Sitting at junctions/lights with the foot brake on

Sitting at junctions/lights with the foot brake on

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Discussion

hedges88

639 posts

144 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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Ron240 said:
Granadier said:
sometimes the car in front of me at the lights would be alternately creeping forward, then rolling back slightly as the driver attempted to balance the clutch on a gradient. I was never sure if this was a deliberate dance of impatience or just incompetence.
It is 100% incompetence.
I have seen this many times throughout the years and it just looks so amateurish. rolleyes
Let's be honest about it holding a vehicle on a gradient by balancing on the clutch is not good practice for obvious reasons, but being able to do it is an acquired skill that a competent driver should be capable of with relative ease.
I've even noticed some people doing it with torque converter autos, they are on a steep hill and notice that there is no longer any creep whilst in drive so they just sit there and wait having no idea the heat that's building up in the hydraulic fluid

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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hedges88 said:
I've even noticed some people doing it with torque converter autos, they are on a steep hill and notice that there is no longer any creep whilst in drive so they just sit there and wait having no idea the heat that's building up in the hydraulic fluid
And the difference between this and normal driving is?

jamei303

2,996 posts

155 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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Cant Find a Charger when I need one said:
hedges88 said:
I've even noticed some people doing it with torque converter autos, they are on a steep hill and notice that there is no longer any creep whilst in drive so they just sit there and wait having no idea the heat that's building up in the hydraulic fluid
And the difference between this and normal driving is?
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
Tuesday 8th March 2022
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jamei303 said:
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
Thats right, theres no load and shear on the fluid in normal driving lolol

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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jamei303 said:
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
Is your tongue getting stiff from pushing too hard in your cheek?

By the way, I invariably leave clutchless cars in D while waiting, and now when I drive an automatic car which does not have a brake hold facility I really miss it.

flatsix.ant

524 posts

135 months

Thursday 10th March 2022
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I have a question semi related to the topic.

Setting off with just the clutch. I can do this smoothly in both my cars and do it regularly in traffic etc.

Is this the optimal method to cause the minimal amount of clutch wear? Or, is a bit of throttle better for the clutch?

Thanks.
Thursday 10th March 2022
quotequote all
flatsix.ant said:
I have a question semi related to the topic.

Setting off with just the clutch. I can do this smoothly in both my cars and do it regularly in traffic etc.

Is this the optimal method to cause the minimal amount of clutch wear? Or, is a bit of throttle better for the clutch?

Thanks.
I’d have thought a few revs would have been kinder on the whole driveline myself but if you can do that with no ‘shunt’ I don’t see the harm?

I’ve personally never worn a clutch despite plenty of miles in older cars out so it’s never been a big concern

Ron240

2,745 posts

118 months

Thursday 10th March 2022
quotequote all
flatsix.ant said:
Setting off with just the clutch. I can do this smoothly in both my cars and do it regularly in traffic etc.

Is this the optimal method to cause the minimal amount of clutch wear? Or, is a bit of throttle better for the clutch?
I could do this with all my manual cars, but one needs to be very precise in feathering the clutch pedal to be smooth and prevent the engine from stalling.
The take off speed before getting on the gas is extremely slow, so in anything other than start/stop heavy traffic it would not be something I would ever do.
Also with the vehicle moving at tickover it can sometimes cause a jerk when the power feeds in by pressing the gas pedal.

I would not recommend this as a regular driving practice.


Edited by Ron240 on Thursday 10th March 20:22

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Thursday 10th March 2022
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Many modern cars have an 'anti-stall' mechanism - if you let the clutch out without touching the throttle the computer applies a little gas to prevent the engine stalling.

Famously, the Carrera GT - from the last generation of hypercars to have a manual gearbox - is virtually impossible to get off the line without stalling UNLESS you move away without touching the throttle.

