Thread Crush - Overtake

Thread Crush - Overtake

Author
Discussion

julian64

Original Poster:

13,315 posts

221 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Been on PH for a while. I've read all the recurring threads. One recurring theme is the overtaking threads.

It usually starts with someone posting a video of an overtake. They get shot down in flames as a dangerous driver by the more pious of PH posters, or IAM, or the sleeping police here.

Ultimately after a number of pages it ends with two groups across a divide throwing insults at each other.
On the one side are the :

SPEEDERS

'its okay to break the law while in the middle of an overtake'
'the mumsnet on here probably never overtake'

and on the other side

MUMSNET

'the speeders are hooligans who give all us drivers a bad name'
'its perfectly possible to legally overtake and we do it all the time'

The owners of this website must love these threads because any thread which generates polarity, generates posts. But after years on this website it would be nice to crush one type of thread such that anyone else who posts this type of thread could be referred to a thread like this where they weren't allowed to post duplicates of what has gone on before but had to further the thread with a game of one-upmanship.

How would this work? Well the custard test works for some types of threads so lets see if it'll work here.

We need someone who agrees with the MUMSNET sentiments to post dashcam footage of them overtaking a police car. If mumsnet is right then this should be possible, completely legally, without getting pulled over.

Should someone manage to do this then a similar challenge could be thought of and leveled at the speeders? Although to be honest if a large quantity of dashcam footage turned up showing multiple overtakes of police cars then I would be convinced that is 'thread crush'.

This would continue until the Overtake discussions are eventually decided and therefore crushed, never to appear as anything other than a sticky again

Magnum 475

2,416 posts

99 months

Tuesday 8th June
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I think this has changed over years. When I learned to drive (late 80s), my instructor told me to get the overtake done, then drop back to the speed limit if you've gone over. The instruction now seems to be to overtake without exceeding the speed limit.

Probably explains the difference in attitudes. I prefer the way I was taught - it gets me back onto the correct side of the road in the shortest time and distance. Trouble is that plod doesn't see it that way.

kiseca

9,267 posts

186 months

Tuesday 8th June
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Looks like this thread just got crushed hehe

Glenn63

1,430 posts

51 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Magnum 475 said:
I think this has changed over years. When I learned to drive (late 80s), my instructor told me to get the overtake done, then drop back to the speed limit if you've gone over. The instruction now seems to be to overtake without exceeding the speed limit.

Probably explains the difference in attitudes. I prefer the way I was taught - it gets me back onto the correct side of the road in the shortest time and distance. Trouble is that plod doesn't see it that way.
Not to mention when you wake the person up your overtaking and they accelerate what do they do just stop at the limit and pull back behind?

Oilchange

7,150 posts

227 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Magnum 475 said:
I think this has changed over years. When I learned to drive (late 80s), my instructor told me to get the overtake done, then drop back to the speed limit if you've gone over. The instruction now seems to be to overtake without exceeding the speed limit.

Probably explains the difference in attitudes. I prefer the way I was taught - it gets me back onto the correct side of the road in the shortest time and distance. Trouble is that plod doesn't see it that way.
Too many people doing 45 in a 60, holding lines of traffic up. There often isn't enough road to overtake these muppets without exceeding the limit, especially if you have an idiot that decides that they don't like being overtaken and presses on while you are alongside. Happens a lot.
Get it done then pull in and slow if need be to the limit, is the way I see it.

M4cruiser

2,479 posts

117 months

Tuesday 8th June
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I don't seem to fit into either of your 2 groups, i.e. Speeders vs Mumsnet.

Declaring myself to be an IAM member (of many years standing) usually attracts a few boos to start with, but I may as well declare it. Also I was an IAM observer (but not currently).

Yes, in years gone by, the IAM was ok with speeding during an overtake. But that has disappeared. For many reasons, I think, including the "we keep to the law now", eco-driving, and probably other reasons too, aligned with the comprehension and acceptance of the splitting of Roadcraft into two versions, one for police on an emergency call, and one for the public. Before that, the two versions were blurred, at least unofficially, as the general public sought to provide some support for their style of driving. Speeding during an overtake was one example, another is offsiding, where the police will (can) go onto the wrong side of a two-way road to improve the view ahead, whereas the public can (should) go only up to the white centre line.

