2 fault collisions in 3 years - advanced driving course?

[Shiv_P]

Hi all

I have been st enough today to have my second fault collision in 3 years. Both were on NSL country lanes and basically due to a lack of observation, first I pulled out on a van and today I hit a narrow bridge wall and rolled into a ditch.

It's stupid and clearly need some further tuition to action this problem. Can anyone recommend any advanced driving course etc that will help enhance my awareness on these types of roads?

Thanks

[Tommie38]

Shiv_P said:

Hi all

I have been st enough today to have my second fault collision in 3 years. Both were on NSL country lanes and basically due to a lack of observation, first I pulled out on a van and today I hit a narrow bridge wall and rolled into a ditch.

It's stupid and clearly need some further tuition to action this problem. Can anyone recommend any advanced driving course etc that will help enhance my awareness on these types of roads?

Thanks

Sorry to hear that Shiv

I hope you don’t mind me saying, but the things that you are describing don’t sound like advanced driving but more foundational driving.

Perhaps do some lessons with a learner instructor as a refresher?

The following may not be relevant at all to you, and feel free to ignore it… but if you are making foundational mistakes could something else be the matter? Sleep, concentration, just come off smoking, anything on your mind? No need to answer, just to put some ideas to you.

When I look back on the accidents that I have had over the course of the last 20+ years, they have always been concentration as a result of lack of sleep. I had two in the space of 3 months. None for the next 10 years so luck was probably part of it.

[Shiv_P]

Tommie38 said:

Sorry to hear that Shiv

I hope you don’t mind me saying, but the things that you are describing don’t sound like advanced driving but more foundational driving.

Perhaps do some lessons with a learner instructor as a refresher?

The following may not be relevant at all to you, and feel free to ignore it… but if you are making foundational mistakes could something else be the matter? Sleep, concentration, just come off smoking, anything on your mind? No need to answer, just to put some ideas to you.

When I look back on the accidents that I have had over the course of the last 20+ years, they have always been concentration as a result of lack of sleep. I had two in the space of 3 months. None for the next 10 years so luck was probably part of it.

Hi

What you have said makes sense and yes I guess foundational mistakes rather than something that would be solved with advanced driving tuition. The other factor in both accidents were driving/looking into direct sunlight, so I'll get an eye test booked as well as some booster lessons

Thanks

[2Btoo]

Nothing much to add other than bravo for seeing that there is a problem and looking to do something about it.

Well done. If only everyone was as sensible.

[Pica-Pica]

2Btoo said:

Nothing much to add other than bravo for seeing that there is a problem and looking to do something about it.

Well done. If only everyone was as sensible.

Ditto: I think OP should take some refresher courses. There is a basic failure in observation here it seems, that and failure to judge the object vehicles path or speed both the two biggest causes of road collisions).
Again, it is a failure to observe and take in correctly what is seen, or impatience in disregarding what has been seen. Try some lessons with an instructor on observing and identifying potential hazards. When driving try talking through the hazards to yourself. If you do that you will find there are far more hazards to describe than you can manage to say!

[Sheepshanks]

Shiv_P said:

Hi all

I have been st enough today to have my second fault collision in 3 years. Both were on NSL country lanes and basically due to a lack of observation, first I pulled out on a van and today I hit a narrow bridge wall and rolled into a ditch.

It's stupid and clearly need some further tuition to action this problem. Can anyone recommend any advanced driving course etc that will help enhance my awareness on these types of roads?

Thanks

A primary safety thing would be to avoid those types of roads! I absolutely hate driving on them. .

Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 10th September 16:19

[jdizz]

2Btoo said:

Nothing much to add other than bravo for seeing that there is a problem and looking to do something about it.

Well done. If only everyone was as sensible.

Very much this!

[talksthetorque]

I'd say that the driving test type lessons are more about how to pass the test and quite prescriptive about when to look, more advanced driving tuition is generally geared to observation, rather than car control.
Well done OP for realising there is a problem, working out what it is and setting out to do something about it.
I'd advise speaking to some instructors who are also advanced trained and booking up some lessons with him.

( or turn your phone off if that's what was causing the lack of observation )

[SuperNads]

Surely this is just a case of needing to pay more attention rather than being taught anything? No one can teach you not to hit things - you just need to slow down and be sure before you make decisions.

[johnao]

talksthetorque said:

I'd say that the driving test type lessons are more about how to pass the test and quite prescriptive about when to look, more advanced driving tuition is generally geared to observation, rather than car control.
Well done OP for realising there is a problem, working out what it is and setting out to do something about it.

I totally agree with this. I don't think basic driving test type tuition would be helpful. it's just going to go over everything you've already been taught - and that's always going to be boring.

I would sign up for an advanced driving course with either RoSPA (their advanced driving section is RoADAR, I think) or IAMRoadsmart.

These two courses are almost identical. Choose whichever is nearest and most convenient. Both courses will focus on concentration, observation, using information, and dealing with hazards in a safe and efficient manner.

You've already decided you need some help and guidance. That's a huge step forward. In educational terms it's known as conscious incompetence (I know I'm doing it wrong and I want someone to help me sort it out), and it takes a certain degree of confidence and courage to arrive at such a decision. It's a step that 98% of other drivers, those who remain in a state of unconscious incompetence, seem unable to take. The advanced driving organisations are geared up to help drivers who want to be helped. It's always refreshing to get an IAM or RoSPA candidate who says... I know I need to improve my driving. The cost of these courses are minimal compared with cost of running a car. So sign up as soon as possible.

Well done for having the courage to start this post.

[CoreyDog]

I'll echo what has been said, well done for admitting your driving is falling short and wanting to address that, I wish everyone had that mentality.

