How not to crash my new Tuscan
Discussion
car limits is more about delicate inputs and feeling the car, not drifting. although most people fully 'enjoy' an airfield day.
too many people muscle a car around a corner, whereas you just need to 'introduce' your intentions and then listen to your car through fingers and butt. it's these techniques that can get a TVR through the bends, have you aware of the limits more readily and catch a problem early enough to correct. if you don't go hooning the tyres won't be toooo bad.
CAT are great and really worthwhile. but most of the training is on roads with armco barriers or gravel if you come off the tarmac.
too many people muscle a car around a corner, whereas you just need to 'introduce' your intentions and then listen to your car through fingers and butt. it's these techniques that can get a TVR through the bends, have you aware of the limits more readily and catch a problem early enough to correct. if you don't go hooning the tyres won't be toooo bad.
CAT are great and really worthwhile. but most of the training is on roads with armco barriers or gravel if you come off the tarmac.
T300RS + RFactor 2.
You'll be surprised how much you learn, and how applicable it is to real life. Best coupled with something like a carlimits activity day so you can see how it translates into reality.
A lot will laugh at this suggestion, but it's taught me an intuition that's kept real cars out of real hedges in the past.
You'll be surprised how much you learn, and how applicable it is to real life. Best coupled with something like a carlimits activity day so you can see how it translates into reality.
A lot will laugh at this suggestion, but it's taught me an intuition that's kept real cars out of real hedges in the past.
Nobody had suggested a trackday so it may as well be me. Trackdays are a great way to learn about both yourself as a driver and your car. You do t have to view them as trying to get the best lap time or racing other cars, which you are t allowed to do and neither are you allowed to time your lap actually. There is etiquette that is generally well observed in only overtaking on the straights, always with the consent of the leading car and usually on the left and never into braking zones. They are very safe and I’ve never had any issues with others drivers in the 30mor so trackdays I must have done.
But you’ll be able to do things in track you could never do on the road and in doing so you’ll be safe, learn much more about how your car handles in more extreme situations which means that nothing on the road should ever be close to these situations. You’ll get much more info about weight shifting which is probably the defining characteristic involved with car handling and you’ll have a Damn good time. Just do it.
But you’ll be able to do things in track you could never do on the road and in doing so you’ll be safe, learn much more about how your car handles in more extreme situations which means that nothing on the road should ever be close to these situations. You’ll get much more info about weight shifting which is probably the defining characteristic involved with car handling and you’ll have a Damn good time. Just do it.
Geo, tyres, firstly. TVR have got this awfully sticky rep but once the above was sorted I’ve found them very neutral, pretty tame actually, just with the usual high power / low weight RWD tendencies that will punish the unwary. Because a number of them are garage queens people neglect the above and then find themselves surprised when their TVR bites them. The Tuscan does have a reputation for being particularly pointy at the front end, this doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll throw you at a hedge though.
An own car skid pan day is a great idea, a circuit trackday may be a little daunting (if you don’t push hard enough you won’t learn very much), you really need to be at and above the limit to properly learn the characteristics of the car. An airfield trackday however is the perfect setting, mostly just clean air to catch you if you slip up rather than nasty hurty barriers as with a circuit. I really learnt my Chim inside out at Abingdon, outbraked myself, spun, misjudged things, because I could get away with it all so I was pushing just that little bit over 100%- the perfect environment for it, and I found when I returned to circuits I was far better placed to push on without fear (my first trackday was Castle Combe and I drove like miss daisy and learned nothing because of how scary the barriers looked!)
You’re halfway there by acknowledging the rev matching, this is another key TVR killer by leadfoots on downshift. Get some heel and toe practice in, low revs low speed low jeopardy at first until it becomes second nature- I learnt the craft in my Chim and MX-5 and unknowingly do it when slowing for lights in the works vans now! You’re blessed with a wonderful engine with second to none throttle response in that Tuscan of yours, when the revs yelp as readily as they do in a Speed Six the task becomes much easier, the pedalbox is well suited to it and I’m sure you’ll learn in no time! You’re also blessed with TVR’s traditionally long throttle, which is your very own infinitely adjustable traction control!
You sound very keen on learning the craft, and you’ve got an awesome driving machine on your hands, given time I reckon you and your Tuscan will become a fearsome combination. Respect it, but don’t fear it, mostly enjoy it!
