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I recently signed up for the Skills for Life course and have so far had 5 or so observed runs. Unfortunately, work has taken me away from home for a month or so but I was just about to do my last run, then a practice test with someone else to make sure that I'm ready for the test. Hopefully I'll get that done next month now.
Anyway, I signed up because I think my driving is fairly good but I wanted someone else to tell me if it actually is or not.
I have mixed feelings about it really. Some of the stuff is very good, like the observation. But other areas such as shuffling the wheel, not braking and changing down I still can't accept. Another pointless thing is putting your handbrake on whenever you stop for more than just a few seconds. After all, it's called a parking brake, and when stopped at a junction, I've not parked.
So, to conclude, I'll finish and take the test, and hopefully pass, but if I fail I want be that upset.
Adrian
Anyway, I signed up because I think my driving is fairly good but I wanted someone else to tell me if it actually is or not.
I have mixed feelings about it really. Some of the stuff is very good, like the observation. But other areas such as shuffling the wheel, not braking and changing down I still can't accept. Another pointless thing is putting your handbrake on whenever you stop for more than just a few seconds. After all, it's called a parking brake, and when stopped at a junction, I've not parked.
So, to conclude, I'll finish and take the test, and hopefully pass, but if I fail I want be that upset.
Adrian
adrianmugridge said:
Another pointless thing is putting your handbrake on whenever you stop for more than just a few seconds. After all, it's called a parking brake, and when stopped at a junction, I've not parked.
That one I find easy to understand. It reduces the chances of being projected out into the oncoming traffic if someone hits you up the arse, and it makes your getaway smoother/cleaner/quicker.
Pigeon said:
Another pointless thing is putting your handbrake on whenever you stop for more than just a few seconds. After all, it's called a parking brake, and when stopped at a junction, I've not parked.
That one I find easy to understand. It reduces the chances of being projected out into the oncoming traffic if someone hits you up the arse, and it makes your getaway smoother/cleaner/quicker.
Have you not contridicted yourself ? It might reduce the chaces of being shunted in to the oncoming traffic but it leads to a less than smooth & quicker getaway as you have to fiddle with the parking brake before moving off.
Also, I get told to push the button in when I apply the brake. What for ? I'm told it's to stop the racket wearing out but a) Who's ever heard of the racket wearing out ? and b) it's my car, so I can do with it as I please.
adrianmugridge said:
Have you not contridicted yourself ? It might reduce the chaces of being shunted in to the oncoming traffic but it leads to a less than smooth & quicker getaway as you have to fiddle with the parking brake before moving off.
No he didn't. And does it really?
Most cars are fitted with a "handbrake". Very useful for holding the car still whilst you have the clutch in and first gear engaged ready for a quick getaway.
Of course you have to get to that point...which is why "first on the roll" is a useful technique - which most of us have worked out through sheer experience - but if someone doesn't know hwo to do it then they'd be taught on an IAM course...or should be anyway.
Some cars - like most Mercedes, and some Toyotas (e.g. Prius) - are fitted with a "Parking Brake". Generally its foot operated. Damn PITA thing. There's little for it with one of those other than to avoid using it as much as possible as far as I can see....
adrianmugridge said:
Also, I get told to push the button in when I apply the brake. What for ? I'm told it's to stop the racket wearing out but a) Who's ever heard of the racket wearing out ? and b) it's my car, so I can do with it as I please.
a) They do. b) Nice. Go ahead.
If you've got a Company car go ahead and enjoy wearing your ratchet out. Yes it takes a long time. So what? Do you deliberately "clutch ride" to hold the car still on hills? Wearing the clutch out takes a long time too...
I understand "Gone" more and more these days...
Don said:
Most cars are fitted with a "handbrake". Very useful for holding the car still whilst you have the clutch in and first gear engaged ready for a quick getaway.
I generally do wait in 1st with my foot on the clucth. But, I just put my other foot on the brake pedal and don't bother with the handbrake. It's quicker to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator than to take the handbrake off.
Don said:
Of course you have to get to that point...which is why "first on the roll" is a useful technique - which most of us have worked out through sheer experience - but if someone doesn't know hwo to do it then they'd be taught on an IAM course...or should be anyway.
I assume by "first on the roll" you mean as you are coming to a stop, just rolling slowly, you put the car in to first with the clutch in. I alway do that and get told not to do it on my IAM lessons. I'm told to wait until the car has come to a standstill, then engage the handbrake and only then can I select 1st gear.
