Allowing for pedestrians/cyclists on country lanes
Discussion
The Highway Code for pedestrians, Rule 2:
[i]If there is no pavement, keep to the right-hand side of the road so that you can see oncoming traffic. You should take extra care and
be prepared to walk in single file, especially on narrow roads or in poor light
keep close to the side of the road.
It may be safer to cross the road well before a sharp right-hand bend so that oncoming traffic has a better chance of seeing you. Cross back after the bend.[/i]
On a narrow lane with vision obstructed by hedges there is often the possibility that an oncoming pedestrian or a cyclist is close to the nearside verge and difficult to see until the last second. Conversely driving a car down the middle of the road puts you in conflict with oncoming traffic that has a much higher closing speed. The number of pedestrians/cyclists is far lower than the number of oncoming vehicles including wide agricultural vehicles.
I know the outcome of taking out a pedestrian/cyclist would not go well. Therefore the middle of the road seems to be the only option, but it doesn't feel right.
Bit of a ramble, and I've probably answered my own question, but any other observations?
[i]If there is no pavement, keep to the right-hand side of the road so that you can see oncoming traffic. You should take extra care and
be prepared to walk in single file, especially on narrow roads or in poor light
keep close to the side of the road.
It may be safer to cross the road well before a sharp right-hand bend so that oncoming traffic has a better chance of seeing you. Cross back after the bend.[/i]
On a narrow lane with vision obstructed by hedges there is often the possibility that an oncoming pedestrian or a cyclist is close to the nearside verge and difficult to see until the last second. Conversely driving a car down the middle of the road puts you in conflict with oncoming traffic that has a much higher closing speed. The number of pedestrians/cyclists is far lower than the number of oncoming vehicles including wide agricultural vehicles.
I know the outcome of taking out a pedestrian/cyclist would not go well. Therefore the middle of the road seems to be the only option, but it doesn't feel right.
Bit of a ramble, and I've probably answered my own question, but any other observations?
CheesecakeRunner said:
Slow down.
I don't think anyone drives that slowly. A pedestrian in the left hand verge becomes visible at a distance of say 5 m (probably less in reality). The Highway Code would calculate a speed of about 10 mph for that stopping distance. On an NSL the chance of being rear-ended would increase significantly. But I agree that you're right.speedking31 said:
don't think anyone drives that slowly. A pedestrian in the left hand verge becomes visible at a distance of say 5 m (probably less in reality). The Highway Code would calculate a speed of about 10 mph for that stopping distance. On an NSL the chance of being rear-ended would increase significantly. But I agree that you're right.
You move out to the middle to give yourself extended visibility though, while your view of the very left of the verge may still be restricted your view further out is better. By moving out you are not in the path of a pedestrian on or near the verge and the distance you can see for coming to a stop for an oncoming vehicle is much greater. At worst you only need to slow to 10mph etc. when you cannot allow spacing from the verge because the road is too narrow or there is oncoming traffic an you have to move left to pass it.If someone or something, e.g. a deer, leaps out from the hedge you will probably hit them/it, if someone comes the other way too fast and the road is simply too narrow to fit both of you they will hit you. Certain things you have no control over other than the energy your vehicle puts into the collision.
The thing you really need to avoid is having to swerve to the left to avoid an oncoming vehicle and then finding there is a pedestrian/cyclist/horse you couldn't see.
Works the other way too. If you approach a right hander and there are pedestrians on the right on your side of the bend be prepared for someone to come around the corner too fast and swerve towards you.
speedking31 said:
don't think anyone drives that slowly. A pedestrian in the left hand verge becomes visible at a distance of say 5 m (probably less in reality). The Highway Code would calculate a speed of about 10 mph for that stopping distance. On an NSL the chance of being rear-ended would increase significantly. But I agree that you're right.
Given that anything near NSL on a single track where we're talking about bends hiding pedestrians is a little quick for my taste, you can control anyone behind likely to rear-end you by managing your own speed and making your vehicle's movements more predictable.David-p5d5m said:
You need to drive at a speed where you have adequate reaction time and stopping distance for any hazards that appear.
