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Discussion
Oh Good Grief, there are some sad threads on here aren't there. Congratulations to all you who have managed to find the 'Valhalla of boredom'.
Started riding 33 years ago, before I got a license. Passed my bike test one week after my 17 th birthday. Wrote my first bike off at 17 and a half. Passed by car license (second time of asking) at 18. Wrote my first car off at 19. Completed Skid courses at Brands Hatch and Thruxton. Raced Formula Ford and Saloon cars all over the UK (Never won or crashed). Completed the Yamaha open course at Donnington and the 3-day Mororcyclists course at the Nurburgring. I've been banned for Dangerous Driving, Driving without due care and attention, Wreckless Driving and Speeding. Also managed to break the record (as far as I am aware) of having 14 points on my license without losing it.
Decided that UK motoring was not for me and moved to the continent where, rather than reprove spirited driving, they celebrate it !
Just bought my first TVR last week and look forward to meeting you all 'on the other side' which is where we'll all be going - eventually.
Started riding 33 years ago, before I got a license. Passed my bike test one week after my 17 th birthday. Wrote my first bike off at 17 and a half. Passed by car license (second time of asking) at 18. Wrote my first car off at 19. Completed Skid courses at Brands Hatch and Thruxton. Raced Formula Ford and Saloon cars all over the UK (Never won or crashed). Completed the Yamaha open course at Donnington and the 3-day Mororcyclists course at the Nurburgring. I've been banned for Dangerous Driving, Driving without due care and attention, Wreckless Driving and Speeding. Also managed to break the record (as far as I am aware) of having 14 points on my license without losing it.
Decided that UK motoring was not for me and moved to the continent where, rather than reprove spirited driving, they celebrate it !
Just bought my first TVR last week and look forward to meeting you all 'on the other side' which is where we'll all be going - eventually.
Passed my test in 1987.
One of the few people who was actually taught to overtake - my father (himself a member of the IAM and also a handy wheelman with a string of performance car ownership over the years) took it upon himself to teach me how to drive after I passed my test.
Passed IAM in 1997
Did a half-day RideDrive course with Steve 'MapCop' P (as was then) a couple of years ago who was fairly complimentary of my driving, which was nice.
Have done a number of track days and 'experiences' (eg. Caterham Experience at Silverstone) over the years.
Have an open invitation to go out for an observed drive with Don which I really, really must take him up on some time.
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 2nd September 10:17
One of the few people who was actually taught to overtake - my father (himself a member of the IAM and also a handy wheelman with a string of performance car ownership over the years) took it upon himself to teach me how to drive after I passed my test.
Passed IAM in 1997
Did a half-day RideDrive course with Steve 'MapCop' P (as was then) a couple of years ago who was fairly complimentary of my driving, which was nice.
Have done a number of track days and 'experiences' (eg. Caterham Experience at Silverstone) over the years.
Have an open invitation to go out for an observed drive with Don which I really, really must take him up on some time.
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 2nd September 10:17
Tiga aka James (Jim)
been driving since 17, so 8 yrs ish, no points, only ever stopped once by the BiB ( a little over zealous in the snow
)
Was qualifying to be ADI (took part 2, failed by 1...) then company went bust.
National A Licence for the track, will be doing IAM (lazy bugger I know) and maybe try a RosPa in future.
been driving since 17, so 8 yrs ish, no points, only ever stopped once by the BiB ( a little over zealous in the snow
) Was qualifying to be ADI (took part 2, failed by 1...) then company went bust.
National A Licence for the track, will be doing IAM (lazy bugger I know) and maybe try a RosPa in future.
Eliminator - John
IAM car passed 1990
Observer then for 8 years, now ceased
Chairman of local IAM group for 4, then ceased
Motorcycle IAM passed last year
MAC, BMW or other instruction on motorcycle each year
Skid pan training (x4 so far)
Off-road courses (3x car, 2x bike)
Track days
IAM car passed 1990
Observer then for 8 years, now ceased
Chairman of local IAM group for 4, then ceased
Motorcycle IAM passed last year
MAC, BMW or other instruction on motorcycle each year
Skid pan training (x4 so far)
Off-road courses (3x car, 2x bike)
Track days
Tom: driving 21 years, riding 18 years
Ex-Met Trafpol, Class 1 car and bike
Ride-Drive instructor, ex-MAC fleet instructor, ADI and DSA Fleet register. Ex-Chairman and still Senior Observer with local IAM bike group. Awaiting call-up as IAM bike examiner and re-joining the Met into the Driving School!
