Hinting the steering

[ST2]

I’ve heard two different explanations of hinting the steering. One is hinting is taking up the slack, the other is, having taken up the slack, hinting is to give a “wake up “ to the tyre to give a smoother turn into the corner.
Can anyone tell me which is correct please

[carreauchompeur]

This sounds a strange technique.

[Doofus]

What 'slack'?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I heard ( I can't recall who now but I'm guessing it was Jenson Button) someone say it was more about using centrifugal force to put more pressure in the tyre sidewall.

[underwhelmist]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I heard ( I can't recall who now but I'm guessing it was Jenson Button) someone say it was more about using centrifugal force to put more pressure in the tyre sidewall.

Eh?

[carreauchompeur]

The theory about cornering which I use is based on maintaining vehicle stability through consistent speed and steering angle throughout. Any flocking around just tends to destabilise the car IMO...

[Stick Legs]

I used to use a technique similar to this when driving big old worn out cars quickly on B-roads (think Volvo 740 Turbo, BMW E28 528i etc etc).

It felt like you could 'pre-load' the suspension and get the weight transfered slightly before turn in to stop it de-stabalaising the car in the turn.

Probably complete nonsense and billy bullst wheelsmithery in hindsight, which is exactly what 'hinting' sounds like.

Fact, smoothness makes speed.

[underwhelmist]

I still don't know what technique "hinting" the steering is, could somebody explain? It sounds like it might be steering briefly in the opposite direction to the direction you want to turn, like a Scandi flick - is it?

Are you car drivers just jealous because on motorbikes we get to use countersteering?

[Doofus]

underwhelmist said:

I still don't know what technique "hinting" the steering is, could somebody explain? It sounds like it might be steering briefly in the opposite direction to the direction you want to turn, like a Scandi flick - is it?

Are you car drivers just jealous because on motorbikes we get to use countersteering?

No, it's about steering very slightly in the direction you want to steer before steering more in thst same direction. The key thing is to make the two steering movements smooth, almost as if it was just one steering movement. You know, like steering.

[Dashnine]

To my mind ‘hinting’ (although I’ve never heard of the word) is gradually turning the wheel, very slightly at first to introduce the tyre gently to the turn, so that the lateral loads build up slowly, rather than snatching the wheel into the corner and ‘surprising’ the tyre. It’s a circuit / road technique rather than rallying / off road where you might use the Scandinavian Flick to move the weight of the car in a pendulum technique.

I believe it’s something Jackie Stewart used to teach / coach using a tennis ball in a huge bowl mounted on the bonnet of the car.

[underwhelmist]

Doofus said:

No, it's about steering very slightly in the direction you want to steer before steering more in thst same direction. The key thing is to make the two steering movements smooth, almost as if it was just one steering movement. You know, like steering.

Thanks, for the explanation, it does seem like a fine distinction. Maybe it's one of those things we do subconsciously anyway before it's pointed out. Like counter-steering - I was doing that for years (I must have been, I got round corners, mostly) before I read about it and realised what I had been doing. Once you realise what's going on, you can do it intentionally, which makes a big difference to how well you control the machine.

[Toltec]

The tyre and wheel are not a rigid system, obviously, the way it was explained to me was the hint was taking up the initial angle between where the tread of the contact patch was pointing and the wheel when in a turn.

If you think of the contact patch and wheel as two masses connected by a damped spring then there will be an optimal rate of change to get the tread to react as rapidly as possible with minimal oscillations.

The hint then is not a separate movement, but rather beginning the steering movement with an earlier and slower rate of change than you are used to. As mentioned above making a smoother action so the concept of a hint is really a coaching tool to make a driver consider how they enter into a steering movement.

[vonhosen]

Have a read of hairy Don's driving manual, it's a term he uses.

[Bright Halo]

Rob Wilson is someone who promotes this technique
Far too complicated for me
https://www.suspensionsetup.info/blog/does-the-rac...

[CABC]

underwhelmist said:

Thanks, for the explanation, it does seem like a fine distinction. Maybe it's one of those things we do subconsciously anyway before it's pointed out. Like counter-steering - I was doing that for years (I must have been, I got round corners, mostly) before I read about it and realised what I had been doing. Once you realise what's going on, you can do it intentionally, which makes a big difference to how well you control the machine.

i think this is where 4 wheels differs to 2. most coaches use the phrases 'introduce' and 'load up'
applies to braking and throttle as well, when appropriate, at grip limits.
should be one movement to initially transfer load to the outside before committing to full angle required. bikes are different for steering, but probably same for brake & throttle?

[vonhosen]

underwhelmist said:

Thanks, for the explanation, it does seem like a fine distinction. Maybe it's one of those things we do subconsciously anyway before it's pointed out........

Maybe you do, but in my experience that's not the case for most drivers.

[underwhelmist]

CABC said:

i think this is where 4 wheels differs to 2. most coaches use the phrases 'introduce' and 'load up'
applies to braking and throttle as well, when appropriate, at grip limits.
should be one movement to initially transfer load to the outside before committing to full angle required. bikes are different for steering, but probably same for brake & throttle?

Yep, it's best to be very smooth on the brakes and throttle. Modern bikes have ABS, traction control etc which would probably sort out most ham-fistedness, but my bike doesn't.

vonhosen said:

Maybe you do, but in my experience that's not the case for most drivers.

Quite. I'll pay attention to it next time I'm out in the car.

[S. Gonzales Esq.]

When I first read about ‘hinting’ I took it to mean a separate steering input before the main one, but that’s not it at all.

The way I describe it now is a gradual build-up of the steering input on the way into a corner, so that the car responds accurately when you need it to.

By ‘starting to steer’ a certain distance before the corner, you load up all the components of the system from the pads of your fingers to the tyre tread blocks.

At the point where the car actually needs to turn, it should only require minimal further input.

As mentioned above, it works wonders when driving something big, heavy and soft. Combine with more active weight transfer techniques for sharper bends.

[Pebbles167]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

As mentioned above, it works wonders when driving something big, heavy and soft. Combine with more active weight transfer techniques for sharper bends.

Definitely, my last track car was a Peugeot 406 V6, stiffened springs but still fairly wafty. Driving on track would be nothing but understeer if you didn't use this technique.

Also useful in my Fiesta when driving briskly, especially in the wet. I didn't know this was named technique as such, it just feels natural to do this to keep the car balanced.

[Cliftonite]

This is a technique favoured by our own Reg Local?