Surely that's a basic skill driving.
Absolutely. But I think my brain is tuned to the hazard being another vehicle or fallen tree. A brick in the verge is a hazard but far more difficult to spot. On an NSL without a footpath and minimal pedestrian traffic one should still be prepared. The discussion has helped me to refocus.Surely that's a basic skill driving.
speedking31 said:
But I think my brain is tuned to the hazard being another vehicle or fallen tree.
<reaches left for the copy of RoadCraft (the most recent one on the desk, not the others which are still on the shelf...)P47 - A hazard is *anything* (my emphasis) which is an actual or potential danger.
So tuning the brain to understand what's a normal part of a road (tarmac, kerbs, hedges etc) then finding abnormal / not quite right stuff means I pick up a lot more hazards. Some which need planning around and others which can after a moment's reflection be ignored. For instance - the flashing orange light on top of a farm vehicle showing over the top of a hedge in the distance shouldn't be there, so I'll add it into my thinking
Castrol for a knave said:
See it a lot.
On my bike and some throbber comes round the corner too fast, blasts the horn and somehow it is my fault.
They are blind to the fact that at their speed, if I was in my Defender I would be wearing them as a bonnet mascot.
Yup.On my bike and some throbber comes round the corner too fast, blasts the horn and somehow it is my fault.
They are blind to the fact that at their speed, if I was in my Defender I would be wearing them as a bonnet mascot.
Get it all the time. often when the "I didn't see you" excuse wouldn't wash anyway. Last ride out there were three memorables. One was two cars coming toward me in the narrow single-track section of a road. So obviously I'm going to delay my entry into said narrow section until they are fully through it. No issue there. Then I enter the narrow bit, and before I reach the other end some soppy girl in a Tesla turns right off a main road into the road I'm on and simply drives straight AT me. I stop, she stops and I ask "are you for real?" only to get some uninteligible abuse through her closed windows. My fault, clearly.
Second was a Transit van behind me. My mistake really for trying to cycle considerately. Because that just opened the door for this throbber to act like an arse. He overtakes me and then almost immediately swings the van left, then out to the right, stopping diagonally over the whole width of the road. Then I have to dive for the offside verge in order to avoid Mr ickhead reversing into a roadside parking space. Again clearly my fault because I should have mind-read their intention to overtake me and then park up thirty feet later. Lesson learned. Next time I'll move away from the nearside carriageway edge so that they'll a) be able to clearly see me in front of them and b) be forced to at least consider my presence before pulluing a s
tty trick like that. I'll bet my mortgage AND my pension that he wouldn't have done that to another driver no matter how slowly they were going. Third was the funniest/most dangerous. Courier van bombing along behind me decides he wants to overtake on a blind right-hander. Trees and hedges taller than the roof of his hi-cube van, and barely more than one lane around the bend. But i've learned from the Transit incident and there's no room for him to pass around the bend. I move nearside when things widen after the bend and so he's passing me while leant hard on the horn. Then I find myself getting 'brake-checked'. Which, if Bozo genuinely WAS in a hurry, he wouldn't have delayed himself by doing. Anyway, he's soon off up the road like a scalded cat. Then I hear the horn again and as I round the next bend there's some white-haired woman in a little car, changing gear AND steering (not both at the same time, though) with her left hand while holding a large smartphone to her left ear with her right hand. Bozo the Courier must have only just avoided her, and to be honest if they'd hit each other they'd BOTH have deserved it.
As for me as a cyclist? Advanced driving practitioners will be pleased to know that I move about in the road quite a lot on quiet, narrow rural roads. Mainly based on whichever side of the lane/carriageway offers me the "longest look" around the next bend, and on the road position that affords oncoming (and following, for that matter) drivers the earliest opportunity to see me. I also frequently take a fully offside approach to a left hand bend in order that physics aids me in getting around the bend. Which has the useful side-effect of offering me a better view into the bend too. No thanks necessary. All I ask in return is that Muppets keep their opinions to themselves when they are overcome with the desire to shout "move left" or other less family friendly comments. If I'm riding on a piece of road it's MY road just as surely as if I were driving an articulated lorry on it.. You may wait your turn and use it when I have finished with it, or if it's wide enough use another bit to get ahead of me. But be assured, it's not MY job to adjust my road position to take account of YOUR shortcomings as a driver.