Overtaking is a complex manoeuvre, and requires a lot of planning with many inputs. Many people can't do it safely, but get away with it often. The risk vs benefit factor has to be evaluated to see if it's actually worth overtaking at all. For me it's rarely worth it. I can start my journey a few minutes earlier, and not do any overtakes, arriving relaxed. I'd have to drive like crazy to save those few minutes, doing overtakes, using more fuel and wearing out the car more.

I put a spreadsheet together to see how much distance it actually takes to do an overtake, for example in a 60 limit to get past a car doing 40 or 50mph. It's a lot longer than most people think.

Police pursuit drivers receive a huge amount of training to be able to do an overtake safely, and can exceed the limit only when blue lights are on. In theory. Joe public really shouldn't be doing car/car overtakes it on two-way, single-carriageway A roads. It's different on multi-lane roads, and where the speed differential is large (such as overtaking a push-bike). Motorbike/car overtakes are different again.



Tyre Tread

9,673 posts

183 months

Tuesday 8th June
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M4cruiser said:
... Joe public really shouldn't be doing car/car overtakes it on two-way, single-carriageway A roads. It's different on multi-lane roads, and where the speed differential is large (such as overtaking a push-bike). Motorbike/car overtakes are different again.
Really?

Never heard such utter tosh.

"Joe Public"

I was always taught to minimise "TED" (Time Exposed to Danger" - Plan it, execute it and get back into lane safely.

Mind you, in over 40 years of driving and approaching a million miles I have died many, many times as a result of overtaking.

rolleyes

supertouring

2,216 posts

200 months

Tuesday 8th June
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M4cruiser said:
Ilso I was an IAM observer (but not currently).
Did they sack you for posting non-sense online?

Fastdruid

7,173 posts

119 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
julian64 said:
We need someone who agrees with the MUMSNET sentiments to post dashcam footage of them overtaking a police car. If mumsnet is right then this should be possible, completely legally, without getting pulled over.
I've done this. NSL/60 mph limit, police car and a car in front, both doing ~40mph. Double overtook them. Didn't break the speed limit. Didn't get stopped.

No dashcam footage though, sorry.

slipknotted

104 posts

4 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
I doubt you'll crush this type of thread as people will always disagree on something but it would be nice to have overtaking rules/etiquette in black and white.

For what it's worth my opinion on OPs conundrum of what's acceptable when overtaking is that yes in theory you shouldn't break the speed limit when overtaking as it's breaking the law but in the real word speeding when overtaking does reduce the time spent in the opposing lane, especially if you wake the person you're overtaking and they start playing silly buggars and accelerate. I think the main problem comes when you NEED to speed when overtaking to finish the manoeuvre before you run out of vision or space on the road ahead, in which case it would be a dangerous and botched overtake.

In summary; as long as everything else about the overtake is in order e.g. no junctions, good vision ahead, wide enough road, then any speeding, although aiming to reduce time spent in the opposing lane, should be treated completely separately to the overtake as it is effectively gratuitous. That's not to say I don't hit 70 when overtaking in a nsl just to get it over with in case someone comes flying up the road in the opposite direction. But that theoretically you shouldn't need to speed.

Pica-Pica

8,448 posts

51 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Fastdruid said:
julian64 said:
We need someone who agrees with the MUMSNET sentiments to post dashcam footage of them overtaking a police car. If mumsnet is right then this should be possible, completely legally, without getting pulled over.
I've done this. NSL/60 mph limit, police car and a car in front, both doing ~40mph. Double overtook them. Didn't break the speed limit. Didn't get stopped.

No dashcam footage though, sorry.
The same. I have certainly overtaken police cars with no issue. I assume that police are advised to drive at say 65mph on motorways, except when on a chase, or specifically controlling traffic speed.
No dashcam either, I prefer to avoid accidents rather than film them.

