People who accelerate to block overtake

[Veryoldbear]

I live in Occupied North Berkshire, the natural home of the 40mph driver. What is it with 40mph? Is there some basic thing in the psyche that seems to consider that 40mph is the right speed for all eventualities?

[Tommo87]

DocSteve said:

DJP said:

I had this knobbery the other day.

30 limit, I'm on main road. Dick Face pulls out from a side street pretty much right in front of me (yes, I was anticipating it - hence no crash) and then proceeds to drive along at 20mph, in a 30.

So after about half a mile of this I overtake him, deliberately not exceeding 30 in the process, and the C U Next Tuesday flashes me.

So of course I gave him a wave and, since he was limiting his speed, I limited the number of fingers I used.

Fair is, after all, fair.

Overtaking in a 30mph limit even if the subject vehicle is only doing 20mph is likely to be dangerous. Additionally you abused the other driver which is unnecessary and increases the risk of road rage and/or distraction from the task in hand i.e. driving.

Without knowing the 30 limit road it's hard to say how dangerous it was but generally there will be lots of junctions, driveways, pedestrians etc and they won't be expecting a vehicle to be travelling on the other side of the road. Your phrase "deliberately not exceeding 30mph" suggests your driving plan with regard to the overtake was not well thought out and based on some sort of retribution.

You may flame me for my comments but based on yours, you need a lesson and I'm dishing it out. Nothing personal.

I cannot see a problem in overtaking a 20mph vehicle at less than 30mph if there aren’t any hazards like the ones that you yourself actually added to his story.

Unlike yourself, I DO see a problem with people pulling out of side roads into the path of other vehicles already on the carriageway. That IS dangerous, as they often cause multiple vehicles to brake heavily.

[Tommo87]

CoolHands said:

dimots said:

I don’t see any point in overtaking someone travelling at 20 in a 30. Surely the risk/reward ratio makes it not worth doing?

I do sometimes depending on the road etc. some people are s and can hold you up for the next mile, through traffic lights etc. I bin em off and then they don’t aggravate me. Eg a 30 becomes a 40 further up and you just know this wker is going to frustrate you at 25 along there.

They could be drunk, have poor eye sight, looking at their phone, looking at house numbers, or just plain inept in their visual awareness.

I once had one stop, and reverse into my my now stationary car, because he had just passed the side road he was looking for. If he had looked in his mirrors at some point in the previous two minutes, he would have seen myself and two other cars following him.

The best approach is to distance yourself from people like that as soon as possible, either by overtaking safely, taking a different route, or pulling over and waiting a minute.

[Skellum]

DocSteve said:

Overtaking in a 30mph limit even if the subject vehicle is only doing 20mph is likely to be dangerous. Additionally you abused the other driver which is unnecessary and increases the risk of road rage and/or distraction from the task in hand i.e. driving.

Without knowing the 30 limit road it's hard to say how dangerous it was but generally there will be lots of junctions, driveways, pedestrians etc and they won't be expecting a vehicle to be travelling on the other side of the road. Your phrase "deliberately not exceeding 30mph" suggests your driving plan with regard to the overtake was not well thought out and based on some sort of retribution.

You may flame me for my comments but based on yours, you need a lesson and I'm dishing it out. Nothing personal.

This is now a 30 limit.
Sheep behind a fence on one side, and everybody on the other side is pre-deceased, so quite unlikely to jump out in front of you.
https://www.google.com/maps/@58.2075098,-6.3598822...

[carreauchompeur]

This chap would definitely block an overtake. Perfectly safe, only ever planned to overtake the first car and plenty of room. Oncoming Merc flashing, beeping, wker signs…

Edited by carreauchompeur on Tuesday 11th January 11:36

[waremark]

carreauchompeur said:

This chap would definitely block an overtake. Perfectly safe, only ever planned to overtake the first car and plenty of room. Oncoming Merc flashing, beeping, wker signs…

Edited by carreauchompeur on Tuesday 11th January 11:36

I agree the reaction of the on-comer was completely unnecessary. I don't suppose it would have made any difference, but when overtaking in the face of an on-comer sometimes a left indicator reassures the on-comer that you know they are there and you will be back on your own side of the road in good time.

Personally, I don't like accelerating from behind the vehicle I'm overtaking. I prefer to move offside and have the more complete view before accelerating. If your target brakes for an animal or pedestrian you have not seen you risk going into the back of him.

[ingenieur]

Pica-Pica said:

Then there are those who tailgate you in a 30, then tempt an overtake when the NSL comes up, only for you to boot it up to 60, leaving them out on a limb.

Love it, did that the other day. Some people are so aggressive when it comes to 30 limits. All I care about is not getting caught speeding which is why I very rarely exceed the limit.

When this happened to me it was on a dual carriageway. It was 20mph up to 70mph and the guy looked like an absolute out in the outside lane by himself for no reason. Left him for dust.

Like the 'knight of the road' comment earlier. These types also sit at exactly the speed limit they think is correct for the outside lane of the motorway ignoring plentiful opportunities to move back to the inside lanes because nobody could possibly want to risk going any faster than what they've determined is the correct speed. You see them go absolutely ballistic when an Audi driver comes along and does an undertake!

