BAD DRIVER or just me?
Discussion
I think Tim's just jealous...I'd say it could have been smoother, probably changed gear less, and given the drivetrain and brakes an easier time.
However, considering you didn't really know the road (i guess), and you were driving to the conditions, which obviously change constantly on a road you don't know, the erratic changes of speed and use of acceleration were clearly justified.
If I try getting my boot down on an unknown road it's probably a bit like that. Odd gear changes, maybe slowing too much, but just being extra safe etc.
Also, a car like that with a revvy engine is gonna have loadsa grip even under full bore throttle, so why not mash it outta the apex?
Nice one!
Dave
However, considering you didn't really know the road (i guess), and you were driving to the conditions, which obviously change constantly on a road you don't know, the erratic changes of speed and use of acceleration were clearly justified.
If I try getting my boot down on an unknown road it's probably a bit like that. Odd gear changes, maybe slowing too much, but just being extra safe etc.
Also, a car like that with a revvy engine is gonna have loadsa grip even under full bore throttle, so why not mash it outta the apex?
Nice one!
Dave
GreenV8 - ah see what you mean. Yeah, that was me plain and simple messing up, I admit that one! I think it boils down to simply trying to get on the power too early.
Regarding the other side of the road; using that video as an example, you'll see that I only go on the other side of the road if you can see everything; the entrance, the corner, and the exit, to where you're going to travel. As such, I can't see how you'd scare someone off the road?
The skills of a police officer demonstrate this perfectly.
Tony
Regarding the other side of the road; using that video as an example, you'll see that I only go on the other side of the road if you can see everything; the entrance, the corner, and the exit, to where you're going to travel. As such, I can't see how you'd scare someone off the road?
The skills of a police officer demonstrate this perfectly.
Tony
Mrs Fish said:
I only use both sides of the road when I can see that nothing is coming and on the ride drive course I did, I was encouraged to use all of the available road.
On using all of the road:
1) I do
2) I only do this where its legal
3) I use it to gain an advantage in terms of view up the road.
Just as I saw Tony doing on the video.
Point to note - if you need to use all the road because you do not have enough grip to stay on your own side then you are a nutter...save this for the track!
Tony was not being a nutter IMO.
The IAM is very careful about advising people to use *all* the road (as I describe) these days. Which is a shame. I tend only to use all the road if there is no-one following. People who haven't been through the training find it disconcerting, flash their lights, sound their horn and generally go a bit bonkers. I assume its because they think that the driver in front is drunk or something...
Was TimW the guy with the armbelt, then? I remember that well
On a serious note; TimW; please respond to this thread! Though you initiated the discussion it was without anything constructive - I'd like to understand why you thought it was bad driving (the gear change 'mid-corner' has been discussed), and why it was that bad it deemed a whole topic.
This won't be a personal attack on you (unlike yours on me), simply the continuation of your post.
Thanks
On a serious note; TimW; please respond to this thread! Though you initiated the discussion it was without anything constructive - I'd like to understand why you thought it was bad driving (the gear change 'mid-corner' has been discussed), and why it was that bad it deemed a whole topic.
This won't be a personal attack on you (unlike yours on me
), simply the continuation of your post. Thanks
GreenV8S said:
I pay the whole road tax so I feel entitled to use the whole road if I want to.
I also wonder if the fixed camera really shows the dynamics of the car and whether it was in a straight line...
Hang on a minute... is TimW old enough to drive..? Would like to see him do any better...
Jeez - aren't there a lot of expert drivers around?
I followed Tony on that road, and to be honest had trouble keeping up with him - that Elise can really handle, and was very well piloted! (Mind you, the Tamora had about 90% of the Elise handling and was an absolute revelation!!)
So, maybe there were a few dodgy gear changes, but it was a tight twisty road, with a lot of bends that tightened after turn in, and many were either up or down slopes (difficult to guage from the video) with poor sight lines. Plus, Tony was also leading at a pretty brisk pace, which is always difficult. When I get a new camcorder I will upload my video of the same stretch, which may help to show how much easier it is to follow rather than lead. I had a ride in Tony's car, and it was obvious that the gearing just didn't match many of the roads we were driving - plus there's not a lot of torque to play with!
