Use of handbrake.
Discussion
Sticks. said:
Now when I learnt, it was very definitely handbrake/neutral, and I understood the reasons why. Has it changed, and if so, why, or is the instructor wrong?
The best way to find out what the instructor is thinking is to get your friend to ask him. When my kids were learning I had a couple of discussions with their instructor - just from the POV of clarifying current thinking in how best to pass the test. What you don't want is the kid to get confused so it's important at this stage to be consistent.
LukeSi said:
Personally if I'm only going to be stopped for a few seconds (eg a give way or stop sign) I'll hold it on the brakes with it in gear and the clutch in. if its a longer stop neutral and handbrake.:
I think it's been mentioned before, but "short stop" - use the handbrake, clutch in and still in gear - means you can get on the gas without the car rolling ready to move. "Long stop" - handbrake, neutral, clutch up - for traffic lights, or wanting to emerge from a junction in heavy traffic, for example.
Sheepshanks said:
The best way to find out what the instructor is thinking is to get your friend to ask him.
When my kids were learning I had a couple of discussions with their instructor - just from the POV of clarifying current thinking in how best to pass the test. What you don't want is the kid to get confused so it's important at this stage to be consistent.
I totally agree. I'll ask her to find out next time I see her. I'll post if anything interesting comes to light. When my kids were learning I had a couple of discussions with their instructor - just from the POV of clarifying current thinking in how best to pass the test. What you don't want is the kid to get confused so it's important at this stage to be consistent.
Thanks all for the input.
I am often the only person in a traffic queue who ever used the handbrake.
I just presumed it was because people were now taught, perhaps with the advent of new tech and flappy paddle autos etc to just sit on the brake, but then I was thinking, surely they did not learn in a car like that?
My Dad always told me to do use it to avoid sitting there warping discs with hot pads, and he was a plod driver so his word meant a lot to me, and I have done it ever since, even in cars with these crap buttons rather than a proper handbrake.
I will never change, but people are monumentally lazy these days.
I just presumed it was because people were now taught, perhaps with the advent of new tech and flappy paddle autos etc to just sit on the brake, but then I was thinking, surely they did not learn in a car like that?
My Dad always told me to do use it to avoid sitting there warping discs with hot pads, and he was a plod driver so his word meant a lot to me, and I have done it ever since, even in cars with these crap buttons rather than a proper handbrake.
I will never change, but people are monumentally lazy these days.
I'm an ADI.
with novice drivers it is easier to get them to apply handbrake, neutral, feet off, (like everyone has been saying above) Then when lights change, select gear, bite, and release H/B
Having them sit on the clutch, in gear, foot on brake will often have them forgetting they are in gear, remove foot from clutch and a lovely jump forward into a stall....then a panic.
My car enjoys "start/stop" so I encourage it as good "eco" practice. The car can only do this in neutral foot off clutch ( and saving me between £5-10 a week in fuel)
This is also good practice at pedestrian crossings, in case they did as above when someone is walking in front of them, or the car behind decided not to slow/stop and rammed them up the chuff, maybe causing the feet to slip, and car moving forward more than it would than if the rear wheels were locked by the handbrake (at least then if the old lady you hit died, you have a defence claiming (My handbrake was applied, gear stick in neutral, there was nothing i could do about it other than knowing the dipstick behind me was going to rear end me, i braced myself, and put on the footbrake so that front wheels were also locked.... and he still hit me that hard i moved forward enough to knock down Mrs Miggins...Your Honour)
Many ADI's moan that their clutches don't last very long, as do full licence holders, maybe it's because they have a poor driving technique, too much use of the clutch, coasting around corners, sitting at lights/junctions with unnecessary use of the clutch, driving with the left foot "resting" on it etc...
My personal car is a Volvo V70, 1999, even with having a caravan for a few years it is still on it's first clutch at 251k. My Mini I teach in is still on it's first clutch at 175k. It has been driven by hundreds of people, some of them doing their best to ruin it, until "educated" how to use it sympathetically. My Mini dealer loves it when I take it to service every 8-9 months as they are impressed how long it has lasted. They use it as an example of how long a clutch can last when they get people go in complaining theirs is knackered after 20 - 30k
I suspect this will become less of an issue as we move more towards hybrid/auto/electric.
But, most people don't read the manual for best use of the car when stationary to cause least wear and tear, and lets face it the garages don't care, they like the work fixing our cars because we are too lazy to drive properly.
