Priority on slip roads

Priority on slip roads

Author
Discussion

Pothole

33,261 posts

249 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
rxe said:
This pisses me off as well, but having bought a new car for my mum, and having driven it a bit, I now understand what the problem is - there are a lot of cooking cars that are just too damn slow to accelerate to a safe speed. There is a fairly short slip that I use frequently, in all of my daily drivers, I can easily be at 70 before joining the motorway. In my mum’s Yaris, even If I floor it, I’m only at 50.....
And what about normal length slip roads?

Vipers

29,351 posts

195 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
Pothole said:
rxe said:
This pisses me off as well, but having bought a new car for my mum, and having driven it a bit, I now understand what the problem is - there are a lot of cooking cars that are just too damn slow to accelerate to a safe speed. There is a fairly short slip that I use frequently, in all of my daily drivers, I can easily be at 70 before joining the motorway. In my mum’s Yaris, even If I floor it, I’m only at 50.....
And what about normal length slip roads?
Quite unstandable with short slip roads and some cars, but on the subject of slip roads consider this.

Compare the M74 two lanes to the A90 two lanes, both 70 for cars, M74 has slip roads, A92 & A90, (Esentially the same road) have a few, but loads of T junctions joining the road, cars manage to join it OK, cant be that difficult can it? But I must say the junction near me which joins the dual carriage way A92 the vast majority of vehicles try to move over to L2 if they see vehicles waiting to pull ouf of the junction onto the carriageway.

Regardless of the roads, we have idiot drivers, and intelligent drivers, curtious drivers, and dont give a st fk you drivers.

The ovrerall level of competence these days, if that is the right word, is going down hill, many have no idea to indicate on roundabouts, many cant park to save their lives, and basically piss poor drivers.

Stay safe out there men.

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
Vipers said:
Quite unstandable with short slip roads and some cars, but on the subject of slip roads consider this.

Compare the M74 two lanes to the A90 two lanes, both 70 for cars, M74 has slip roads, A92 & A90, (Esentially the same road) have a few, but loads of T junctions joining the road, cars manage to join it OK, cant be that difficult can it? But I must say the junction near me which joins the dual carriage way A92 the vast majority of vehicles try to move over to L2 if they see vehicles waiting to pull ouf of the junction onto the carriageway.

Regardless of the roads, we have idiot drivers, and intelligent drivers, curtious drivers, and dont give a st fk you drivers.

The ovrerall level of competence these days, if that is the right word, is going down hill, many have no idea to indicate on roundabouts, many cant park to save their lives, and basically piss poor drivers.

Stay safe out there men.
I suspect those T junction have double dotted give way markings to which Rule 172 of the HC applies?

Vipers

29,351 posts

195 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Vipers said:
Quite unstandable with short slip roads and some cars, but on the subject of slip roads consider this.

Compare the M74 two lanes to the A90 two lanes, both 70 for cars, M74 has slip roads, A92 & A90, (Esentially the same road) have a few, but loads of T junctions joining the road, cars manage to join it OK, cant be that difficult can it? But I must say the junction near me which joins the dual carriage way A92 the vast majority of vehicles try to move over to L2 if they see vehicles waiting to pull ouf of the junction onto the carriageway.

Regardless of the roads, we have idiot drivers, and intelligent drivers, curtious drivers, and dont give a st fk you drivers.

The ovrerall level of competence these days, if that is the right word, is going down hill, many have no idea to indicate on roundabouts, many cant park to save their lives, and basically piss poor drivers.

Stay safe out there men.
I suspect those T junction have double dotted give way markings to which Rule 172 of the HC applies?
Indeed they do.

Lily the Pink

3,808 posts

137 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
I join the m25 at j24 often in the morning, its about 1 in 3 that think 30-35 is quite very fast enough thank you, lanes 1 & 2 usually thick with lorries which then brake and close together leaving no merge space for the poor mug behind.
There's your problem. There's all sorts of other stuff to worry about at that time of day. Checking that the kids have got to school (remember those days ?), not spilling that coffee, slapping some make-up on, letting the office know you're running late, ... all sorts of things are more important than thinking about your driving.

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Volvolover said:
The vehicle established in lane 1 should not be expected to observe the vehicle attempting to join on the slip....
Really?!

With regard to the part of my post in which you highlighted you actually seem to be saying that you do not have to offer any consideration to safely allow others to join the carriageway?!
You have cherry picked my post, quote all of it.

Providing you have left the correct gap to the vehicle in front which you should be doing anyway you have no obligation to change your vector to accommodate traffic on the slip road. It’s a basic rule of motoring which only the hard of thinking or petulant pretend not to understand.



_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
You have cherry picked my post, quote all of it.
You're quite correct mate, let me fix that for you.

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
The vehicle established in lane 1 should not be expected to observe the vehicle attempting to join on the slip and the vehicles he may potentially impede in lane 2 simultaneously unless he says ‘go go gadget eyes’.......
I don't know why you want me to re-quote the paragraph in full, the whole thing is actually worse than the part I originally quoted?!