Modern clutches cope with a lot. I have heard that even driving school cars don't wear out their clutches. I would say it is fine to move off without using the accelerator so long as it gets you the results you want in terms of smoothness and progress off the line.

hedges88

639 posts

144 months

Thursday 17th March 2022
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jamei303 said:
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
No sorry not having that. Being stationary with the brakes, on yes the fluid builds heat. If the incline is steep enough autos roll back instead of creeping. The engine will maintain its idle speed, so it's becomes a bit more like when you launch an auto by holding the brake. An auto on an incline holding itself is different than being stationary. If you have to use the accelerator to keep it rolling back then that's 100% more heat and stress than sitting with the brakes on.
.

Thursday 17th March 2022
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hedges88 said:
jamei303 said:
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
No sorry not having that. Being stationary with the brakes, on yes the fluid builds heat. If the incline is steep enough autos roll back instead of creeping. The engine will maintain its idle speed, so it's becomes a bit more like when you launch an auto by holding the brake. An auto on an incline holding itself is different than being stationary. If you have to use the accelerator to keep it rolling back then that's 100% more heat and stress than sitting with the brakes on.
.
What kind of auto are you talking about?


hedges88

639 posts

144 months

Thursday 17th March 2022
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Cant Find a Charger when I need one said:
hedges88 said:
jamei303 said:
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
No sorry not having that. Being stationary with the brakes, on yes the fluid builds heat. If the incline is steep enough autos roll back instead of creeping. The engine will maintain its idle speed, so it's becomes a bit more like when you launch an auto by holding the brake. An auto on an incline holding itself is different than being stationary. If you have to use the accelerator to keep it rolling back then that's 100% more heat and stress than sitting with the brakes on.
.
What kind of auto are you talking about?
Any torque converter auto whether it be a planetary/CVT or Honda design. Holding stationary on the brake the fluid is flung from the impeller, meets a stationary turbine and is forced back through to the stator. If the car is rolling back and you are using throttle to maintain it rather than the brake or if it's just about holding istelf, like no rolling back but no creep that's more stressful. People can take the Mickey from what I said but that's true. It's irrelevant anyway most now shift to neutral behind the scenes and rely on hill hold

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

45 months

Monday 21st March 2022
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Spoke to a friend I have known for years recently about this, he said he literally only ever used the handbrake on hill starts, good driver, likes driving, yet this, nothing to do with modern handbrakes or cars just lazy.

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Monday 21st March 2022
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LukeBrown66 said:
Spoke to a friend I have known for years recently about this, he said he literally only ever used the handbrake on hill starts, good driver, likes driving, yet this, nothing to do with modern handbrakes or cars just lazy.
It is unlikely to be a matter of being lazy. Different drivers have different models in their head of what constitutes good driving. A driver who doesn't use the parking brake probably doesn't see a reason to use the parking brake.

Ron240

2,745 posts

118 months

Monday 21st March 2022
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waremark said:
A driver who doesn't use the parking brake probably doesn't see a reason to use the parking brake.
Wise words.
I consider myself to be a good driver (don't we all) and I rarely see a reason to use the electronic parking brake.


Mr Miata

948 posts

49 months

Monday 21st March 2022
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jamei303 said:
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
I call bullsh*t on this one.

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Monday 21st March 2022
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Mr Miata said:
jamei303 said:
I frequently see stationary cars catch fire at traffic lights due to people leaving them in drive.
I call bullsh*t on this one.
I call for a parrot smile
Monday 21st March 2022
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Monkeylegend said:
I call for a parrot smile
Absolutely

Timbob1989

7 posts

37 months

Friday 29th April 2022
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Always used the handbrake when I had a manual. Now have a DSG (not my choice - miss the stick) and almost always in manual mode. The annoying procedure of flicking it right from manual to auto, then up into N, then back again to pull off, gets on my nerves!

ashenfie

704 posts

45 months

Wednesday 4th May 2022
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I actually think its handy to see someone break lights are on when stationary at a junction