An own car skid pan day is a great idea, a circuit trackday may be a little daunting (if you don’t push hard enough you won’t learn very much), you really need to be at and above the limit to properly learn the characteristics of the car. An airfield trackday however is the perfect setting, mostly just clean air to catch you if you slip up rather than nasty hurty barriers as with a circuit. I really learnt my Chim inside out at Abingdon, outbraked myself, spun, misjudged things, because I could get away with it all so I was pushing just that little bit over 100%- the perfect environment for it, and I found when I returned to circuits I was far better placed to push on without fear (my first trackday was Castle Combe and I drove like miss daisy and learned nothing because of how scary the barriers looked!)
You’re halfway there by acknowledging the rev matching, this is another key TVR killer by leadfoots on downshift. Get some heel and toe practice in, low revs low speed low jeopardy at first until it becomes second nature- I learnt the craft in my Chim and MX-5 and unknowingly do it when slowing for lights in the works vans now! You’re blessed with a wonderful engine with second to none throttle response in that Tuscan of yours, when the revs yelp as readily as they do in a Speed Six the task becomes much easier, the pedalbox is well suited to it and I’m sure you’ll learn in no time! You’re also blessed with TVR’s traditionally long throttle, which is your very own infinitely adjustable traction control!
You sound very keen on learning the craft, and you’ve got an awesome driving machine on your hands, given time I reckon you and your Tuscan will become a fearsome combination. Respect it, but don’t fear it, mostly enjoy it!
akirk said:
I have a feeling that he is somewhere NorthWest, but not certain...
another option is: http://www.high-performance-course.com/ but that may be more structured than you want... but perhaps if a better location you could always talk to the course managers about options...
I very strongly recommend starting either there or with Reg. You will develop how to enjoy the performance without needing limit handling skills. For the limit handling skills I agree with the recommendation of Car Limits - if the business disappears look for the coaches Andy Walsh or Mark Robins. But what you learn from Reg or HPC is far more relevant to enjoying performance with safety on the road.another option is: http://www.high-performance-course.com/ but that may be more structured than you want... but perhaps if a better location you could always talk to the course managers about options...
Neutral throttle if you have any steering lock on at all is a good starter. Drive for understeer in this weather.
A car with a fixed rear axle, is always either under steering, or over steering when the steering wheel is off centre. If you keep this in mind, you should be able to feel the car moving about.
TVRs have lovely long throttle travel, which helps. I would try keeping the revs under 4.5k in the cold, and be careful in a straight line too, as a lot powerful rwd cars end up crashed this time of year.
Do you have a daily driver too?
A car with a fixed rear axle, is always either under steering, or over steering when the steering wheel is off centre. If you keep this in mind, you should be able to feel the car moving about.
TVRs have lovely long throttle travel, which helps. I would try keeping the revs under 4.5k in the cold, and be careful in a straight line too, as a lot powerful rwd cars end up crashed this time of year.
Do you have a daily driver too?
DuncanM said:
Neutral throttle if you have any steering lock on at all is a good starter. Drive for understeer in this weather.
A car with a fixed rear axle, is always either under steering, or over steering when the steering wheel is off centre. If you keep this in mind, you should be able to feel the car moving about.
TVRs have lovely long throttle travel, which helps. I would try keeping the revs under 4.5k in the cold, and be careful in a straight line too, as a lot powerful rwd cars end up crashed this time of year.
Do you have a daily driver too?
Thank you!A car with a fixed rear axle, is always either under steering, or over steering when the steering wheel is off centre. If you keep this in mind, you should be able to feel the car moving about.
TVRs have lovely long throttle travel, which helps. I would try keeping the revs under 4.5k in the cold, and be careful in a straight line too, as a lot powerful rwd cars end up crashed this time of year.
Do you have a daily driver too?
I do have another car (well two but one isn't running!) and don't actually have anywhere i need to drive to (well other than the supermarket once a week) so can only take the Tuscan out when the weather is appropriate.
I've not even driven a Tuscan, but have owned a couple of wedges which were tracked and taken to carlimits several times. Until you get to know your car just be smooth and progressive with your inputs. The wedges could get rather upset by mid bend bumps and undulations, the Tuscan is going to be better, but if you are not familiar with a road don't push it.
Put simply, there will be a lot of effort needed to get the best out of your car, but not crashing it should be quite simple.
Put simply, there will be a lot of effort needed to get the best out of your car, but not crashing it should be quite simple.
PrinceRupert said:
Thank you!
I do have another car (well two but one isn't running!) and don't actually have anywhere i need to drive to (well other than the supermarket once a week) so can only take the Tuscan out when the weather is appropriate.
No worries I do have another car (well two but one isn't running!) and don't actually have anywhere i need to drive to (well other than the supermarket once a week) so can only take the Tuscan out when the weather is appropriate.