Apart from pedestrians and cylcists and bends, there seems to a category of driver who not only lacks any anticipation, but is simply blind to oncoming vehicles on narrow roads. Strangely, a lot of them drive SUVs. They don't seem to appreciate that when their car is wider than half the total width of the tarmac it's a good idea for them to slow down to a crawl rather than accelerate towards the unfortunate coming the other way.
Peter3442 said:
Apart from pedestrians and cylcists and bends, there seems to a category of driver who not only lacks any anticipation, but is simply blind to oncoming vehicles on narrow roads. Strangely, a lot of them drive SUVs. They don't seem to appreciate that when their car is wider than half the total width of the tarmac it's a good idea for them to slow down to a crawl rather than accelerate towards the unfortunate coming the other way.
Having given way to about three pushy SUVs in a row today, I was moved to speculate on what happens when drivers like that people like themselves. OverSteery said:
DaveH23 said:
Drive at a Speed where you can stop if needed in the distance you can see.
and when the road is single track, you need to half this distance, as the oncoming vehicle will also need space to stop.However technically you need to consider how to deal with meeting someone coming the other way driving at the maximum possible speed it's possible to drive down that road without falling off into the ditch, ie they can't stop in the distance they can see to be clear. If you do that then the OP's question of cyclists and pedestrians resolves itself because you're going so steadily.
It's difficult to do, and to be completely honest the only time it's happened to me, sort of, there was no contact, but although I was stopped tucked partly into the hedge the only way the prick avoided contact was by burying his car into hedge on the other side. Rather rudely, and very bad form, but after checking he was OK, left him to extract it on his own. Dick.
Look into Limit Point Analysis: https://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php/articles/...
Done correctly, this will enable you to stop in the distance you can see is clear.
It's a case of slowing down appropriately for blind bends and then speeding up when the way you can see it's clear.
Done correctly, this will enable you to stop in the distance you can see is clear.
It's a case of slowing down appropriately for blind bends and then speeding up when the way you can see it's clear.
I cycle down tight windy country lanes every day. There are very few cars and very few issues to be fair. The issue i see most often is not looking far enough ahead. You often see cars panic and slam on the brakes when they finally see you at about 30 yards away. I have seen them for ages before they panic. Most driver cause no trouble at all, but then I will move over or stop and let them past where possible.
ARHarh said:
I cycle down tight windy country lanes every day. There are very few cars and very few issues to be fair. The issue i see most often is not looking far enough ahead. You often see cars panic and slam on the brakes when they finally see you at about 30 yards away. I have seen them for ages before they panic. Most driver cause no trouble at all, but then I will move over or stop and let them past where possible.
These inattentive people are easily spotted if you are behind them by the panic braking as they suddenly notice each potential hazard when they get with a few yards of it, long after you have seen the hazard and reacted by just taking your foot of the accelerator, or deciding that it is not necessary to slow at all.It's frightening how many drivers like this there seem to be, totally unaware of what's in front of them.
It also has the side effect of meaning that they effectively have no brake lights, as the following traffic gets used to them flashing on and off with no actual braking so is likely to be slower to react if actual heavy braking occurs.
I think driving on single-track lanes is the one road type where prior knowledge is most beneficial.
If I'm driving down a single lane for the first time and don't know the passing places I don't find it at all enjoyable.
So I like to give the over cautious the benefit of the doubt.
I recall being sat navved down a narrow lane near Ilminster in Somerset in a thunderstorm, and my partner saying to me "when did you last see a passing place?".
Thankfully we didn't meet anyone!
If I'm driving down a single lane for the first time and don't know the passing places I don't find it at all enjoyable.
So I like to give the over cautious the benefit of the doubt.
I recall being sat navved down a narrow lane near Ilminster in Somerset in a thunderstorm, and my partner saying to me "when did you last see a passing place?".
Thankfully we didn't meet anyone!
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