Don said:
Nice. Go ahead.
Yes, it is my car, so if I wear the rachet out, I pay for it. If I wear the clutch out, I pay for it again. It's just the same as smoking in my car. I don't smoke, and I don't allow anyone to smoke in it. But if someone smokes they can smoke in their own car, it's nothing to do with me.
adrianmugridge said:
I generally do wait in 1st with my foot on the clucth. But, I just put my other foot on the brake pedal and don't bother with the handbrake. It's quicker to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator than to take the handbrake off.
I can assure you it isn't. For ultimate traffic-light GP action you want to move as little as possible. Left foot on clutch, right on the accelerator with just the right amount of revs, left hand on handbrake with the button held in and the lever raised, lights change, dump clutch whilst simultaneously dropping the handbrake and flooring the accelerator (whilst controlling any wheelspin).
Net result is a technique referred to as "firing it off the handbrake". Used extensively by rally drivers, road testers and drag racers.
Using the footbrake means that, not only do you have to move your foot from the brake to the acellerator, but you're not able to hold the revs at the right level and therefore bog down and get a slow getaway.
Who said IAM is dull?
(BTW, yanking the handbrake makes that awful ratchet k-k-k-k-k-k-klack noise. Eek
- just sends shudders up my spine. Awful noise, can't stand it. That's why I hold the button in.) >> Edited by JonRB on Friday 9th September 09:53
adrianmugridge said:
I generally do wait in 1st with my foot on the clucth. But, I just put my other foot on the brake pedal and don't bother with the handbrake. It's quicker to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator than to take the handbrake off.
OK. I disagree on the handbrake and speed, though. Using the handbrake in this situation allows you to ensure the car does not "roll" (e.g. backwards) whilst pulling away. In no way does this slow down my getaway...I reckon. In the L test if your car rolls out of gear, and particularly backwards, its a fail. Its a fail in the IAM test too. This is NOT to say that a pull away cannot be done without the handbrake - it clearly can. And if you have one of those "foot operated parking brakes" there's nothing else for it. Whether or not you use the handbrake is up to you - but I find its better for controlling roll.
The other benefit of the handbrake is that the brake lights aren't on blinding the guy behind. Of course - that's just a courtesy - but its still a nice one. I always appreciate it - just as I'm irritated when people don't do it.
adrianmugridge said:
I assume by "first on the roll" you mean as you are coming to a stop, just rolling slowly, you put the car in to first with the clutch in. I alway do that and get told not to do it on my IAM lessons. I'm told to wait until the car has come to a standstill, then engage the handbrake and only then can I select 1st gear.
If you are only going to be stopped momentarily there is not need for the handbrake. In fact if you will always be moving very slowly there is definitely no need for the handbrake. Learners get the "always use the handbrake" drill. For an Advanced Test you should be "using the handbrake to advantage" i.e. when there is some benefit in car control. What's the point in putting it on solely for "rote"? "Pass Your Advanced Driving Test" (the book) covers this.
If your Observer is commenting on your use of the handbrake ask to read the passage in the book together and make sure you understand what its asking you to do...and get your Observer to explain where you aren't doing it right. If your Observer can't then, hey!, good for you. Some Observers do not always keep up with the latest advice in the book, sadly.
As a rule if you are actually going to stop for more than a second or two you should stop in the gear you are in. Engage the handbrake. Engage neutral. Then engage first and move off.
If you NOT going to stop (and this is GOOD - better for the car, better for progress) then engaging first at a very slow speed "on the roll" is what to do.
Does that sound reasonable? It sounds to me like you are trying to do the right thing...
adrianmugridge said:
Yes, it is my car, so if I wear the rachet out, I pay for it. If I wear the clutch out, I pay for it again. It's just the same as smoking in my car. I don't smoke, and I don't allow anyone to smoke in it. But if someone smokes they can smoke in their own car, it's nothing to do with me.
But why? Why deliberately do something which, albeit slowly, wears something out, when there is no need. How hard is it to push in the button with your thumb whilst pulling up the lever? I just don't understand why you'd want to do it!
Anyway. Good for you taking the test. I'm sure you won't disagree with everything you cover. Good luck and I hope you pass - then *you* can decide what you want to carry over into your daily driving.
However critical I may be on here I am still delighted and impressed anytime anyone says, "I am doing the IAM test"...even if they disagree with either the IAM (so do I on some things!) or ME! (Fair enough!)