Lastly, I will admit probably giving someone reasonable cause to overtake when I was looking at the heating controls for too long after entering NSL. But I saw him pull out in my mirror and didn't feel like allowing it. Not because I was intending to drive slowly and wanted to block him, it was just an honest lapse of attention to current speed limit so I fixed it.

[DocSteve]

Tommo87 said:

DocSteve said:

DJP said:

I had this knobbery the other day.

30 limit, I'm on main road. Dick Face pulls out from a side street pretty much right in front of me (yes, I was anticipating it - hence no crash) and then proceeds to drive along at 20mph, in a 30.

So after about half a mile of this I overtake him, deliberately not exceeding 30 in the process, and the C U Next Tuesday flashes me.

So of course I gave him a wave and, since he was limiting his speed, I limited the number of fingers I used.

Fair is, after all, fair.

Overtaking in a 30mph limit even if the subject vehicle is only doing 20mph is likely to be dangerous. Additionally you abused the other driver which is unnecessary and increases the risk of road rage and/or distraction from the task in hand i.e. driving.

Without knowing the 30 limit road it's hard to say how dangerous it was but generally there will be lots of junctions, driveways, pedestrians etc and they won't be expecting a vehicle to be travelling on the other side of the road. Your phrase "deliberately not exceeding 30mph" suggests your driving plan with regard to the overtake was not well thought out and based on some sort of retribution.

You may flame me for my comments but based on yours, you need a lesson and I'm dishing it out. Nothing personal.

I cannot see a problem in overtaking a 20mph vehicle at less than 30mph if there aren’t any hazards like the ones that you yourself actually added to his story.

Unlike yourself, I DO see a problem with people pulling out of side roads into the path of other vehicles already on the carriageway. That IS dangerous, as they often cause multiple vehicles to brake heavily.

I did not say overtaking in a 30mph limit is ALWAYS dangerous and I also did not comment on pulling out of side roads in front of people. The latter is clearly dangerous but I don't think anyone on here was suggesting otherwise so I did not consider it worthy of discussion.

You might say I added to the story which is a fair point but 30mph limits are usually designated as such due to those sorts of hazards. Perhaps not always, but there is generally a good reason they are 30mph limits and are usually (again but not always) hazard rich environments. Other things to consider include the fact that it takes a while to overtake someone doing 20mph within the 30mph limit and that overtaking in 30 limits may anger drivers, especially if they are local residents, meaning that they speed up during the manoeuvre further increasing the danger. The same thing will often happen if you do this on the exit of a 30 limit prior to a NSL or other higher speed limit sign.

I am not saying any of this is black and white but overtaking in a 30 and also aggravating the driver of the subject vehicle by giving them a rude hand signal is not an example of AD in my book (or indeed in Roadcraft).

[carreauchompeur]

waremark said:

Personally, I don't like accelerating from behind the vehicle I'm overtaking. I prefer to move offside and have the more complete view before accelerating. If your target brakes for an animal or pedestrian you have not seen you risk going into the back of him.

Yep, fair comment and in this case i timed it slightly late. It is a great technique for getting overtakes done quickly and efficiently in a planned way. And arriving at the back of the car in front at overtaking speed eliminates a drag race if they decide to block!

[Welshbeef]

I don’t recall overtaking a 20mph vehicle in a 30mph single carriageway.

How long / what is the time exposed to danger?

The other thing to seriously consider is side junction - nobody would expect anyone overtaking so might not be as careful in checking result head on 60mph accident.

[nickfrog]

Is it actually legal in the UK to increase your speed when you're being overtaken? Where I learnt to drive it is written in law. But perhaps in the UK it would fall within due care and attention?

[Scobblelotcher]

Often on the bike I’ve crossed to the other side of the road before accelerating too much as I’m always mindful of the bikes ability to spin up the rear on slippery surfaces like the road markings and I’m always wary of shocking drivers as the bike (factory standard with no modifications) can be noisy over half throttle. However if I don’t get it done quick enough I’ve had cars attempt to block me or out accelerate me. I think it’s just a modern thing and I’ve noticed cars with dash cams seem to be the worst, presumably to get footage?

The other common one is when filtering to the front of the queue at a roundabout or traffic lights cars drivers are often annoyed and attempt to ‘re-overtake’ - most of the time I just out accelerate them but if safe to do so I’ve sometimes let them pass (baring in mind we are often in the same lane). Where possible when I filter the queue I try to position the bike in the centre of the lane to avoid making it possible to try and drag race me off the lights. The bike is so effortlessly fast I never inconvenience anyone but some feel it’s unfair the bike has moved to the front of the queue.

I take the view these days to prepare and then get it done assertively as leisurely overtakes encourage cars to try and drag race or block the bike which I don’t want any of. I ride a super bike (S1000RR/~200bhp) so there isn’t much that can compete but I avoid getting into situations where cars try to compete as I’m the vulnerable party and will come off worst if something goes wrong. I’ve also no interest in racing on public roads and proving something by going very fast. I love fast bikes and riding in general but ride fairly tamely given what’s possible.