Lighten up a bit chaps, it was a fantastic road, a great drive, and a bit of fun. You're all just jealous!
(PS - notice the Armco? This turned out to be part of the Mille Miglia route - so a bit special!)
Also worth noting - Tony is an IAM observer - so not exactly an idiot....
>> Edited by nubbin on Friday 23 September 12:41
I followed Tony on that road, and to be honest had trouble keeping up with him - that Elise can really handle, and was very well piloted! (Mind you, the Tamora had about 90% of the Elise handling and was an absolute revelation!!)
So, maybe there were a few dodgy gear changes, but it was a tight twisty road, with a lot of bends that tightened after turn in, and many were either up or down slopes (difficult to guage from the video) with poor sight lines. Plus, Tony was also leading at a pretty brisk pace, which is always difficult. When I get a new camcorder I will upload my video of the same stretch, which may help to show how much easier it is to follow rather than lead. I had a ride in Tony's car, and it was obvious that the gearing just didn't match many of the roads we were driving - plus there's not a lot of torque to play with!
Lighten up a bit chaps, it was a fantastic road, a great drive, and a bit of fun. You're all just jealous!
(PS - notice the Armco? This turned out to be part of the Mille Miglia route - so a bit special!)
Also worth noting - Tony is an IAM observer - so not exactly an idiot....
>> Edited by nubbin on Friday 23 September 12:41
Trying to be constructive (for a change), there were a couple of occasions where it seemed that you were changing down very late, almost on the way out of the corner, if you decided to accelerate, realized you were in the wrong gear and dropped it down in a hurry. On those occasions the down shift was rather abrupt which may be why so may people have commented on it. Perhaps a downshift on the approach to the corner would have allowed things to flow better on the way out? Obviously with a road this twisty this is going to leave you changing down on a bend sometimes, and if you aren't comfortable doing this smoothly then the approach of negotiating the corner and then sorting the gears out might be less traumatic. But being in the right gear earlier might have made it flow better though.
), there were a couple of occasions where it seemed that you were changing down very late, almost on the way out of the corner, if you decided to accelerate, realized you were in the wrong gear and dropped it down in a hurry. On those occasions the down shift was rather abrupt which may be why so may people have commented on it. Perhaps a downshift on the approach to the corner would have allowed things to flow better on the way out? Obviously with a road this twisty this is going to leave you changing down on a bend sometimes, and if you aren't comfortable doing this smoothly then the approach of negotiating the corner and then sorting the gears out might be less traumatic. But being in the right gear earlier might have made it flow better though.Incidentally, I know that in-car video can give a misleading impression of the driver's throttle control. I've got some in-car video showing me negotiating Chesson's Drift at Lydden in the rain. The back stepped out half a dozen times on the same bend, and from the in-car video it was clear that I was simply mashing the throttle and provoking a massive slide each time. Since I was there, I know that in fact I was barely breathing on the throttle and just waiting for it to bite me - which it did, repeatedly.
I have actually driven with Tony in his Elise and I can verify that he is an excellent driver and is a safe one too. It is difficult, if not impossible to give a full appraisal of this particular piece of driving if you were not actually seeing the road through the driver's eyes.
It is good practice to use the whole road whilst driving, cutting out corners when driving at high speed to reduce the risk of unbalancing of the car and to get a better view of the road ahead. I can't imagine Tony changing down in mid corner though as he is well aware that riding the clutch in a RWD drive car is very risky in this position.
So, he thrashed it. So what? It is his car to choose to drive it hard. I drove my car really hard and gave the gear-box real stick, but I never killed the car and if it needs some fettling, then that is a very low price to pay for having the experience of a lifetime.
The trip was an amazing one and from my point of view and experience, it made me a far better driver and gave me massive confidence in my car and abilities. I don't know my cars limits, I tested them, but still haven't found them. When you know the potential of your car and your driving ability, you can drive like this. Not everyone can, but those who are priviledged should do so and have a bloody good time doing it. That's why we are PistonHeaders and we like driving so much. And I'd like to think that in doing this, none of us put others or ourselves at risk.
I'd just like to add that the Elise is just like a go kart when it comes to handling and it is so unbelievably light. I still find it hard to believe just how much it grips the road. Added to that, it's an amazingly responsive car. It does everything you tell it too. You have to have driven an Elise I think to really criticise its handling or a driver's control and treatment of it.
>> Edited by EmmaP on Friday 23 September 14:04
It is good practice to use the whole road whilst driving, cutting out corners when driving at high speed to reduce the risk of unbalancing of the car and to get a better view of the road ahead. I can't imagine Tony changing down in mid corner though as he is well aware that riding the clutch in a RWD drive car is very risky in this position.
So, he thrashed it. So what? It is his car to choose to drive it hard. I drove my car really hard and gave the gear-box real stick, but I never killed the car and if it needs some fettling, then that is a very low price to pay for having the experience of a lifetime.
The trip was an amazing one and from my point of view and experience, it made me a far better driver and gave me massive confidence in my car and abilities. I don't know my cars limits, I tested them, but still haven't found them. When you know the potential of your car and your driving ability, you can drive like this. Not everyone can, but those who are priviledged should do so and have a bloody good time doing it. That's why we are PistonHeaders and we like driving so much. And I'd like to think that in doing this, none of us put others or ourselves at risk.
I'd just like to add that the Elise is just like a go kart when it comes to handling and it is so unbelievably light. I still find it hard to believe just how much it grips the road. Added to that, it's an amazingly responsive car. It does everything you tell it too. You have to have driven an Elise I think to really criticise its handling or a driver's control and treatment of it.
>> Edited by EmmaP on Friday 23 September 14:04
Tim, sweetheart, I've just seen that you have not passed your driving test yet, so I do not know how you could possibly pass comment. Do your test and then get straight onto an Advanced Driving course. I did earlier this year and I was amazed at the difference it make to my driving. You won't know your born and you'll love your car and driving more than you ever imagined was possible.
I quite enjoyed watching that clip, and failed to see anything wrong.
I've no sound - so can't comment on mid-corner changes, etc, but I can't see anything that I probably wouldn't have done.
If anything it's made me really envious - both of the trip itself and of the car.
As for using both sides of the road ..... I do when and where it's appropriate (not often admittedly).
K
[Note to self: start saving seriously for a proper car]
I've no sound - so can't comment on mid-corner changes, etc, but I can't see anything that I probably wouldn't have done.
If anything it's made me really envious - both of the trip itself and of the car.
As for using both sides of the road ..... I do when and where it's appropriate (not often admittedly).
K
[Note to self: start saving seriously for a proper car]
Oh you better believe it. That car is awesome. Being a fan of American muscle and German coupes, I never would have given one a second thought. They're the most fun you can have with your pants on. And as for Eurohoon, that's another matter. I had the trip of a lifetime. Save up now! Do anything - I even tried selling my mother to fund it You will never have so much fun driving - ever, unless, of course, you are a racing or rally driver. The roads are like nothing you'll ever experience in the UK.
You will never have so much fun driving - ever, unless, of course, you are a racing or rally driver. The roads are like nothing you'll ever experience in the UK.GreenV8S said:
Trying to be constructive (for a change
Peter, the road was very twisty on on occasions I found myself slowing mid bend as things were getting tighter than anticipated.
Don said:
Point to note - if you need to use all the road because you do not have enough grip to stay on your own side then you are a nutter...save this for the track!
That was the point I was trying to make, the only benefit I can see about using the whole of the road is getting into a better position to take a corner at high speed, or on exiting a corner at high speed. Both in my opinion silly things to do on a public highway, unless you can clearly see the road ahead. If you're going that hard into a corner, and something is round it, you die, or they die or you both die.
I have no problems with the driving as I am guessing this was an unknown piece of road, and therefore you can't be expected to know the correct gear to be in, in every corner. All the others criticising, how many GP's did you win?
Just like to raise a point to people reading that we are not just boy racers
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