Thread Crush - Overtake
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
Sure, but the point is you have considered it. As opposed to deciding overtaking isn't essential so you won't bother to look for an opportunity.
I have mulled over this "switching off and deciding its not worth it" this morning and I don't really like it - from an AD perspective anyway.On the one hand it's hard to criticize this mindset because nobody has to overtake, and so in some ways there is no obligation to even get involved in looking for one ( for DVLA licence holders ).
But if a driver is going to shut off, stop looking for opportunity and basically be defeated, then this steps into driving to what you know rather than what you can see territory. It also restricts your vision and spatial awareness, because those two things have to be perfect to execute a safe overtake, so if you are going to start shutting down and not bothering to look, then you are slipping into auto-pilot / comfort mode.
The circumstances on the road are constantly changing, what is not to say that an overtake that initially appears impossible may not open up unexpectedly round the next corner. Being at the ride speed, in the right position and right gear to make use of that requires the driver to be switched on and ready, not making up time having "switched off" a few corners prior. Potentially the difference between a low level AD test pass and a pass with flying colours.
Armchair_Expert said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Sure, but the point is you have considered it. As opposed to deciding overtaking isn't essential so you won't bother to look for an opportunity.
I have mulled over this "switching off and deciding its not worth it" this morning and I don't really like it - from an AD perspective anyway.On the one hand it's hard to criticize this mindset because nobody has to overtake, and so in some ways there is no obligation to even get involved in looking for one ( for DVLA licence holders ).
But if a driver is going to shut off, stop looking for opportunity and basically be defeated, then this steps into driving to what you know rather than what you can see territory. It also restricts your vision and spatial awareness, because those two things have to be perfect to execute a safe overtake, so if you are going to start shutting down and not bothering to look, then you are slipping into auto-pilot / comfort mode.
The circumstances on the road are constantly changing, what is not to say that an overtake that initially appears impossible may not open up unexpectedly round the next corner. Being at the ride speed, in the right position and right gear to make use of that requires the driver to be switched on and ready, not making up time having "switched off" a few corners prior. Potentially the difference between a low level AD test pass and a pass with flying colours.
Foss62 said:
Yes, that was my take on it. Once you start talking about ‘essential’ and ‘need’ it becomes easy to talk yourself out of any manoeuvre that might need a bit of thought/planning/decision making.
Or even out of putting in the effort required to do the thinking observing and planning in the first place.I passed my test in 1988 and I reckon I have performed about 30,000 overtakes on single carriage roads in everything from a bicycle, a van pulling a double axles caravan through to a lightweight British Sportscar and obviously the multitude of diesel Euro boxes. I think I’m pretty damned great at driving and overtaking presents no problem for me. I predominantly overtake to maintain pace, flow and and clear road. I don’t usually bother if the road is clogged up with endless trains of traffic but I’m quite happy nailing a long procession in one go or picking them off one by one. Contrary to most opinions o no this thread overtakes don’t take much planning. Be in a going gear or be prepared to get in a going gear, scan mirrors. Assess traffics general demeanour scan road layout ahead and the usually best to surprise the overtaken so they can’t play silly buggers.Job done.
One point about just nailing the throttle I’d like to comment on. I actually quite often change up or come off the throttle even as I’m passing the car. My overtake is so easy I usually have time to do this so even though I don’t usually indicate as I don’t like to communicate my intentions I also give decent acceleration during the overtake but I’m often not really nailing it. In fact thinking about it even though I can pretty much overtake anywhere I usually try to do most overtakes as I arrive behind a car so that I just drive around them. This actually happens a lot. Thinking about it I probably plan my overtakes Berry much it’s just that this driving is so natural to me it’s akin to talking about how I place one foot in front of another whilst walking
One point about just nailing the throttle I’d like to comment on. I actually quite often change up or come off the throttle even as I’m passing the car. My overtake is so easy I usually have time to do this so even though I don’t usually indicate as I don’t like to communicate my intentions I also give decent acceleration during the overtake but I’m often not really nailing it. In fact thinking about it even though I can pretty much overtake anywhere I usually try to do most overtakes as I arrive behind a car so that I just drive around them. This actually happens a lot. Thinking about it I probably plan my overtakes Berry much it’s just that this driving is so natural to me it’s akin to talking about how I place one foot in front of another whilst walking
julian64 said:
Pica-Pica said:
I don’t think you need a power advantage, just observation and skill.
My best overtake was:
On an A road with a BMW in front and a lorry in-front of that.
As I approached, I kept back. The road bent slightly to the left and was up hill, so keeping back I had a clear view that the distant view was clear for a fair distance. I quickly closed the gap, moved out for the near view as the bend straightened, indicated and went past both. That was in a 1.2 Fabia. A smooth satisfying pass.
(‘psyche’)
I did fully expect to see a number of posts where the perfect overtake happened in a very low power car, and in that I think this was a fine example.My best overtake was:
On an A road with a BMW in front and a lorry in-front of that.
As I approached, I kept back. The road bent slightly to the left and was up hill, so keeping back I had a clear view that the distant view was clear for a fair distance. I quickly closed the gap, moved out for the near view as the bend straightened, indicated and went past both. That was in a 1.2 Fabia. A smooth satisfying pass.
(‘psyche’)
Fiat 126, pulls onto Dual carriage way and is going right at the next round about in about 1/3 mile.
Undertook a Porsche 911 who was braking for said roundabout, and just held on as I went right and out the 4th exit, from entering the roundabout in the left hand lane.
In my defence, once up to speed you don't really want to slow down and I was probably only doing 45 mph when I entered said roundabout. And it only slid a bit. And I didn't need much opposite lock.
And I was younger and immortal at that stage in my life.
And a 911 is basically the same car in concept.
RWD rear engineed air cooled, 2 useless back seats.
Very recently I was driving at 9:20pm along a long straight Roman road which is tree lined on the opposite carriageway. Dusk had arrived and every motor vehicle had their headlamps illuminated (thankfully).
Out of the gloom just a couple of hundred yards ahead, a pair of cyclists appeared approaching in the other direction. They were teenage boys dressed in dark clothing without any illumination. From sighting to passing them took merely a couple of seconds.
I could have been overtaking a slow moving vehicle at this point. Thank goodness I wasn't because the likely outcome does not bear thinking about. Getting cyclists to adopt any/adequate illumination has very low priority with the authorities.
Could an overtaking ban and lower speed limits on single carriageway roads be the answer?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Out of the gloom just a couple of hundred yards ahead, a pair of cyclists appeared approaching in the other direction. They were teenage boys dressed in dark clothing without any illumination. From sighting to passing them took merely a couple of seconds.
I could have been overtaking a slow moving vehicle at this point. Thank goodness I wasn't because the likely outcome does not bear thinking about. Getting cyclists to adopt any/adequate illumination has very low priority with the authorities.
Could an overtaking ban and lower speed limits on single carriageway roads be the answer?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Len Woodman said:
bigothunter said:
Surely banning overtaking on our 'high risk' single carriageway roads must be on the horizon?
Has already been discussed in New South Wales. And increasingly double white line systems are being pained on many long straights.Len Woodman said:
bigothunter said:
Surely banning overtaking on our 'high risk' single carriageway roads must be on the horizon?
Has already been discussed in New South Wales. And increasingly double white line systems are being pained on many long straights.waremark said:
Len Woodman said:
bigothunter said:
Surely banning overtaking on our 'high risk' single carriageway roads must be on the horizon?
Has already been discussed in New South Wales. And increasingly double white line systems are being pained on many long straights.waremark said:
In Sweden, I encountered roads which would be marked as single carriageway in the uk (SCW), where overtaking had been made safe but was allowed for only one direction at a time. These roads were marked as three lane, with the centre lane available to only one direction at a time, and a narrow barrier separating the overtaking lane from the opposite direction traffic. Seemed a sensible approach for wider SCW roads, making overtaking relatively safe.
That's a dual carriageway then.Dr Jekyll said:
waremark said:
In Sweden, I encountered roads which would be marked as single carriageway in the uk (SCW), where overtaking had been made safe but was allowed for only one direction at a time. These roads were marked as three lane, with the centre lane available to only one direction at a time, and a narrow barrier separating the overtaking lane from the opposite direction traffic. Seemed a sensible approach for wider SCW roads, making overtaking relatively safe.
That's a dual carriageway then.Dr Jekyll said:
waremark said:
In Sweden, I encountered roads which would be marked as single carriageway in the uk (SCW), where overtaking had been made safe but was allowed for only one direction at a time. These roads were marked as three lane, with the centre lane available to only one direction at a time, and a narrow barrier separating the overtaking lane from the opposite direction traffic. Seemed a sensible approach for wider SCW roads, making overtaking relatively safe.
That's a dual carriageway then.waremark said:
It's the width of a SCW, it looks like a SCW except for a low chain fence, I think it has a lower speed limit than a DCW.
bigothunter said:
Could an overtaking ban and lower speed limits on single carriageway roads be the answer?
My comment was 'tongue in cheek' but seems these restrictions are being implemented already 
waremark said:
The average driver is not taught to overtake! But about TED - people sometimes think the TED is time on the other side of the road. You can be exposed to danger before you cross to the other side of the road, and you can be quite safe on the other side of the road. A good overtaker does not expose themselves to danger!
....noTED 
Pit Pony said:
waremark said:
Len Woodman said:
bigothunter said:
Surely banning overtaking on our 'high risk' single carriageway roads must be on the horizon?
Has already been discussed in New South Wales. And increasingly double white line systems are being pained on many long straights.https://www.google.com/maps/@53.678757,-2.8172088,...
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