These same people are also selfish when sat at lights, at night with their foot on the brake blinding everyone behind them. Before anyone starts, not everyone is as superman as you might be and actually be effected by those lights burning their eyeballs for a couple of minutes.
with novice drivers it is easier to get them to apply handbrake, neutral, feet off, (like everyone has been saying above) Then when lights change, select gear, bite, and release H/B
Having them sit on the clutch, in gear, foot on brake will often have them forgetting they are in gear, remove foot from clutch and a lovely jump forward into a stall....then a panic.
My car enjoys "start/stop" so I encourage it as good "eco" practice. The car can only do this in neutral foot off clutch ( and saving me between £5-10 a week in fuel)
This is also good practice at pedestrian crossings, in case they did as above when someone is walking in front of them, or the car behind decided not to slow/stop and rammed them up the chuff, maybe causing the feet to slip, and car moving forward more than it would than if the rear wheels were locked by the handbrake (at least then if the old lady you hit died, you have a defence claiming (My handbrake was applied, gear stick in neutral, there was nothing i could do about it other than knowing the dipstick behind me was going to rear end me, i braced myself, and put on the footbrake so that front wheels were also locked.... and he still hit me that hard i moved forward enough to knock down Mrs Miggins...Your Honour)
Many ADI's moan that their clutches don't last very long, as do full licence holders, maybe it's because they have a poor driving technique, too much use of the clutch, coasting around corners, sitting at lights/junctions with unnecessary use of the clutch, driving with the left foot "resting" on it etc...
My personal car is a Volvo V70, 1999, even with having a caravan for a few years it is still on it's first clutch at 251k. My Mini I teach in is still on it's first clutch at 175k. It has been driven by hundreds of people, some of them doing their best to ruin it, until "educated" how to use it sympathetically. My Mini dealer loves it when I take it to service every 8-9 months as they are impressed how long it has lasted. They use it as an example of how long a clutch can last when they get people go in complaining theirs is knackered after 20 - 30k
I suspect this will become less of an issue as we move more towards hybrid/auto/electric.
But, most people don't read the manual for best use of the car when stationary to cause least wear and tear, and lets face it the garages don't care, they like the work fixing our cars because we are too lazy to drive properly.
These same people are also selfish when sat at lights, at night with their foot on the brake blinding everyone behind them. Before anyone starts, not everyone is as superman as you might be and actually be effected by those lights burning their eyeballs for a couple of minutes.
Majorslow said:
These same people are also selfish when sat at lights, at night with their foot on the brake blinding everyone behind them. Before anyone starts, not everyone is as superman as you might be and actually be effected by those lights burning their eyeballs for a couple of minutes.
I also don't like those blinding brake lights but many of the responsible drivers are not sitting with their foot on the brake pedal. More and more new cars have an electric parking brake and most of them combine that with automatic brake hold. While that operates the brake lights stay on. Usually applying the parking brake will turn the lights off. There may be some drivers who are too selfish to bother but I suspect many have no idea how it all works.My Mercedes has a "hold " function which keeps the rear lights on, my old beetle, simple, slowdown, clutch in, stop, manual handbrake on, clutch still depressed, 1st gear, lights change, away we go, Mercedes still waiting for the brake to release, and annoying everyone behind with LED lights
I was always told several things by my Dad who drove with plod for decades, one was never sitting with your brakes on, always put it out of gear and the handbrake on in traffic, one was never ride the clutch, so much so in 30 years I have never replaced a clutch on any car I have owned for a long time, and I know several people who have had more than one in 10 years lol!
Another was just using all available space in your lane, you would probably not be amazed how many people don't do this, leading to the classic I have no idea how wide my car is moments when they have feet either side but still think they will hit things.
I am no advanced driver, would never want to be, but the standard I see daily worries me, and I am convinced people are not being trained properly, how else would this trend for sitting in traffic without using a handbrake now be basically ALL drivers?
I also drove with someone years ago who was instructed to always get into high gear, so much so that going up a steep hill once, they were struggling and the car almost stalled, as they refused to change down! I tried so hard not to say anything but in the end had to. unbelievable really. The wear on the clutch alone!! Slipping it to get going out the power curve.
Another was just using all available space in your lane, you would probably not be amazed how many people don't do this, leading to the classic I have no idea how wide my car is moments when they have feet either side but still think they will hit things.
I am no advanced driver, would never want to be, but the standard I see daily worries me, and I am convinced people are not being trained properly, how else would this trend for sitting in traffic without using a handbrake now be basically ALL drivers?
I also drove with someone years ago who was instructed to always get into high gear, so much so that going up a steep hill once, they were struggling and the car almost stalled, as they refused to change down! I tried so hard not to say anything but in the end had to. unbelievable really. The wear on the clutch alone!! Slipping it to get going out the power curve.