Ex-Met Trafpol, Class 1 car and bike
Ride-Drive instructor, ex-MAC fleet instructor, ADI and DSA Fleet register. Ex-Chairman and still Senior Observer with local IAM bike group. Awaiting call-up as IAM bike examiner and re-joining the Met into the Driving School!
Driving since age 17, first rode a motorbike aged 22 and have been leaning more towards the two-wheeled side ever since (though I still find cars more interesting from the technical/engineering point of view and have more nerdy knowledge of cars than bikes).
Took a break from the roads a few years back due largely to being pissed off at the government making it so expensive, but missed the fun too much so bit the bullet and got a cheap-to-run bike. I think the break was valuable in that I still continued to absorb good information on driving but without it being pushed into the background by the intensity of actually driving - does that make sense? - so I have been able to become more self-critical and not run away with myself so much.
I have no advanced qualifications but I do like to learn about things I am doing wrong and do something about it. Interaction with drivers who have enthusiasm for both speed and safety has been my best learning resource so far, so I am most grateful to Ted for opening this forum
I consider my biggest weakness to be failure to maintain a proper level of concentration at all times. After an uneventful few miles where nothing much has happened and I've been cruising along at a constant speed I notice a car in my mirrors, then realise I didn't see him get there and realise I've gone into fuzzy mode and have to snap myself out of it.
Took a break from the roads a few years back due largely to being pissed off at the government making it so expensive, but missed the fun too much so bit the bullet and got a cheap-to-run bike. I think the break was valuable in that I still continued to absorb good information on driving but without it being pushed into the background by the intensity of actually driving - does that make sense? - so I have been able to become more self-critical and not run away with myself so much.
I have no advanced qualifications but I do like to learn about things I am doing wrong and do something about it. Interaction with drivers who have enthusiasm for both speed and safety has been my best learning resource so far, so I am most grateful to Ted for opening this forum
I consider my biggest weakness to be failure to maintain a proper level of concentration at all times. After an uneventful few miles where nothing much has happened and I've been cruising along at a constant speed I notice a car in my mirrors, then realise I didn't see him get there and realise I've gone into fuzzy mode and have to snap myself out of it.
Driving for 17 years, 15 of them with the benfit of proper training 
Missed out IAM and RoADA and went straight to HPC. Every time I've gone to 'backfill' I've been a little put-off by the 'pipe and slippers' apparent ethos and the intractable ways of both organisations.
After nine years as a forensic scientist specialising in RTAs, I got fed up of doing nothing but putting bad drivers behind bars and became an advanced instructor preventing bad driving. I know work for the bloke who trained me all those years ago...
Missed out IAM and RoADA and went straight to HPC. Every time I've gone to 'backfill' I've been a little put-off by the 'pipe and slippers' apparent ethos and the intractable ways of both organisations. After nine years as a forensic scientist specialising in RTAs, I got fed up of doing nothing but putting bad drivers behind bars and became an advanced instructor preventing bad driving. I know work for the bloke who trained me all those years ago...
Can i say firstly thank god you are talking about motoring matters it makes a change from some of the subjects some PHers talk about.
Now you are probably not going to like this but i can`t quite get my head around this IAM stuff.
If you are a plumber why should you want to be an advanced plumber, or why should a electrician want to be an advanced spark.
If you wanted a new bathroom fitting would you let your mate who had fitted one a few years ago do it or would you get a professional in to do it.
If you are like me and want the job doing right first time you get the professionals in.
I am a truck driver (Oh god here he goes again) and i spend 7 hours a day behind the wheel and one of your subjects was when and how to change gear.
You want to try moving 40 tonnes along and shifting through 16 gears with a top speed of 56mph.
You would listen to plunber or a electrician but you would`nt accept what i`m saying and i`m a professional driver.
I`m very happy with my driving record, I`m safe and thats all that matters.
Some people might say that the safest drivers on the road are those that have just passed there test.
I don`t think i am the best driver in England but IAM seam to think they are brilliant and that usually means you can`t tell them anything.
We all think that every other motorist is an idiot but IAM are convinced they KNOW every other one is.