So here is Volvolover saying you should not be expected to use forward and rearward observation unless your have "go go gadget eyes"! I know this is the Advanced Driving section but I'd expect all road users to be able to look ahead and use their mirrors along with a shoulder check before changing position without any difficulty? It's not as if you don't have any warning of an approaching slip road either, there's plenty of time to perform the necessary observations and form a driving plan for the next potential hazard. And he actually has the audacity to refer to me as "hard of thinking or petulant"!

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Volvolover said:
The vehicle established in lane 1 should not be expected to observe the vehicle attempting to join on the slip and the vehicles he may potentially impede in lane 2 simultaneously unless he says ‘go go gadget eyes’.......
I don't know why you want me to re-quote the paragraph in full, the whole thing is actually worse than the part I originally quoted?!

So here is Volvolover saying you should not be expected to use forward and rearward observation unless your have "go go gadget eyes"! I know this is the Advanced Driving section but I'd expect all road users to be able to look ahead and use their mirrors along with a shoulder check before changing position without any difficulty? It's not as if you don't have any warning of an approaching slip road either, there's plenty of time to perform the necessary observations and form a driving plan for the next potential hazard. And he actually has the audacity to refer to me as "hard of thinking or petulant"!
Quote the bit where I say I can’t use forward and rearward observation?


But You missed this bit


The guidance is written for a reason and it’s to minimise risk, the joining vehicle only has one gap to observe the established vehicle has 3 lanes already to observe and react to.





The guidance completely points to the fact the established vehicle doesn’t have to make space for the vehicle attempting to join. To drive in such a manner as to expect any other behaviour is sheer lunacy and dangerous. The vehicle attempting to join cannot possibly assess the safety of expecting the established vehicle to move for them.







_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
should not be expected to observe the vehicle attempting to join on the slip and the vehicles he may potentially impede in lane 2 simultaneously unless he says ‘go go gadget eyes’.......

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook

“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”

monthou

999 posts

17 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook

“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
It's nice if someone on the motorway does that.
It's a good thing.
But it's not a legal requirement.
Or do you think Roadcraft just regurgitates the law?




_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
Quote from DVSA - Safe Driving for Life

When you’re driving towards a junction, it’s important to scan well ahead to make sure that you’re aware of other road users joining or leaving the motorway: you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to keep travelling at a steady speed

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook

“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
It may or may not have escaped your attention it most drivers are not police drivers and have to use the published official guidance such as the road traffic act and the Highway Code

Maybe that helps

I’m not saying what is good practise I’m saying what you are required or not required to do

If you are leaving the correct gap to the vehicle in front, travelling at an appropriate speed for Lane 1 and there is another car joining the motorway there is no need or requirement for the established vehicle to move whatsoever


monthou

999 posts

17 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Quote from DVSA - Safe Driving for Life

When you’re driving towards a junction, it’s important to scan well ahead to make sure that you’re aware of other road users joining or leaving the motorway: you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to keep travelling at a steady speed
There was the perfect opportunity. Why not write:
you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to let people join the motorway safely?
It's almost as if what they wrote was just about maintaining a steady speed.

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Quote from DVSA - Safe Driving for Life

When you’re driving towards a junction, it’s important to scan well ahead to make sure that you’re aware of other road users joining or leaving the motorway: you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to keep travelling at a steady speed
Not legal guidance

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
I think drivers on the main carriageway have a responsibility to allow other vehicles to safely merge
Apart from quoting the part of the HC several times which states you must not drive without reasonable consideration for other road users, where have I stated it's specifically a legal requirement?

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
_Hoppers said:
Quote from DVSA - Safe Driving for Life

When you’re driving towards a junction, it’s important to scan well ahead to make sure that you’re aware of other road users joining or leaving the motorway: you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to keep travelling at a steady speed
There was the perfect opportunity. Why not write:
you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to let people join the motorway safely?
It's almost as if what they wrote was just about maintaining a steady speed.
Totally, it’s as if when you want to maintain a steady speed in L1 and the car in front is slower you need to change lanes or something weird . Odd concept


_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
_Hoppers said:
Quote from DVSA - Safe Driving for Life

When you’re driving towards a junction, it’s important to scan well ahead to make sure that you’re aware of other road users joining or leaving the motorway: you may need to change lanes, if you can do so safely, to keep travelling at a steady speed
Not legal guidance
But it holds more authority than your posts

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
_Hoppers said:
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook

“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
It may or may not have escaped your attention it most drivers are not police drivers and have to use the published official guidance such as the road traffic act and the Highway Code

Maybe that helps

I’m not saying what is good practise I’m saying what you are required or not required to do

If you are leaving the correct gap to the vehicle in front, travelling at an appropriate speed for Lane 1 and there is another car joining the motorway there is no need or requirement for the established vehicle to move whatsoever
The book is publicly available and is used by students training for their IAM and RoSPA test. Don’t forget this is the Advanced Driving section of PH, if it’s beyond you then maybe you should consider not posting here again?