I was taught by my instructor (16 years ago) to keep the gear engaged and clutch in.
Judging by how pretty much everyone else I know drives, I think they were taught the same.
Pretty much as soon as I passed my test, my dad made me get out of the habit.
Even though my current car is an automatic, I'll still pop it in neutral if I'm stopped for more than a few seconds. Only reason I'll hold the brakes (regardless of gearbox type) is when I'm stopped on a fast road and there are cars approaching in the distance, to give them a bit of a better indication that I'm stopped in the event that they're perhaps not paying as much attention as they should be.
Judging by how pretty much everyone else I know drives, I think they were taught the same.
Pretty much as soon as I passed my test, my dad made me get out of the habit.
Even though my current car is an automatic, I'll still pop it in neutral if I'm stopped for more than a few seconds. Only reason I'll hold the brakes (regardless of gearbox type) is when I'm stopped on a fast road and there are cars approaching in the distance, to give them a bit of a better indication that I'm stopped in the event that they're perhaps not paying as much attention as they should be.
Reading the foregoing I'm at a loss to learn that more than a few experienced drivers stop at T. lights with gear selected and clutch in for however long it takes to get a favourable T' light change in their favour. It seems that what is hoped for is a fast getaway by avoiding the time it takes to clutch in/select gear/release h'brake while increasing revs and pulling away. Fast take offs stand a good chance of meeting the hot shot crossing on Amber! The sequence of clutch in/gear in/h'brake off takes no more than 2 seconds! I too read the Roadcraft police manual and passed the advanced test and have driven that way for 60 years! I now drive with an Auto g'box but still stop, go to N and engage h'brake. Seems foolproof to me.
I failed my first advanced driving test because at a STOP sign, I didn’t obviously stop and assess the situation, I was very slightly creeping forward millimetres at a time, much like what you’re taught to do at normal junctions, ie not to stop, handbrake on etc... you are trying to keep the flow going.
However I was advised for the next test to make it very obvious that I had seen the STOP sign, and that it would be useful for the examiner to see the handbrake applied, albeit briefly. So I did. And passed.
However in real life driving, never felt the need to unless I’m in a long Queue for lights or roadworks etc. Nowadays in the automatic, Park does the job and is quicker and easier to apply than the handbrake (F30)
However I was advised for the next test to make it very obvious that I had seen the STOP sign, and that it would be useful for the examiner to see the handbrake applied, albeit briefly. So I did. And passed.
However in real life driving, never felt the need to unless I’m in a long Queue for lights or roadworks etc. Nowadays in the automatic, Park does the job and is quicker and easier to apply than the handbrake (F30)
In a manual car, I use the handbrake pretty much every time I stop for any reason. My car is heavy and underpowered and needs a fair bit of throttle to get it moving, and having a foot free to press the accelerator is much more useful than having one stuck on the brake pedal I no longer want.
It doesn't slow you down any getting away at traffic lights, if you're paying attention you should be able to tell when the lights are about to change before they actually do.
A lot of people seem to complain about the handbrake seizing up on those cars, I've never had that problem because of all the exercise it gets.
Then a couple of years ago some Aygo not being driven with any attention went up the back of me at a lolipop scool crossing, taking me by surprise enough my feet came off the pedals. Because I had the handbrake on and wasn't in gear with the clutch in, we didn't lurch forwards into the kids in front. That's only reinforced it in my eyes.
It doesn't slow you down any getting away at traffic lights, if you're paying attention you should be able to tell when the lights are about to change before they actually do.
A lot of people seem to complain about the handbrake seizing up on those cars, I've never had that problem because of all the exercise it gets.
Then a couple of years ago some Aygo not being driven with any attention went up the back of me at a lolipop scool crossing, taking me by surprise enough my feet came off the pedals. Because I had the handbrake on and wasn't in gear with the clutch in, we didn't lurch forwards into the kids in front. That's only reinforced it in my eyes.
Edited by GearKnob on Thursday 25th March 10:45
As an auto driver I Laughing my head off.
Natural is next to drive for a reason. You can if you like select and use the handbrake. Most use the foot brake. Car steadily moves forward until you ready. Same with reverse and hill starts.
Going forward with electronic cars that have no gears , less need for foot brakes let alone electric hand brakes.
Natural is next to drive for a reason. You can if you like select and use the handbrake. Most use the foot brake. Car steadily moves forward until you ready. Same with reverse and hill starts.
