Signalling and Lane Assist
Discussion
I’m not sure lane keeping assist is really for trying to stop you from crossing the boundaries of a lane - although the system is designed to help with that.
The lane keeping assist function is really there to make barely perceptible corrections to your steering to keep you centred in a lane when cruising - which reduces effort ergo fatigue.
Some people misinterpret the function as an auto steering function. In fact it is specifically designed not to be too intrusive so you don’t get relaxed and rely on the system beyond lane centering.
It is not really a safety function but a fatigue reducing function.
If it was an all out safety function you would have to make a far greater effort with the steering wheel to override the ‘assist’ and change lane without indicating.
As an aside, the idea that signalling when you don’t need to is an indication (no pun) of poor observation is utter rubbish.
Either you ‘observed’ or you didn’t; whether you put the indicators on or not after your observation has no bearing on whether you ‘observed’ in the first place.
As IAM instructors climax in their pants at a driver for not putting on their indicators ‘unnecessarily’ how do they know the driver observed in the first place or just got lucky that they didn’t need to indicate?
The lane keeping assist function is really there to make barely perceptible corrections to your steering to keep you centred in a lane when cruising - which reduces effort ergo fatigue.
Some people misinterpret the function as an auto steering function. In fact it is specifically designed not to be too intrusive so you don’t get relaxed and rely on the system beyond lane centering.
It is not really a safety function but a fatigue reducing function.
If it was an all out safety function you would have to make a far greater effort with the steering wheel to override the ‘assist’ and change lane without indicating.
As an aside, the idea that signalling when you don’t need to is an indication (no pun) of poor observation is utter rubbish.
Either you ‘observed’ or you didn’t; whether you put the indicators on or not after your observation has no bearing on whether you ‘observed’ in the first place.
As IAM instructors climax in their pants at a driver for not putting on their indicators ‘unnecessarily’ how do they know the driver observed in the first place or just got lucky that they didn’t need to indicate?
Edited by sasha320 on Friday 7th August 05:55
I ask them to do commentary from drive 2. It is the only way to be able to assess someone’s observation skills.
Start small with “tell me every time you see a bike” move to “tell me what the signs mean when you see them” and then start having them add what it means to them and what do they plan to do about it.
Start small with “tell me every time you see a bike” move to “tell me what the signs mean when you see them” and then start having them add what it means to them and what do they plan to do about it.
Edited by Starfighter on Friday 7th August 09:54
sasha320 said:
the idea that signalling when you don’t need to is an indication (no pun) of poor observation is utter rubbish.
Signalling when there is no need to is generally an indication of an action done out of unconscious habit.I have deliberately not given my opinion on whether this is good or bad because I don't want to get involved in the inevitable disagreement that would occur.
sasha320 said:
I’m not sure lane keeping assist is really for trying to stop you from crossing the boundaries of a lane - although the system is designed to help with that.
The lane keeping assist function is really there to make barely perceptible corrections to your steering to keep you centred in a lane when cruising - which reduces effort ergo fatigue.
The only function of lane keeping assist systems which I have experienced is to provide a little resistance to the steering wheel when crossing a lane marking without signalling. It has not done anything to keep the car centred in its lane.The lane keeping assist function is really there to make barely perceptible corrections to your steering to keep you centred in a lane when cruising - which reduces effort ergo fatigue.
Edited by sasha320 on Friday 7th August 05:55
Incidentally, I don't consider it best practice to keep the car centred in lane.
I don't signal when there is no-one to benefit and I turn off this sort of lane keeping assist.
waremark said:
The only function of lane keeping assist systems which I have experienced is to provide a little resistance to the steering wheel when crossing a lane marking without signalling. It has not done anything to keep the car centred in its lane.
“AUDI ACTIVE LANE ASSISTOperating at speeds from 65 km/h (40.4 mph), Audi active lane assist helps the driver keep the vehicle in the driving lane. A camera...
... the driver sets how early the control intervention should occur. In the case of an early steering intervention point, the system guides the driver towards the middle of the lane by gentle, centering steering interventions. With a late steering intervention point, Audi active lane assist does not intervene until shortly before the detected lane marking might be crossed...”
Nampahc Niloc said:
waremark said:
Incidentally, I don't consider it best practice to keep the car centred in lane.
Please explain your thinking here.We have a new Volvo XC90 at my workplace. (Roads Policing). Adapting to the automatic safety features has been an interesting process... it really, really doesn’t like tactical contact and at other times through safe but high speed runs you get the occasional firm squeeze from the seatbelts...
RE: indicators and AD, I have changed my mind somewhat on this after thinking about it and discussing with colleagues.
Indicating should have a thought process behind it, otherwise it can reflect lazy driving and a mitigation for lack of observation. However, no driver is perfect and an indication could prevent an accident when observation has not been 100%. So, to resolve this apparent conundrum, the driver needs to still think about indication (i.e. not automatically apply in all circumstances) but instead consider "if I indicate is it likely to cause confusion or distraction to other road users instead of clearly signalling my intention?"
Obviously if you are in the middle of a desolate wilderness and there is nobody around, indicating is somewhat silly but not harmful.
Indicating should have a thought process behind it, otherwise it can reflect lazy driving and a mitigation for lack of observation. However, no driver is perfect and an indication could prevent an accident when observation has not been 100%. So, to resolve this apparent conundrum, the driver needs to still think about indication (i.e. not automatically apply in all circumstances) but instead consider "if I indicate is it likely to cause confusion or distraction to other road users instead of clearly signalling my intention?"
Obviously if you are in the middle of a desolate wilderness and there is nobody around, indicating is somewhat silly but not harmful.
Just to add more pain to possible driving in the future the government are considering re writing the highway code again where they will suggest a 1.5 m gap when overtaking cyclists when under 30 mph, and 2m gap when going over 30 mph
The lane assists systems will not like this? allow for it?
The lane assists systems will not like this? allow for it?
Ron240 said:
I have just bought a new Mercedes and it looks like the Active Lane Assist can only be disabled per ignition cycle, the same as Start/Stop.
I had a scary experience with it the other night where my car slammed the brakes on and tried to steer me in a direction I didnt want to go!
I went into the settings and turned it off, but next time i started the engine it was activated again
I have had similar systems with Ford and Honda cars but both could be permanently disabled by the driver.
This is a very bad(and potentially dangerous) implementation of this system by Mercedes.
Or at least bloody annoying!I had a scary experience with it the other night where my car slammed the brakes on and tried to steer me in a direction I didnt want to go!
I went into the settings and turned it off, but next time i started the engine it was activated again
I have had similar systems with Ford and Honda cars but both could be permanently disabled by the driver.
This is a very bad(and potentially dangerous) implementation of this system by Mercedes.
It all sounds like a good reason for me to carry on driving 15 or 20 year old cars. I straddle lines all the time in order to straighten out corners and roundabouts.
DocSteve said:
RE: indicators and AD, I have changed my mind somewhat on this after thinking about it and discussing with colleagues.
Indicating should have a thought process behind it, otherwise it can reflect lazy driving and a mitigation for lack of observation. However, no driver is perfect and an indication could prevent an accident when observation has not been 100%. So, to resolve this apparent conundrum, the driver needs to still think about indication (i.e. not automatically apply in all circumstances) but instead consider "if I indicate is it likely to cause confusion or distraction to other road users instead of clearly signalling my intention?"
Obviously if you are in the middle of a desolate wilderness and there is nobody around, indicating is somewhat silly but not harmful.
Indicating should have a thought process behind it, otherwise it can reflect lazy driving and a mitigation for lack of observation. However, no driver is perfect and an indication could prevent an accident when observation has not been 100%. So, to resolve this apparent conundrum, the driver needs to still think about indication (i.e. not automatically apply in all circumstances) but instead consider "if I indicate is it likely to cause confusion or distraction to other road users instead of clearly signalling my intention?"
Obviously if you are in the middle of a desolate wilderness and there is nobody around, indicating is somewhat silly but not harmful.
Steve, I'm impressed with your open-mindedness, and it's refreshing to see on PH. Sometimes, I reckon we need more open minds on the car side of AD (are bikers more pragmatic?).And I agree with you about this solution to thoughtful indicating: "If I indicate is it likely to cause confusion or distraction to other road users instead of clearly signalling my intention?" However, I wonder if a new revision of Roadcraft will ever reflect this approach ... ?
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