Sorry lads
Now you are probably not going to like this but i can`t quite get my head around this IAM stuff.
If you are a plumber why should you want to be an advanced plumber, or why should a electrician want to be an advanced spark.
If you wanted a new bathroom fitting would you let your mate who had fitted one a few years ago do it or would you get a professional in to do it.
If you are like me and want the job doing right first time you get the professionals in.
I am a truck driver (Oh god here he goes again) and i spend 7 hours a day behind the wheel and one of your subjects was when and how to change gear.
You want to try moving 40 tonnes along and shifting through 16 gears with a top speed of 56mph.
You would listen to plunber or a electrician but you would`nt accept what i`m saying and i`m a professional driver.
I`m very happy with my driving record, I`m safe and thats all that matters.
Some people might say that the safest drivers on the road are those that have just passed there test.
I don`t think i am the best driver in England but IAM seam to think they are brilliant and that usually means you can`t tell them anything.
We all think that every other motorist is an idiot but IAM are convinced they KNOW every other one is.
Sorry lads
bmw114 said:
You would listen to plunber or a electrician but you would`nt accept what i`m saying and i`m a professional driver.
I might accept it, but I don't know what you're saying
bmw114 said:
I don`t think i am the best driver in England but IAM seam to think they are brilliant and that usually means you can`t tell them anything.
We all think that every other motorist is an idiot but IAM are convinced they KNOW every other one is.
Unfortunately there are some who think like that, who want an IAM badge to show how much better they are than everybody else.
There are a lot more who take the IAM test (or any of the others) so that they can be as good as they can be, or at least better than they were. What's wrong with that?
I'm not going to fall into the trap of saying how often I have seen so-called "professional" drivers make a complete mess of things, because it would be unfair to stereotype all professional drivers on the basis of the shortcomings of a few. I would suggest that it's equally unfair to stereotype any other category of driver... IAM and/or idiot
tvrgit said:
[quote=bmw114]You would listen to plunber or a electrician but you would`nt accept what i`m saying and i`m a professional driver.
I might accept it, but I don't know what you're saying
You know what i`m saying,just because someone has a certificate does not make them Mr Perfect (keep out of it Mr Perfect).
Experience, thats what makes you a good driver and 7 hours a day makes me better than most just like a plumber doing a 40 hour week makes him the best man to fit your new bathroom.
I don`t like giving people advice unless they ask for it (when i want your advice i`ll ask for it) Its the same with driving.
A certificate does not give someone the right to preach, just like i have no right to tell you how to drive, but if you want to know about driving ask someone that does a bit, not someone that has a CERTIFICATE.
Sorry its come out a bit strong i do apologise.
OK - thread hijack.
So.
Just because one has O level Maths and it means you can do arithmetic and geometry and so on does it mean there is no benefit in getting an A level?
After all you can have tons of experience at arithmetic and geometry, be really good at them, do wonderful joinery and building and all sort of great things with them. Does that mean there's no benefit in the A level?
Does that mean people with the A level "Certificate" shouldn't be allowed to teach maths because its a bit poncey and all you could ever need is O level so why not get people with O level to teach it?
See how it ridiculous it sounds? Although I guarantee there are those out there who think its true...not one of 'em could have got as far as E=mc2 let alone the host of other useful stuff that's not as advanced!
Getting the piece of paper is irrelevant anyway. Its getting the respect of your fellows and reaching the standard they deem "Advanced".
If you compare an IAM test to an A level its not far off in the analogy as, of course, you can go far, far beyond it - learning more and more. "Degree"s and "Doctorate's" in driving. And guess what. When you get those things you even get a CERTIFICATE to say you've done 'em - mainly for you to feel proud of and keep at home - there again you never know when an employer might want you to prove you have A level Maths - or a HGV licence - or even the RoSPA Gold you claim to have.
FFS. What a closed minded attitude.
So. Finally a forum in which we discuss motoring matters of driving skills and techniques. And we get a load of posts by people who want to take a pop at "elitist" groups who issue CERTIFICATES for driving skills achievement. Maybe because they don't have them themselves?
I
give up. I really do.
You want to criticise? Do it from a position of knowledge. You just don't "get it"? Well do the course. Show how easy it is to PASS. Show me the CERTIFICATE. And you can tell me how much was bollox and how much wasn't. And THEN I'll LISTEN!