Going forward with electronic cars that have no gears , less need for foot brakes let alone electric hand brakes.
ashenfie said:
As an auto driver I Laughing my head off.
We have two cars - one manual, one auto. I apply the handbrake and put both into neutral at lights.
In fact, I'd argue it's easier in the auto - as you say, I just have to knock the lever slightly.
I can't abide people who sit with their brake lights on but, if that really is what youngsters are being taught, it makes sense why it's so prevalent now.
Probably going to be a bit long winded, but I'll have a go, hopefully I'll explain it correctly in typed words.
I teach short stops and long stops, short stops for me, less than 4/5 secs, anything requiring a long stop, handbrake on. If our vehicle is first in the queue at a t junc for example, or 'pole position' then stay in first gear, foot on clutch, hand on handbrake, ready to move. If you're going to be stuck for a while, then also neutral and get timings right to move into any available gaps.
If it's a long stop, for example if TL's are changing to red on approach, again, handbrake on and into neutral, then, if in pole, monitor lights/ other traffic etc to get ready to move on light change (so, engage first gear, just prior to your lights changing if possible) if your second/ third in queue etc then mirrors/ first gear/ hand on handbrake ready to move as you have lots of time. Full mirror checks (and shoulder if required) before moving off in all situations.
Any uphill/ downhill then use handbrake to secure veh, if appropriate, before moving off.
Auto hold, use to come to a stop, then apply handbrake to switch off brake lights if there's a veh behind you, if not, then can just use the auto hold as the brake light can give info to approaching veh's that you're stopped.
The one thing I find very irritating with (many) students is the constant theme of them coming to a stop, putting gear into neutral, THEN applying the handbrake. It bugs me that they won't secure the veh on the handbrake, then put the veh in neutral. And it's a hard habit for some to get out of.
Think that all makes sense???
I teach short stops and long stops, short stops for me, less than 4/5 secs, anything requiring a long stop, handbrake on. If our vehicle is first in the queue at a t junc for example, or 'pole position' then stay in first gear, foot on clutch, hand on handbrake, ready to move. If you're going to be stuck for a while, then also neutral and get timings right to move into any available gaps.
If it's a long stop, for example if TL's are changing to red on approach, again, handbrake on and into neutral, then, if in pole, monitor lights/ other traffic etc to get ready to move on light change (so, engage first gear, just prior to your lights changing if possible) if your second/ third in queue etc then mirrors/ first gear/ hand on handbrake ready to move as you have lots of time. Full mirror checks (and shoulder if required) before moving off in all situations.
Any uphill/ downhill then use handbrake to secure veh, if appropriate, before moving off.
Auto hold, use to come to a stop, then apply handbrake to switch off brake lights if there's a veh behind you, if not, then can just use the auto hold as the brake light can give info to approaching veh's that you're stopped.
The one thing I find very irritating with (many) students is the constant theme of them coming to a stop, putting gear into neutral, THEN applying the handbrake. It bugs me that they won't secure the veh on the handbrake, then put the veh in neutral. And it's a hard habit for some to get out of.
Think that all makes sense???
Pothole said:
Most automatic electric handbrakes illuminate the stupidly bright LED brake lights anyway
A handbrake whether conventional or electronic does not illuminate the brake lights.You must be confusing this with the Hold function that a lot of modern cars have.
I never use the Hold function because I am a considerate driver.
All these driver aids. Bloody annoying.
I have just bought a Dacia Duster, a not very well specced one but it has still surprised me by not only having a plipper to open the doors but it also has stop/start even when you use the handbrake.
I can't see a saving in petrol if I will have to keep replacing the starter motor as it's being used countless times on a journey when formerly it was only used once.
Annoying as I like to be in neutral and with the handbrake on at a stop in case some numpty plows into the back of me.
It also indicates when I should change gear. It's obviously done for economy for if I obey it in a 20mph zone it has the engine labouring along in 5th gear at barely above idle.
Lord knows what it'll do if I touch the ECO button.
Modern cars! Grump grump grump.
I have just bought a Dacia Duster, a not very well specced one but it has still surprised me by not only having a plipper to open the doors but it also has stop/start even when you use the handbrake.
I can't see a saving in petrol if I will have to keep replacing the starter motor as it's being used countless times on a journey when formerly it was only used once.
Annoying as I like to be in neutral and with the handbrake on at a stop in case some numpty plows into the back of me.
It also indicates when I should change gear. It's obviously done for economy for if I obey it in a 20mph zone it has the engine labouring along in 5th gear at barely above idle.
Lord knows what it'll do if I touch the ECO button.
Modern cars! Grump grump grump.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff