IAM Observed Run
Discussion
I'm a car mad lady who has just started her IAM course (via the 'Skills for Life'). I'm absolutely loving it, not least as there seem to be far more gentlemen than ladies on the course! We've had the introductory meeting, and I've been out with an Observer for a couple of runs.
During the drive, my Observer keeps quiet, although he offers a few words of encouragement. He doesn't talk me through things. While I appreciate that these are not lessons as such, I'm surprised that he is not more vocal during the drive. At the end, he then talks me through a few things I've done, both good and bad.
Is this normal? I don't particularly want to raise it with him, as I'm a bit backwards in coming forwards, it's only my first couple of drives, and he is the 'expert' after all. He is actually a Senior Observer, and I'm sure he has done this many times before. Am I being unduly worried.
If any one can put my mind at ease and recommend the best course of action I would be most grateful, as I fully appreciate his time and effort, and if this is normal, I am more than happy to continue as is.
During the drive, my Observer keeps quiet, although he offers a few words of encouragement. He doesn't talk me through things. While I appreciate that these are not lessons as such, I'm surprised that he is not more vocal during the drive. At the end, he then talks me through a few things I've done, both good and bad.
Is this normal? I don't particularly want to raise it with him, as I'm a bit backwards in coming forwards, it's only my first couple of drives, and he is the 'expert' after all. He is actually a Senior Observer, and I'm sure he has done this many times before. Am I being unduly worried.
If any one can put my mind at ease and recommend the best course of action I would be most grateful, as I fully appreciate his time and effort, and if this is normal, I am more than happy to continue as is.
The drive is for your benefit, what do you want? If you think that you need help improving a particular manoeuvre then say "after I have done one can we stop and talk about it?" It can be distracting for a beginner to try out the things they now know they should be doing without having someone talking in their ear. If the observer thinks you are getting more from the drive by saying what you want then I am sure they will believe that is was more worthwhile.
>> Edited by softtop on Sunday 22 January 20:15
>> Edited by softtop on Sunday 22 January 20:15
>> Edited by softtop on Sunday 22 January 20:15
>> Edited by softtop on Sunday 22 January 20:15
Thank you (I think).
My real concern was that I've just started the course. So I don't really know what I should be doing yet, but it appears that I'm expected to be doing it. When I do a manouvre, he hasn't said exactly what I should do, and whether or not I'm doing it correctly or not. The other day (I'm fortunate that I can go out through the week, rather than a weekend) we started to concentrate on 'The System', but he didn't take me through it, although to be fair he did ask if I knew what it was, and I believe that I gave a good answer. I was quite pleased, as I know mainly what it is as I've studied the handbook in considerable detail, the one sent with the 'Skills for Life' (I tend to sit at home of an evening, reading). However, he hasn't talked me through it, step by step, and I don't know if I'm doing it correctly or not at each hazard. I was hoping he would say use the mirrors now, take up that road position, slow down, change now, etc, but he doesn't.
However, I take your point, and having read your response my initial question now seems a bit foolish. The drive is for my benefit, so I need to decide what I want.
Best regards, and thank you for your comments.
My real concern was that I've just started the course. So I don't really know what I should be doing yet, but it appears that I'm expected to be doing it. When I do a manouvre, he hasn't said exactly what I should do, and whether or not I'm doing it correctly or not. The other day (I'm fortunate that I can go out through the week, rather than a weekend) we started to concentrate on 'The System', but he didn't take me through it, although to be fair he did ask if I knew what it was, and I believe that I gave a good answer. I was quite pleased, as I know mainly what it is as I've studied the handbook in considerable detail, the one sent with the 'Skills for Life' (I tend to sit at home of an evening, reading). However, he hasn't talked me through it, step by step, and I don't know if I'm doing it correctly or not at each hazard. I was hoping he would say use the mirrors now, take up that road position, slow down, change now, etc, but he doesn't.
However, I take your point, and having read your response my initial question now seems a bit foolish. The drive is for my benefit, so I need to decide what I want.
Best regards, and thank you for your comments.
Well I don't know how you are supposed to get it right if he's just sitting watching.
I used to find quiet bits of road and talk the driver through the system a step at a time at slow speeds, and then gradually up to normal road speeds. I found it easier to get the system right and then work on the timing, rather than try to rush through it and try to include more of the system's features each time.
Maybe it's just me, but my main problem as an observer was that I wouldn't shut up - I had to force myself, to let the driver "get in the groove" - maybe that's what he thinks he's doing - allowing you to concentrate without distraction. I would suggest you tell him you could do with more feedback as you go, and see what he says.
I used to find quiet bits of road and talk the driver through the system a step at a time at slow speeds, and then gradually up to normal road speeds. I found it easier to get the system right and then work on the timing, rather than try to rush through it and try to include more of the system's features each time.
Maybe it's just me, but my main problem as an observer was that I wouldn't shut up - I had to force myself, to let the driver "get in the groove" - maybe that's what he thinks he's doing - allowing you to concentrate without distraction. I would suggest you tell him you could do with more feedback as you go, and see what he says.
Tricky one really. I would not want an Observer talking too much as that could be off putting. However, I think that having positive encouragement is very important, when appropriate, and also pointing out where you could perhaps have improved your driving - after all that is what you are there for. I personally would advocate a break half way through the drive so that feedback may be given, so that you can then complete the drive striving to improve on and practice what has been highlighted as needing improvement.
Each individual is different and responds differently to instruction methods . I would, as an Observer, personally welcome feedback. I am sure that your Observer won't mind you voicing any concerns.
Each individual is different and responds differently to instruction methods . I would, as an Observer, personally welcome feedback. I am sure that your Observer won't mind you voicing any concerns.
Lady Godiva said:
He doesn't talk me through things.
Perhaps you are doing everything just right
Seriously though, ask him/her, to talk you through something you find particularly difficult or want explained in more detail, maybe they think they are doing what you'd prefer.
As an adviser I would work on talk through, ie telling you exactly what to do, prompt you, ie prompt when needed, but talking less than talk through, then finally release, you're on your own.
What kind of feedback are you getting back at the end of the drive?
Are you getting lots of comments? or just the occasional reference to something that's happened.
My own Observer would let something happen and then immediately after it question me on why I did/not do whatever it was.
I also think it's important that they do talk to you as you are driving ...... as this is what happens in the real world - with your friends/family/etc in the car. You should be able to show that you can still concentrate on what you are doing on the road - not the conversation.
On occasions my Observer would [deliberately] ask me a personal question at just a moment when I was about to notice a sign/car/person/etc - and then immediately after would ask me why I missed it or did react accordingly sooner ..... Excellent practice.
But at the end of the day - as SoftTop says - it's for your benefit - your money - your test - so you should be getting the most from it.
I'm not an Observer - so can't comment from that perspective - but I'd guess that he does not want a fail on his books - so I assume he's doing what he's comfortable it. Plenty of Oberservers on here who can provide more specific advice.
K
Are you getting lots of comments? or just the occasional reference to something that's happened.
My own Observer would let something happen and then immediately after it question me on why I did/not do whatever it was.
I also think it's important that they do talk to you as you are driving ...... as this is what happens in the real world - with your friends/family/etc in the car. You should be able to show that you can still concentrate on what you are doing on the road - not the conversation.
On occasions my Observer would [deliberately] ask me a personal question at just a moment when I was about to notice a sign/car/person/etc - and then immediately after would ask me why I missed it or did react accordingly sooner ..... Excellent practice.
But at the end of the day - as SoftTop says - it's for your benefit - your money - your test - so you should be getting the most from it.
I'm not an Observer - so can't comment from that perspective - but I'd guess that he does not want a fail on his books - so I assume he's doing what he's comfortable it. Plenty of Oberservers on here who can provide more specific advice.
K
Thank you to everyone for your helpful comments. The more I think about this, the more confused I am as to exactly what I should be expecting.
Is the intention of an observed run to review what the Associate should have learned themselves from previous study. Or is it to teach an Associate something they may not know.