This may be a pertinent point:
Whilst having some RideDrive Tuition I was advised NOT to put the hand brake on whilst at the back of a queue of traffic, rather to use the footbrake. This keeps your rear brake lights illuminated and helps increase you visability to the numpty approaching the queue too fast from behind. Is also worth keeping the car in gear with half a car lenght in front of you should you have to crawl forward to increase the stopping distance behind you for said Numpty....
HTH
Cheers,
Steve
Whilst having some RideDrive Tuition I was advised NOT to put the hand brake on whilst at the back of a queue of traffic, rather to use the footbrake. This keeps your rear brake lights illuminated and helps increase you visability to the numpty approaching the queue too fast from behind. Is also worth keeping the car in gear with half a car lenght in front of you should you have to crawl forward to increase the stopping distance behind you for said Numpty....
HTH
Cheers,
Steve
Fat Audi 80 said:I was told to apply the handbrake and keep my brake lights illuminated until the car behind had come to a stop. The latter for the reason you already mentioned, but crucially the former so that if you are rear-ended the force of the impact may cause you to momentarily release the footbrake and be punted into the car in front.
Whilst having some RideDrive Tuition I was advised NOT to put the hand brake on whilst at the back of a queue of traffic, rather to use the footbrake. This keeps your rear brake lights illuminated and helps increase you visability to the numpty approaching the queue too fast from behind.
I've one more comment on handbrakes : I've got an Esprit and using the handbrake is not very user friendly due to it's location. It's on the right hand side ( i.e. not in the usual place ) and it's so far forward that you have to lean forward to reach it ( and I'm not very tall either, so that makes it worse ). After 13 years I've given up with it and only use it when it's parked, so that's probably why I don't like using it very much.
Adrian
Adrian
Adrian - same problem with my Chimaera, so I do tend to use the footbrake a lot more like you say.
That doesn't make me hypocrite, BTW, I just acknowledge and accept that relying on the footbrake is inferior but acceptable given what a pig the handbrake is on my Chimaera.
However, on the Corrado (which has a great handbrake) I'll use that in preference for all the reasons already discussed.
That doesn't make me hypocrite, BTW, I just acknowledge and accept that relying on the footbrake is inferior but acceptable given what a pig the handbrake is on my Chimaera.
However, on the Corrado (which has a great handbrake) I'll use that in preference for all the reasons already discussed.
JonRB said:
Adrian - same problem with my Chimaera, so I do tend to use the footbrake a lot more like you say.
Yes - the handbrake on my Chimaera is shite as well. Mainly because its difficult to actually get on and off - hey you work with what you got!
The handbrake on my Porsche needs adjusting too. On a steep hill coming out of Goodwood I had to apply footbrake to keep the car from rolling...still it will be sorted in a week or two...
JonRB said:
I was told to apply the handbrake and keep my brake lights illuminated until the car behind had come to a stop. The latter for the reason you already mentioned, but crucially the former so that if you are rear-ended the force of the impact may cause you to momentarily release the footbrake and be punted into the car in front.
If you are rear-ended frankly it makes little difference whether you are sitting with your foot on the brake or have the handbrake applied - if there's enough speed change you're going to be moving forwards into the car in front.
Personally, I tend to not bother with the handbrake until a few other cars have stopped behind me, but rather sit in 1st gear ready to go (having handily left enough space in front of me) in case the cars behind decide not to stop. It may not be very gallant allowing someone else to take your impact, but it's cheaper...
I also find flashing brake lights work better than just a steady light.
StressedDave said:
It may not be very gallant allowing someone else to take your impact, but it's cheaper...
But good advice all the same. At the back of queues on the motorway I try to leave a decent gap between me and the car in front to create an escape route and I keep s steady eye on the rear-view mirror...
I may be showing my age here but what ever happened to the hill start on the driving test.
If you could not master it, you failed.
So the government set the rules then as individuals we tailor them to suit ourselves,sounds a bit dodgy to me.
I was told if you park your car on an incline and get some one to put a raw egg behind one of your back wheels, you should be able to move off forwards without breaking the egg.
I would think that would be almost impossible if you did a little tap dance from brake to gas pedal, so it follows if you were on your test you would fail.
Hey don`t shoot the messenger
If you could not master it, you failed.
So the government set the rules then as individuals we tailor them to suit ourselves,sounds a bit dodgy to me.
I was told if you park your car on an incline and get some one to put a raw egg behind one of your back wheels, you should be able to move off forwards without breaking the egg.
I would think that would be almost impossible if you did a little tap dance from brake to gas pedal, so it follows if you were on your test you would fail.
Hey don`t shoot the messenger
Failed the IAM test in 1966 - no prep and exaggerated ideas about my ability - so normal result.
BUT, retained an interest in Advanced driving until retirement in 1999...passed IAM after 2 Observed drives and got RoSPA Silver and Gold a year later and again Gold on retest...so even failing can be instructive - even if it takes 33 years!
Now Senior Observer and not really, I hope, Boring Old Fart, just trying every week to pass on experience and avoid Traffic Police having to knock on doors with bad news.
BOF.
It might be worth mentioning on a new website that IAM Observers are subject to, in my case, a ten week training course...2 hours every Saturday for 10 weeks, Test by a Class 1 Traffic man, a written Test to become a Senior Observer, and annual check drives by the Chief Observer - who again shows me sometimes that I know frig all!.
BUT, retained an interest in Advanced driving until retirement in 1999...passed IAM after 2 Observed drives and got RoSPA Silver and Gold a year later and again Gold on retest...so even failing can be instructive - even if it takes 33 years!
Now Senior Observer and not really, I hope, Boring Old Fart, just trying every week to pass on experience and avoid Traffic Police having to knock on doors with bad news.
BOF.
It might be worth mentioning on a new website that IAM Observers are subject to, in my case, a ten week training course...2 hours every Saturday for 10 weeks, Test by a Class 1 Traffic man, a written Test to become a Senior Observer, and annual check drives by the Chief Observer - who again shows me sometimes that I know frig all!.
On one occasion by keeping an eye on the rear view mirror I was able to move out of harms way when the car behind me failed to stop (he needed one extra car length, which I was able to give him by moving half into the next lane). This time he was approaching at speed so it was clear at an early stage that he was going to have trouble stopping.
Next time (ten years or so later) I was stopped at a pedex and the car behind ran into me at 30 mph, at these lower speeds it was much later before I realized that he wasn't going to stop, I had the wheels spinning and had moved about six inches when he hit me. If I had spotted him a second earlier I could probably have got out the way but at those speeds it all happens too late.
The third time another five years later I was at a roundabout when the car behind drove into me at 20 mph having failed to notice me until the last moment. Unfortunately this time I was looking at the approaching traffic on the roundabout which puts the rear view mirror right out of peripheral vision.
By being alert you can sometimes avoid trouble, but sometimes these guys are going to hit somebody and it's going to be you.
Next time (ten years or so later) I was stopped at a pedex and the car behind ran into me at 30 mph, at these lower speeds it was much later before I realized that he wasn't going to stop, I had the wheels spinning and had moved about six inches when he hit me. If I had spotted him a second earlier I could probably have got out the way but at those speeds it all happens too late.
The third time another five years later I was at a roundabout when the car behind drove into me at 20 mph having failed to notice me until the last moment. Unfortunately this time I was looking at the approaching traffic on the roundabout which puts the rear view mirror right out of peripheral vision.
By being alert you can sometimes avoid trouble, but sometimes these guys are going to hit somebody and it's going to be you.
Hi All,
I've only just noticed this Forum, a recent addition??
The obligatory intro:
Dad was a Police Class I and 'suggested' I do an IAM course when observing my driving 'skills' some years ago; not looked back since. Passed in 1998 with the Derby Group and observed for them for several years; Moved to Nottingham a few years back and am now a Senior Observer with the Nottingham Trent group. Got my long planned TVR a few months back and am enjoying developing my skills in my first 'proper' sports car.
Hi Tracy,
still waiting for the promised e-mail!! The next Notts Trent course starts on Tues 20th Sept - contact Viv Rees on 0115 972 3972 if you want to put your money where....
I've only just noticed this Forum, a recent addition??
The obligatory intro:
Dad was a Police Class I and 'suggested' I do an IAM course when observing my driving 'skills' some years ago; not looked back since. Passed in 1998 with the Derby Group and observed for them for several years; Moved to Nottingham a few years back and am now a Senior Observer with the Nottingham Trent group. Got my long planned TVR a few months back and am enjoying developing my skills in my first 'proper' sports car.
Ace-T said:
I really love cars and driving and have been thinking about doing advanced driver training for a while now. As the lovely EmmaP has passed her IAM she has inspired me to get my arse into gear and attempt the same.
Ace-T
Hi Tracy,
still waiting for the promised e-mail!! The next Notts Trent course starts on Tues 20th Sept - contact Viv Rees on 0115 972 3972 if you want to put your money where.... Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff