action.
If the road ahead does not present a safe overtaking situation, will then reduce back to a safe distance.
It does make me laugh when you see a driver in front say behind a HGV, 2 feet from it then peering in and out of the lane to see oncoming, when if they held back would have a better and safer view anyway. Especially with modern turbo diesels you can squeeze on effortlessly, without having to follow so close.
Although with alot of torque sometimes you feel can do an overtake when maybe should not, guess is about spacial awareness and capability of your car. If doing 60 and choose to overtake, can quickly be doing 80+ by the end of it. Which cannot be safe as cars are only crash tested at 40mph.
But yes unless you behind a tractor, generally there is no need to overtake as will catch the traffic up later on anyway, I think alot of drivers overtake just to feel the thrill of dropping a few gears and flooring it. Many a time they are coming the other way, and if you were not concentrating without input could have been an accident.
Especially on a B road, nothing wrong with lowering the speed, and being in correct gear, not so much trying to improve your own driving style, but being in a responsive state to manage the idiot coming the other way. Something you become more in tune with after driving for so many years.
If the road ahead does not present a safe overtaking situation, will then reduce back to a safe distance.
It does make me laugh when you see a driver in front say behind a HGV, 2 feet from it then peering in and out of the lane to see oncoming, when if they held back would have a better and safer view anyway. Especially with modern turbo diesels you can squeeze on effortlessly, without having to follow so close.
Although with alot of torque sometimes you feel can do an overtake when maybe should not, guess is about spacial awareness and capability of your car. If doing 60 and choose to overtake, can quickly be doing 80+ by the end of it. Which cannot be safe as cars are only crash tested at 40mph.
But yes unless you behind a tractor, generally there is no need to overtake as will catch the traffic up later on anyway, I think alot of drivers overtake just to feel the thrill of dropping a few gears and flooring it. Many a time they are coming the other way, and if you were not concentrating without input could have been an accident.
Especially on a B road, nothing wrong with lowering the speed, and being in correct gear, not so much trying to improve your own driving style, but being in a responsive state to manage the idiot coming the other way. Something you become more in tune with after driving for so many years.
Edited by freddie2020 on Monday 19th August 00:06
Edited by freddie2020 on Monday 19th August 00:14
Edited by freddie2020 on Monday 19th August 00:19
freddie2020 said:
Although with alot of torque sometimes you feel can do an overtake when maybe should not, guess is about spacial awareness and capability of your car. If doing 60 and choose to overtake, can quickly be doing 80+ by the end of it. Which cannot be safe as cars are only crash tested at 40mph
Well you're fEdited by freddie2020 on Monday 19th August 00:06
ked at 60 thenOvertaking in a slow car can be a pain in the arse. I daily a 86hp Jimny, I do imagine I look a bit of a tt, I seldom tailgate, however on a NSL road I know well I am always preemptively opening up a gap & pinning the throttle on bits where I know I have the view for an overtake ahead, to try gain a bit of speed to slingshot past, of course when there is inevitably traffic I need to back off and open my gap again.
Funnily enough on that same car I used to notice a fairly massive difference in the attitudes of other people over my previous cars, Jimnies are the car of choice of old biddies here (rural Scotland), I found when I first got it everyone made a mad dash to get ahead of you even when you where trying to make good progress, funnily enough this appeared to stop after I modified it lightly.
t, I seldom tailgate, however on a NSL road I know well I am always preemptively opening up a gap & pinning the throttle on bits where I know I have the view for an overtake ahead, to try gain a bit of speed to slingshot past, of course when there is inevitably traffic I need to back off and open my gap again. Funnily enough on that same car I used to notice a fairly massive difference in the attitudes of other people over my previous cars, Jimnies are the car of choice of old biddies here (rural Scotland), I found when I first got it everyone made a mad dash to get ahead of you even when you where trying to make good progress, funnily enough this appeared to stop after I modified it lightly.
Sort of, the crash tests at 40, are a full stop of the car, if doing 60 then bounce off might be fine.
I see in the US they do Small Overlap crash tests, only 25% of the front impacted, Volvo passed all of them, other brands caught up after that.
It is basically when an impact is to far on the corner to hit the subframe / chassis rail so another piece of structure is placed between the chassis rail and bulkhead high up around the wing, pushing the car outwards in such a situation.
Youtube B8 Audi A4 compared to 1st gen Volvo V60, small over lap crash to test to see.
I see in the US they do Small Overlap crash tests, only 25% of the front impacted, Volvo passed all of them, other brands caught up after that.
It is basically when an impact is to far on the corner to hit the subframe / chassis rail so another piece of structure is placed between the chassis rail and bulkhead high up around the wing, pushing the car outwards in such a situation.
Youtube B8 Audi A4 compared to 1st gen Volvo V60, small over lap crash to test to see.
meatballs said:
Well you're fked at 60 then
ked at 60 thenEdited by freddie2020 on Monday 19th August 00:26
Edited by freddie2020 on Monday 19th August 00:28
Edited by freddie2020 on Monday 19th August 00:35
Driving along a busy, speed humped High St yesterday at 20mph in our old Fiesta.
I was tailgated in an impressive style seen only before in Buenos Aires (and Antwerp).
The driver of the car(only just) behind was waving their arms about and gurning like Bez from The Happy Mondays. The car was also weaving around behind me, but didn't overtake.
They got more annoyed when I stopped behind a parked car due to insufficient space for my car and oncoming vehicles. They then didn't set off for a few seconds, but resumed tailgating at the first opportunity, then turned off soon afterwards.
In this case, it was a young woman.....
I was tailgated in an impressive style seen only before in Buenos Aires (and Antwerp).
The driver of the car(only just) behind was waving their arms about and gurning like Bez from The Happy Mondays. The car was also weaving around behind me, but didn't overtake.
They got more annoyed when I stopped behind a parked car due to insufficient space for my car and oncoming vehicles. They then didn't set off for a few seconds, but resumed tailgating at the first opportunity, then turned off soon afterwards.
In this case, it was a young woman.....
ST2 said:
In this case, it was a young woman.....
It nearly always is
Agreed, it's as if they have no understanding of stopping distances at all, either that or some gangsta wannabe in an X5/Q7.It nearly always is
Another thing I have noticed recently is people drive as if they want to overtake you but never actually overtake. Right on your bumper as far to the right of the lane as they can get when there is no way they can overtake due to traffic. Aggressive driving for no reason at all, almost just to intimidate people.
Oh and women in big four wheel drives (usually Audi again) when pulling right out of a junction think it is acceptable to pull into the first lane, hold up traffic and then wait until someone in the other lane lets them go. I have giving up tooting my horn I just drive up to them as quickly as I can and brake at the last minute inches away now.
Oh and people who for some reason don't think their car can make a turn so steer into the other lane first before turning.
People are very strange. Trouble is once people start doing these things other people follow suit.
Joey Deacon said:
Aggressive driving for no reason at all, almost just to intimidate people.
I have giving up tooting my horn I just drive up to them as quickly as I can and brake at the last minute inches away now.
People are very strange. Trouble is once people start doing these things other people follow suit.
I have giving up tooting my horn I just drive up to them as quickly as I can and brake at the last minute inches away now.
People are very strange. Trouble is once people start doing these things other people follow suit.
freddie2020 said:
It does make me laugh when you see a driver in front say behind a HGV, 2 feet from it then peering in and out of the lane to see oncoming, when if they held back would have a better and safer view anyway. Especially with modern turbo diesels you can squeeze on effortlessly, without having to follow so close.
I had a particularly good laugh when someone was doing that with a tractor (except without the peering). Meanwhile, I was sat a comfortable distance behind, had a good view, and, when the opportunity arose, I opened it up and zipped past them both. On a bicycle. 
Solocle said:
freddie2020 said:
It does make me laugh when you see a driver in front say behind a HGV, 2 feet from it then peering in and out of the lane to see oncoming, when if they held back would have a better and safer view anyway. Especially with modern turbo diesels you can squeeze on effortlessly, without having to follow so close.
I had a particularly good laugh when someone was doing that with a tractor (except without the peering). Meanwhile, I was sat a comfortable distance behind, had a good view, and, when the opportunity arose, I opened it up and zipped past them both. On a bicycle. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-493938...
ChrisnChris said:
Arrogance and ignorance personified. Sorry.
You merely demonstrate an inveterate desire to continue your poor practices.
Overtaking is a mugs game, sure go for it for pleasure "because you can" and it's obviously safe to do so but it won't necessarily get you to your destination any sooner. It is probably a nugatory exercise.
As for putting your passengers at risk with your continual assesment of the minutiae of an anticipated overtake, give me a break.
If you're in a situation where you're willing to place anyone at the kind of risk where those minute calls of judgement are necessary, you shouldn't be on the road, tailgating or otherwise. Save it for the track. You're putting other peoples lives at risk, despite your perceived driving prowess.
Hey ho, I only hope you don't spend too many hours of your life behind the wheel. And none glued to my bumper.
Heaven help us if you drive for a living. (Uber?) I'm sure you know best though
I do drive for a living funnily enough. And, looking at your location I am also a local driver to you. You merely demonstrate an inveterate desire to continue your poor practices.
Overtaking is a mugs game, sure go for it for pleasure "because you can" and it's obviously safe to do so but it won't necessarily get you to your destination any sooner. It is probably a nugatory exercise.
As for putting your passengers at risk with your continual assesment of the minutiae of an anticipated overtake, give me a break.
If you're in a situation where you're willing to place anyone at the kind of risk where those minute calls of judgement are necessary, you shouldn't be on the road, tailgating or otherwise. Save it for the track. You're putting other peoples lives at risk, despite your perceived driving prowess.
Hey ho, I only hope you don't spend too many hours of your life behind the wheel. And none glued to my bumper.
Heaven help us if you drive for a living. (Uber?) I'm sure you know best though
I have done my best to explain my rational and offered up a different angle to the conversation by way of perception of what is and isn't tailgating. You seem to have taken offence to this and decided you know everything about me and my driving style, when you haven't a clue about either. It's PH at it's best, so only raises a smile this end.
Fear not however, I will continue to drive arrogantly, ignorantly, and put my family at high risk by persistently being a mug and searching for that last minute overtake that only remains viable in a split second of the available vision. Plus I won't check over my right shoulder before moving out either, just for added risk.
Edited by Dizeee on Monday 19th August 12:54
BertBert said:
I'm pretty sure this nonsense is in the wrong forum. Struggling to see any advanced driving content.
Bert
It may be in the wrong place, but tailgating is always an interesting subject to discuss, especially how do you stop / avoid it. My fave is the hazards, always effective. (mostly)!Bert
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