For example, if we are concentrating on 'The System' and we approach a corner. Would you expect the Observer to start (from the very first corner ever done) with comments such as "take up this position", "now check the mirrors", " start to change speed", "2nd gear may be appropriate" i.e. assume no knowledge and start to teach. Or would it be more normal for the Observer to just see what happens without saying anything either approaching, going through, or accelerating away from the hazard i.e. assume the Associate has learned what to do from the book, and make few if any comments.
I think my main problem is that I'm afraid of appearing foolish by asking.
By the way, my son has recommended this site, as he seems to find it highly amusing that I am interested in cars, and in driving (I can only assume that he thinks Mothers only do knitting and cooking). However, if there is a more appropriate site or forum, please let me know.
Is the intention of an observed run to review what the Associate should have learned themselves from previous study. Or is it to teach an Associate something they may not know.
For example, if we are concentrating on 'The System' and we approach a corner. Would you expect the Observer to start (from the very first corner ever done) with comments such as "take up this position", "now check the mirrors", " start to change speed", "2nd gear may be appropriate" i.e. assume no knowledge and start to teach. Or would it be more normal for the Observer to just see what happens without saying anything either approaching, going through, or accelerating away from the hazard i.e. assume the Associate has learned what to do from the book, and make few if any comments.
I think my main problem is that I'm afraid of appearing foolish by asking.
By the way, my son has recommended this site, as he seems to find it highly amusing that I am interested in cars, and in driving (I can only assume that he thinks Mothers only do knitting and cooking). However, if there is a more appropriate site or forum, please let me know.
Lady Godiva said:
my son...seems to find it highly amusing that I am interested in cars...he thinks Mothers only do knitting and cooking).
And don't forget washing his socks
You have certainly come to the right place for advice.
I passed my test in July and am in the process of training to be an Observer. My lesson on the system was actually Observed by another PHer. I was truly awful. As far as I recall I attempted to put the system into practice from what I had understood from the course book and reading 'Roadcraft'. I did not do it too well, so Nick gave me feedback straight away on what I could and should have done to improve me putting it into practice. We then spent the rest of the drive practicing it. The rest of the group found it amusing that our drive out lasted three hours. Good job I had a full tank
I think that for you to benefit you need to be talked through what it is that you are practicing that day (assuming of course that you have read up before the drive) and ways that your technique and method could be improved given through direction from the Observer. Please do not feel stupid for asking questions. I have been lecturing for over eleven years and I love being asked questions. It shows that you are thinking about what you are doing at it makes for an interesting discussion. Nothing annoys me more than a student keeping quiet and feeling too embarrassed to ask questions. So, please do not feel foolish
>> Edited by EmmaP on Monday 23 January 13:02
I'm in the same position as EmmaP (passed test in November and now training to be an observer). I agree with everything Emma says, and would add that the amount of input different observers give can vary quite a lot depending on their individual style. You need to make sure you're getting the feedback you want, and I don't think I've met an observer that won't tailor their feedback to your request. Oh, and don't feel foolish for asking any questions
Lady Godiva said:
For example, if we are concentrating on 'The System' and we approach a corner. Would you expect the Observer to start (from the very first corner ever done) with comments such as "take up this position", "now check the mirrors", " start to change speed", "2nd gear may be appropriate" i.e. assume no knowledge and start to teach. Or would it be more normal for the Observer to just see what happens without saying anything either approaching, going through, or accelerating away from the hazard i.e. assume the Associate has learned what to do from the book, and make few if any comments.
You must remember that the system is not hard to do in component parts, you do all of the actions since you passed your test. Therefore the observer will see how you go first and then comment. A good tip that I suggest is to talk through what you are doing. For example, I have checked the mirrors, know whats coming etc, getting into position, braking now, I am off the brakes, going to change gear. round the bend
If you say it out loud it helps with your own planning and stops you braking and changing gear since you know you cant change gear until you have said "off the brakes"
I was an observer for years (don't do it now).
In my view, it is not you who should be asking "what should I expect?" Your observer should be asking YOU. If you want to concentrate and then talk over the drive at the end, then fine. Personally I think that would be better for an Associate towards test time. If you want to be led through, say, the system step by step, then that is what you should get - certainly in the early stages. Learning the theory of what the system components are, is one thing - learning how to put them in practice, the timing on the road etc, is quite another - and you should be getting that shown to you, at the very least.