I also have a family car (184bhp diesel) which obviously isn’t the last word in performance so often don’t bother even if the car in front is slow and I for the most part will trundle along behind it and stay out of trouble. I’ve overtaken safely previously to have cars chase me down the road for daring to overtake.

This year I intend to take one of the ride safe courses the police offer to try and keep learning more about road craft and riding more safely.

Edited by Scobblelotcher on Tuesday 11th January 23:06

[DocSteve]

Welshbeef said:

I don’t recall overtaking a 20mph vehicle in a 30mph single carriageway.

How long / what is the time exposed to danger?

The other thing to seriously consider is side junction - nobody would expect anyone overtaking so might not be as careful in checking result head on 60mph accident.

This is a very valid point and something I witnessed recently on my own road which has a 20mph limit. Whilst the issue of many drivers only looking to their right before turning left should be considered on any road when thinking about an overtake it is even more likely as you suggest to cause a problem in an urban low speed limit environment.

I haven't had the time to work out the exact time it would take assuming a 20mph vehicle vs a 30mph overtaking vehicle but intuitively I would suggest that it would be longer than desirable. Why bother doing it and even more so why then waste concentration and risk road rage by giving an aggressive hand signal?

[DocSteve]

carreauchompeur said:

This chap would definitely block an overtake. Perfectly safe, only ever planned to overtake the first car and plenty of room. Oncoming Merc flashing, beeping, wker signs…

Edited by carreauchompeur on Tuesday 11th January 11:36

I see your point here but third party perception is something to consider in this situation. The driver of the opposing Merc may have thought you were going to overtake another vehicle and at least initially was using lights to warn you of their presence. I am not saying this was a reason not to do the overtake but a couple of suggestions that may have already been made - indicate left to alert the opposer that you are intending to move back in and also, move out earlier prior to the overtake. The latter will give you a better view, prevent the potentially dangerous situation of you accelerating behind the vehicle you intend to overtake and also give the opposer an earlier view of you which might make them less startled by the sight of you.

However, some people will always be unhappy with perfectly safe manoeuvres and in those cases best to just let it go and continue enjoying your own drive.

[underwhelmist]

Pothole said:

ans often go slow to stop things falling over in the back, or sliding around.

As I discovered to my cost when I negotiated a roundabout in a borrowed van with a washing machine in the back.

[DocSteve]

carreauchompeur said:

waremark said:

Personally, I don't like accelerating from behind the vehicle I'm overtaking. I prefer to move offside and have the more complete view before accelerating. If your target brakes for an animal or pedestrian you have not seen you risk going into the back of him.

Yep, fair comment and in this case i timed it slightly late. It is a great technique for getting overtakes done quickly and efficiently in a planned way. And arriving at the back of the car in front at overtaking speed eliminates a drag race if they decide to block!

To clarify, I assume you mean that waremark's advised technique is efficient? Accelerating directly behind the vehicle to be overtaken is a definite no no. If visibility and available power is so poor that this so-called "banana" overtake is the only option that will work then it should never have been on in the first place as there will be unseen hazards that could cause the vehicle in front to brake harshly. With a significant closing speed you will need very good brakes and luck to deal with that. Drivers of vehicles about to be overtaken often brake unnecessarily as well, thinking that some "madman" is coming past.....

[dvenman]

nickfrog said:

Is it actually legal in the UK to increase your speed when you're being overtaken? Where I learnt to drive it is written in law. But perhaps in the UK it would fall within due care and attention?

Highway code rule 168 says "maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass." So technically yes, illegal. Proving it unless there's a big smash - difficult.

[nickfrog]

dvenman said:

nickfrog said:

Is it actually legal in the UK to increase your speed when you're being overtaken? Where I learnt to drive it is written in law. But perhaps in the UK it would fall within due care and attention?

Highway code rule 168 says "maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass." So technically yes, illegal. Proving it unless there's a big smash - difficult.

Thanks for that, interesting and clearly a rule that isn't always complied with. Not even sure a dashcam could help prove a breach.

[Scobblelotcher]

nickfrog said:

dvenman said:

nickfrog said:

Is it actually legal in the UK to increase your speed when you're being overtaken? Where I learnt to drive it is written in law. But perhaps in the UK it would fall within due care and attention?

Highway code rule 168 says "maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass." So technically yes, illegal. Proving it unless there's a big smash - difficult.

Thanks for that, interesting and clearly a rule that isn't always complied with. Not even sure a dashcam could help prove a breach.

I don't think I have fully understood how the highway code interacts with the law. I know the highway code isn't a legal document.

My understanding is the highway code isn't law but in some cases is backed up by a traffic law. I've always understood that any highway code rule that states 'Must' or 'Must not' is directly backed by traffic laws but I'm not sure I have this correct?

[nickfrog]

^ you are probably right, I shouldn't have used the words legal or law but I meant compliance with HC.