M4cruiser

2,479 posts

117 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
supertouring said:
M4cruiser said:
Also I was an IAM observer (but not currently).
Did they sack you for posting non-sense online?
I did hint it would be bold to mention my IAM credentials!
No, I gave up voluntarily so i could post this stuff on line ...
wink

M4cruiser

2,479 posts

117 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Tyre Tread said:
I was always taught to minimise "TED" (Time Exposed to Danger" - Plan it, execute it and get back into lane safely.


rolleyes
Yes, but do you think the average driver is taught that?

ScoobyChris

1,003 posts

169 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
I overtook a lady yesterday who was doing 20 mph in a 40 zone. I didn’t need to break the speed limit or make the car all noisy to safely complete the manoeuvre and my reward, looking in the mirror, was a round of applause.

I was so chuffed and glowing with pride! biggrin

Chris

efcgriswold

76 posts

6 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Get the overtake done safely. If that’s below or above the speed limit then so be it. Drop back ASAP once it’s done.

These days you can’t overtake anyone without them getting pissy about it. They either have no knowledge of how to drive correctly, having only been taught enough to pass a test or they’re dicking around with their mobile.

The worst experiences of overtakes have been when I’ve overtaken someone who has a more expensive/better car than my own…….they really don’t like it.

Zetec-S

4,147 posts

60 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
slipknotted said:
I doubt you'll crush this type of thread as people will always disagree on something but it would be nice to have overtaking rules/etiquette in black and white.
Do not exceed the speed limit while overtaking? wink

In all seriousness, if you want a "black and white" answer, then that is the only answer. Adding any ambiguity around it being acceptable to speed briefly in order to complete the overtake means it becomes open to interpretation. So someone might think nipping up to 65/70ish for a few seconds is fine (in a NSL), but then you'll also get the sort of throbber who uses it to excuse blasting past a line of cars at twice the limit because they are all doing 29 in a 30 zone.

julian64

Original Poster:

13,315 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Yep

I think the thread has been crushed by PISTONHEADs deciding to move it to advanced driving hehe

Obviously the idea of thread crushing is not one that goes down well with a team trying to get the thread count up rather than down.
Gotta think they have a sense of humour though. I did suspect they were going to close the thread, but I guess this works just as well hehe

Shame as I had a few ideas for other endlessly recurrent threads which could be crushed.

I suspect unless the unicorn dashcam video actually turns up showing an overtake of a police car, we have stalled at the first hurdle.

Cheers All smile.

julian64

Original Poster:

13,315 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Pica-Pica said:
Fastdruid said:
julian64 said:
We need someone who agrees with the MUMSNET sentiments to post dashcam footage of them overtaking a police car. If mumsnet is right then this should be possible, completely legally, without getting pulled over.
I've done this. NSL/60 mph limit, police car and a car in front, both doing ~40mph. Double overtook them. Didn't break the speed limit. Didn't get stopped.

No dashcam footage though, sorry.
The same. I have certainly overtaken police cars with no issue. I assume that police are advised to drive at say 65mph on motorways, except when on a chase, or specifically controlling traffic speed.
No dashcam either, I prefer to avoid accidents rather than film them.
You two give me hope, get your dashcams working !!!

ScoobyChris

1,003 posts

169 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
I think it's important to seek co-operation for an overtake as a predictable "target" is much easier to manage. For example, if I move out for a better look and the target speeds up, I know that he's not going to make my life easy.

I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong wink

Chris

Toltec

6,603 posts

190 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
ScoobyChris said:
I think it's important to seek co-operation for an overtake as a predictable "target" is much easier to manage. For example, if I move out for a better look and the target speeds up, I know that he's not going to make my life easy.

I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong wink

Chris
Even with plenty of clear well sighted road there is always the risk that the vehicle you are overtaking will swerve into your path. Then again that is true of any oncoming vehicle on a single carriageway when you are not overtaking.