So.
Just because one has O level Maths and it means you can do arithmetic and geometry and so on does it mean there is no benefit in getting an A level?
After all you can have tons of experience at arithmetic and geometry, be really good at them, do wonderful joinery and building and all sort of great things with them. Does that mean there's no benefit in the A level?
Does that mean people with the A level "Certificate" shouldn't be allowed to teach maths because its a bit poncey and all you could ever need is O level so why not get people with O level to teach it?
See how it ridiculous it sounds? Although I guarantee there are those out there who think its true...not one of 'em could have got as far as E=mc2 let alone the host of other useful stuff that's not as advanced!
Getting the piece of paper is irrelevant anyway. Its getting the respect of your fellows and reaching the standard they deem "Advanced".
If you compare an IAM test to an A level its not far off in the analogy as, of course, you can go far, far beyond it - learning more and more. "Degree"s and "Doctorate's" in driving. And guess what. When you get those things you even get a CERTIFICATE to say you've done 'em - mainly for you to feel proud of and keep at home - there again you never know when an employer might want you to prove you have A level Maths - or a HGV licence - or even the RoSPA Gold you claim to have.
FFS. What a closed minded attitude.
So. Finally a forum in which we discuss motoring matters of driving skills and techniques. And we get a load of posts by people who want to take a pop at "elitist" groups who issue CERTIFICATES for driving skills achievement. Maybe because they don't have them themselves?
I
give up. I really do. You want to criticise? Do it from a position of knowledge. You just don't "get it"? Well do the course. Show how easy it is to PASS. Show me the CERTIFICATE. And you can tell me how much was bollox and how much wasn't. And THEN I'll LISTEN!
I think sometimes the only way to properly explain the benefits of advanced driving is to arrange a demonstration drive for the non-belieivers. A quite 20 minute drive in their car with them driving. The same in your car. Compare notes, be critical (if appropriate) and supportive.
Many people seem to do IAM/RoSPA courses and then provudly display their skill level on their front frill. I've no idea why. No one can be a perfect driver and when something goes wrong and an IAM/RoSPA driver does something, shall we say, less than "textbook" you are going to have the anti-IAM/RoSPA brigade screaming "See, I told you it was all a load of bollox!"
Many people seem to do IAM/RoSPA courses and then provudly display their skill level on their front frill. I've no idea why. No one can be a perfect driver and when something goes wrong and an IAM/RoSPA driver does something, shall we say, less than "textbook" you are going to have the anti-IAM/RoSPA brigade screaming "See, I told you it was all a load of bollox!"
I never claimed to be Mr Perfect. Nobody here has claimed to be Mr Perfect, just better than I was before.
Professional drivers eh? I take it you mean people who are paid to drive. So that includes all taxi drivers, couriers, post office drivers, sales reps, in fact just about 80% (probably) of the drivers on the road - and they are all better than average? Statistically, that's just not possible.
You are absolutely correct in one thing: the worst kind of driver is the one who thinks he knows it all, but doesn't, and goes through life under a delusion of perfection where he believes he can do no wrong.
Everybody makes mistakes. I certainly do. Do you?
Professional drivers eh? I take it you mean people who are paid to drive. So that includes all taxi drivers, couriers, post office drivers, sales reps, in fact just about 80% (probably) of the drivers on the road - and they are all better than average? Statistically, that's just not possible.
You are absolutely correct in one thing: the worst kind of driver is the one who thinks he knows it all, but doesn't, and goes through life under a delusion of perfection where he believes he can do no wrong.
Everybody makes mistakes. I certainly do. Do you?
"The fool thinks he knows everything, whilst the wise man knows that he always has much to learn".
Let me put it this way. I am a professional C++ developer with over 10 years experience and am considered by many to be an expert in my field. Does that mean I know everything? Christ, no! There are always going to be people who know more than me unless I become the world's leading authority on the subject.
So tell me bmw114, are you the world's leading authority on driving, or do you perhaps acknowledge that others might possibly know more than you?
Let me put it this way. I am a professional C++ developer with over 10 years experience and am considered by many to be an expert in my field. Does that mean I know everything? Christ, no! There are always going to be people who know more than me unless I become the world's leading authority on the subject.
So tell me bmw114, are you the world's leading authority on driving, or do you perhaps acknowledge that others might possibly know more than you?
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