Your Observer, if he is any good, should be able to talk you through, or demonstrate, any of the techniques you need to pass, at any time.
In my view, it is not you who should be asking "what should I expect?" Your observer should be asking YOU. If you want to concentrate and then talk over the drive at the end, then fine. Personally I think that would be better for an Associate towards test time. If you want to be led through, say, the system step by step, then that is what you should get - certainly in the early stages. Learning the theory of what the system components are, is one thing - learning how to put them in practice, the timing on the road etc, is quite another - and you should be getting that shown to you, at the very least.
Your Observer, if he is any good, should be able to talk you through, or demonstrate, any of the techniques you need to pass, at any time.
tvrgit said:
I was an observer for years (don't do it now).
Likewise.
tvrgit said:
Your Observer, if he is any good, should be able to talk you through, or demonstrate, any of the techniques you need to pass, at any time.
Couldn't agree more. Demonstration, whether by talking you through or showing you himself is a very important teaching tool. A five minute demonstration can get across more information than an hour of description. The teaching/learning experience MUST, above all, be a two way process.
mefoster said:
The teaching/learning experience MUST, above all, be a two way process.
Yes indeed, I hope that is the way it generally works.
As yet there has been no action following my signing up as an Associate on 17 January. I wonder if somebody has already decided they don't like the look of me, and they've just legged it with the readies!
Best wishes all,
Dave.
mph999 said:
There's a bit of the road traffic act which forbids anyone teaching unless they are an approved instructor.
Is there? Where? I think there's something about advertising yourself an instructor, or taking money for teaching, but nothing against teaching per se.
In any case, IAM Observers don't take money. Neither does the IAM - you are not charged for lessons, you pay a subscription and the lessons are free. The car is at all times under the control of the associate - they are being observed and advised. That advice can happen during the drive or at the end.
Actually the admonishment in the Road Traffic Act is that nobody is allowed to take 'money or money's worth' for providing instruction in driving a motor vehicle, unless they are a qualified ADI or demonstrating a car for the motor trade or a civilian instructing for police purposes. The IAM and RoADA (or whatever it's being called this week) observers don't get any fees and can therefore give as much or as little instruction as they like.
There's probably also a grey area for advanced instruction - if you're only providing 'advice' rather than 'instruction' then you can possibly get paid for the privilege without benefit of the badge, but I wouldn't want to be the person used as a test case and thus lose my livelihood. Hence I have an ADI and had to go through the whole sorry saga of proving I could teach novices.
There's probably also a grey area for advanced instruction - if you're only providing 'advice' rather than 'instruction' then you can possibly get paid for the privilege without benefit of the badge, but I wouldn't want to be the person used as a test case and thus lose my livelihood. Hence I have an ADI and had to go through the whole sorry saga of proving I could teach novices.
StressedDave said:
Actually the admonishment in the Road Traffic Act is that nobody is allowed to take 'money or money's worth' for providing instruction in driving a motor vehicle, unless they are a qualified ADI or demonstrating a car for the motor trade or a civilian instructing for police purposes. The IAM and RoADA (or whatever it's being called this week) observers don't get any fees and can therefore give as much or as little instruction as they like.
There's probably also a grey area for advanced instruction - if you're only providing 'advice' rather than 'instruction' then you can possibly get paid for the privilege without benefit of the badge, but I wouldn't want to be the person used as a test case and thus lose my livelihood. Hence I have an ADI and had to go through the whole sorry saga of proving I could teach novices.
So do Ride Drive's Class 1s do an ADI qualification, do you know?
I have thought about getting ADI...but since it would be seriously part time for me I'm not sure I could do enough paid instruction in the year to pay for maintaining it.
I'm happy to be corrected by Julian, but I believe not all of them have had an ADI in the past, and this may still be the case. Of course, having an ADI is no indication of the quality of the instruction you are going to receive - a case in point is the Diamond 'Advanced' test which is a direct duplicate of the ADI part 2. Both are similar to the standard novice test with fewer mistakes permitted and more manoeuvres included.
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