I own a Cerbera and a GT86, and I never drive in an oversteery fashion. It holds no interest for me. Losing too much traction/grip on either axle is not good driving on the road. If you concentrate on smooth progress, sweetspot is feeling the car rotate slightly (neutral throttle on corners), you will enjoy the car very much.
Straight line full acceleration needs to be a conscious decision, road conditions, traffic, not to mention licence points!
PrinceRupert said:
Yes, the desire is to learn to drive it quickly (and safely) on the road.
In which case, I’d suggest that on-road instruction is the way to go. Knowing what to do at the limit is one thing, but if you need that on the road then something’s probably gone wrong.The long way round is to read Roadcraft, do an IAM or RoSPA course, and then take further courses to get to the level you want.
Quicker (but still very worthwhile) is a few sessions with a good coach. If you can get to Reg, you’ll certainly enjoy it.
Finally, a single technique for safe and rapid progress: Get your vision, thinking and planning as far up the road as you can, and at the same time get the car slowed and settled earlier before the hazard.
Use the calm space you’ve opened up around the hazard to balance the car, and use your observation to get back on the power as soon and as firmly as appropriate. If you ever feel busy or pressured in a bend, that’s a sign something’s not right.
zzrman said:
HPC is excellent. I don´t know if this has changed but when I did my course with Andy Morrison we spent 1/2 a day (out of 3) at Bruntingthorpe Airfield learning what life was like at the limit. So it may not be all road work. You can but ask.
Currently the course involves a session at North Wealddvenman said:
MorganP104 said:
I think the thing you need to find out is where the limits are with the TVR, and crucially, how the car reacts both on the limit, and just before the limit.
If you get *anywhere* near the handling limits of any car on a public road, then the speeds involved are probably out of all proportion to the view, in which of course you should be able to stop safely on your own side of the road.However, we've all had the odd "moment" on the road, so it would be good for the OP to understand how to catch it, should such a thing happen. Easily done in a Honda Accord with all the driver aids turned on, not so easy in a TVR!
MorganP104 said:
dvenman said:
MorganP104 said:
I think the thing you need to find out is where the limits are with the TVR, and crucially, how the car reacts both on the limit, and just before the limit.
If you get *anywhere* near the handling limits of any car on a public road, then the speeds involved are probably out of all proportion to the view, in which of course you should be able to stop safely on your own side of the road.However, we've all had the odd "moment" on the road, so it would be good for the OP to understand how to catch it, should such a thing happen. Easily done in a Honda Accord with all the driver aids turned on, not so easy in a TVR!
Chrisatronic said:
CarLimits has gone under, I had a day booked in March which is £450 down the drain. Got all the letters from liquidators this week, sad times tbh I do feel sorry for them. Overheads still going and obviously huge disruption to their businesss.
interesting. less than a month ago it was the supercar experiences being closed and driver training remaining. hard to imagine what's changed (well, the devastation is ongoing but we're looking at domestic activity starting up from spring). Sad, though i wonder whether the phoenix will fly and Andy sends you a voucher?CABC said:
Chrisatronic said:
CarLimits has gone under, I had a day booked in March which is £450 down the drain. Got all the letters from liquidators this week, sad times tbh I do feel sorry for them. Overheads still going and obviously huge disruption to their businesss.
interesting. less than a month ago it was the supercar experiences being closed and driver training remaining. hard to imagine what's changed (well, the devastation is ongoing but we're looking at domestic activity starting up from spring). Sad, though i wonder whether the phoenix will fly and Andy sends you a voucher?Chrisatronic said:
CABC said:
Chrisatronic said:
CarLimits has gone under, I had a day booked in March which is £450 down the drain. Got all the letters from liquidators this week, sad times tbh I do feel sorry for them. Overheads still going and obviously huge disruption to their businesss.
interesting. less than a month ago it was the supercar experiences being closed and driver training remaining. hard to imagine what's changed (well, the devastation is ongoing but we're looking at domestic activity starting up from spring). Sad, though i wonder whether the phoenix will fly and Andy sends you a voucher?waremark said:
zzrman said:
HPC is excellent. I don´t know if this has changed but when I did my course with Andy Morrison we spent 1/2 a day (out of 3) at Bruntingthorpe Airfield learning what life was like at the limit. So it may not be all road work. You can but ask.
Currently the course involves a session at North WealdChrisatronic said:
CarLimits has gone under, I had a day booked in March which is £450 down the drain. Got all the letters from liquidators this week, sad times tbh I do feel sorry for them. Overheads still going and obviously huge disruption to their businesss.
Course session at North Weald is still relevant - not with Car Limits.It might be worth keeping an eye on what resolves from the situation, but the High Performance Course is separate from Car Limits... and therefore not affected by the liquidation...
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