You are aware of what the issue is so now you need to figure out why it's happening. Could be many reasons, the most common is complacency, if you drive the same route day in, day out, any changes can catch you unaware.

An advanced driving course would help, you'll be taught different techniques of observation and hazard perception.

Both the IAM and RoSPA courses are mainly the same and use Roadcraft as a manual. Roadcraft is the Police drivers handbook, worth getting a copy and having a skim before starting any course, will pick up some handy hints and tips from that alone.

Good luck.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Good effort for holding your hands up op.

IAM or ROSPA would be the answer, observation is a big part of it.

Also, would sunglasses help with the sun glare?

[Shiv_P]

Bloody hell, didn't realise I'd get so much praise for crashing

I'll look into iam or rospa thanks.
I was wearing sunglasses, but I don't know these things happen in a bit of a flash really

Thanks all any further advise is appreciated

[Haltamer]

Shiv_P said:

I was wearing sunglasses, but I don't know these things happen in a bit of a flash really

Were they polarised? - Very helpful with glare in my experience; I practically wouldn't bother going out on a bright day without them at this point.

As for happening in a bit of a flash - It may be worth having a long consider of all the contributory factors that led up to the event, considering both long term and immediate effects as another poster mentioned above:-
Were you very familiar with the route? (Complacent)
Any emotional / human factors; Out with the intent of driving at 10/10ths?
Was the car 100% - Suspension, tyres all checked and ready?


As the accident investigation documentaries often say, an accident is a chain of critical events leading to a failure - I'd imagine you could think of several contributing factors that added up to the (disasterous) outcome.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Just to be sure you could get your eyes tested. Good luck with sorting this out.

[Shiv_P]

Haltamer said:

Were they polarised? - Very helpful with glare in my experience; I practically wouldn't bother going out on a bright day without them at this point.

As for happening in a bit of a flash - It may be worth having a long consider of all the contributory factors that led up to the event, considering both long term and immediate effects as another poster mentioned above:-
Were you very familiar with the route? (Complacent)
Any emotional / human factors; Out with the intent of driving at 10/10ths?
Was the car 100% - Suspension, tyres all checked and ready?


As the accident investigation documentaries often say, an accident is a chain of critical events leading to a failure - I'd imagine you could think of several contributing factors that added up to the (disasterous) outcome.

They were polarised, yes. Brand new road to me on my commute as there was traffic on my usual route, so there is the exact root cause of the problem. Just commute so no intention of driving fast

[akirk]

A van can be surprisingly easy to miss as it is moving - a bridge wall is more challenging to miss - to hit that and roll into a ditch is quite a serious accident… I am going to make an assumption that you were driving too fast - not necessarily above the speed limit but too fast for the conditions / your ability to see into the sun / your general ability / etc. So step 1 is slow down - it also gives you more time for observation…

Secondly (which may or may not have helped today) you want to look further ahead in order to maximise observation - a lot of drivers look only close to their car and there only have time to react, whereas you want time to plan… The simplest way to do this is to raise your eyes - look through the upper half of the windscreen for instant improved observation…

You can also start to consciously talk yourself through the scene - I know it sounds mad but pretend that you are talking in a load of fighter jets to take out the countryside - you need to tell them where to aim - tractor at 11 on a side road coming towards me, check for hostiles over the bridge and in that farmyard start to read the whole landscape…

And going slower will help you learn to do that

[Shiv_P]

akirk said:

A van can be surprisingly easy to miss as it is moving - a bridge wall is more challenging to miss - to hit that and roll into a ditch is quite a serious accident… I am going to make an assumption that you were driving too fast - not necessarily above the speed limit but too fast for the conditions / your ability to see into the sun / your general ability / etc. So step 1 is slow down - it also gives you more time for observation…

Secondly (which may or may not have helped today) you want to look further ahead in order to maximise observation - a lot of drivers look only close to their car and there only have time to react, whereas you want time to plan… The simplest way to do this is to raise your eyes - look through the upper half of the windscreen for instant improved observation…

You can also start to consciously talk yourself through the scene - I know it sounds mad but pretend that you are talking in a load of fighter jets to take out the countryside - you need to tell them where to aim - tractor at 11 on a side road coming towards me, check for hostiles over the bridge and in that farmyard start to read the whole landscape…

And going slower will help you learn to do that

Sorry, I should clarify the car didn't actually roll over. I hit/scraped the bridge (the bridge is one car wide, the road is 2 cars wide), and that pushed me off to the right side where the car drove into the ditch. I was probably doing 25-30mph (which is probably still too quick for that part of the road) at point of impact, but the car is repairable and being repaired through insurance
However totally agree, I wasn't driving to the road conditions at that point but primarily because I didn't see/bother to see what was coming up further down the road

[Pica-Pica]

Shiv_P said:

Sorry, I should clarify the car didn't actually roll over. I hit/scraped the bridge (the bridge is one car wide, the road is 2 cars wide), and that pushed me off to the right side where the car drove into the ditch. I was probably doing 25-30mph (which is probably still too quick for that part of the road) at point of impact, but the car is repairable and being repaired through insurance
However totally agree, I wasn't driving to the road conditions at that point but primarily because I didn't see/bother to see what was coming up further down the road

You need to be able to scan as you drive. Far ahead and back close to, and side to side, as well as checking the rear mirror(s) - constantly.

[ian in lancs]

I signed up for an IAM course after loosing control and crashing a sports car. I ended up being asked to train as an observer (instructor) which I did for many years.

Folk do IAM/ROSPA for many reasons but your story isn't that unusual and your instructors will work with you. Having an associate (trainee) that wants to improve and already accepts no one is perfect is a great help. Self appointed driving gods are more effort!

Sign up, start a course and adopt/practice will transform your driving. Ive yet to find a driver that can't improve; me included!