IAM Observed Run
Discussion
StressedDave said:
Of course, having an ADI is no indication of the quality of the instruction you are going to receive
Absolutely not. I was just interested as to whether or not it was necessary for insurance/legality purposes. If you've needed to do it I wondered if the majority of "Advanced Driving Instruction" suppliers needed to do it, too.
Thank you to everyone for your comments.
Having thought about my runs to date, I think that the main problem is that I've had hardly any feedback at all, whether during the drive or immediately afterwards.
When we started to do 'the system', I think it's probably fair to say that it is unlikely I did it correctly everytime. I accept that, as I am supposed to be learninig. After I accelerated away from the very first corner, I expected a comment, but there wasn't one. Second corner, still no comment. So , I didn't know if I was doing it correctly or not. Did I signal in time. Did I slow down enough. Was the gear correct. I have no idea, as there was no comment whatsoever. At the end of the run, he didn't say they were all good, or all bad, or some good, he didn't comment on them at all.
Similarly with the positioning on the road. No comment. Also, we've not mentioned 'observation' yet (which has surprised me somewhat) or 'the driving plan' but now I'm worried that he won't tell me what to look out for.
The main confusion for me is that I appreciate that I am a 'learner', and that he is a very experienced observer. Considering that I fully appreciate his knowledge and experience, how can I feel that I'm not being told anything. It must be me, I'm just not sure why or how.
I am genuinely getting more confused, and starting to wish I hadn't done this. Just to emphasise my total confusion, I cannot practice between the runs, as I do not know what I am doing right, and what I am doing wrong. The more I think about it, the more I think I may become a drop out ( and wouldn't my husband just love that!!!).
Sorry for going on so, but I need to think about how best to proceed.
Having thought about my runs to date, I think that the main problem is that I've had hardly any feedback at all, whether during the drive or immediately afterwards.
When we started to do 'the system', I think it's probably fair to say that it is unlikely I did it correctly everytime. I accept that, as I am supposed to be learninig. After I accelerated away from the very first corner, I expected a comment, but there wasn't one. Second corner, still no comment. So , I didn't know if I was doing it correctly or not. Did I signal in time. Did I slow down enough. Was the gear correct. I have no idea, as there was no comment whatsoever. At the end of the run, he didn't say they were all good, or all bad, or some good, he didn't comment on them at all.
Similarly with the positioning on the road. No comment. Also, we've not mentioned 'observation' yet (which has surprised me somewhat) or 'the driving plan' but now I'm worried that he won't tell me what to look out for.
The main confusion for me is that I appreciate that I am a 'learner', and that he is a very experienced observer. Considering that I fully appreciate his knowledge and experience, how can I feel that I'm not being told anything. It must be me, I'm just not sure why or how.
I am genuinely getting more confused, and starting to wish I hadn't done this. Just to emphasise my total confusion, I cannot practice between the runs, as I do not know what I am doing right, and what I am doing wrong. The more I think about it, the more I think I may become a drop out ( and wouldn't my husband just love that!!!).
Sorry for going on so, but I need to think about how best to proceed.
Lady Godiva said:
I am genuinely getting more confused, and starting to wish I hadn't done this. Just to emphasise my total confusion, I cannot practice between the runs, as I do not know what I am doing right, and what I am doing wrong. The more I think about it, the more I think I may become a drop out ( and wouldn't my husband just love that!!!).
Sorry for going on so, but I need to think about how best to proceed.
Here's my take on it.
Before you get going on your next run ask your Observer for immediate feedback. Say you want to know right there and then whilst you remember what you just did if you did something right or wrong. Ask your Observer to do that.
I have found some Associates prefer to be left alone to concentrate and then recieve a comment at the end. I have also found some people, especially if they need their confidence building or are struggling to pick up something, do much better with, and prefer, continual immediate coaching.
Sounds to me that the latter one is what you'd like. Don't be afraid to ask for it. If your Observer can't help you then I suggest asking him/her if they could arrange for you to get some Observed runs with someone whose coaching style woule better suit your personality. Give your current Observer a chance on a couple more runs, though, as most can adapt to whatever is necessary.
Most IAM Groups are capable of arranging a different Observer. A few can't - but most can so ASK and you may well recieve if it comes to that.
All the best...and DON'T give up! You *will* pass if you want to!
Don said:
Exactly what my advice would be
(and some of which I said earlier)
Don't give up - you sound like you know what you want to get out of this so tell the group what you want.
There is NO POINT in wasting your time on an hour's observed drive and getting NO feedback - as you say, how are you supposed to know what to practice in between?
I would agree with the previous posts that have suggested asking for a new observer.
And if you can take up the offer of a drive with Don, then do - from his previous posts on here, he knows what he's talking about (either that or we're both totally wrong!
) I would offer as well if you were in this area but I'm not an IAM member any more, so I'm not "approved".Have you checked to see if your Observer has a tongue in his head? 
Seriously, it makes me feel quite sad to read your latest comments. It must be so disappointing for you as you sound so very eager to learn. I agree with what everyone else has said and suggest that having a chat with him prior to your next drive is the best policy. If you are still not satisfied with their level of input then you should request another Observer. You are clearly not getting enough out of these drives if it leaves you not knowing what you should be practicing.
Seriously, it makes me feel quite sad to read your latest comments. It must be so disappointing for you as you sound so very eager to learn. I agree with what everyone else has said and suggest that having a chat with him prior to your next drive is the best policy. If you are still not satisfied with their level of input then you should request another Observer. You are clearly not getting enough out of these drives if it leaves you not knowing what you should be practicing.
Lady Godiva said:
Sorry for going on so, but I need to think about how best to proceed.
If you have the same observer for all of your lessons then say to the chief observer that you want to change observer, outline your reasons if you want to, or say it is a timing thing, wrong day wrong time etc, if you dont want to.
I was sad to read this post from Lady G. Unfortunately, I had a similar experience of confusion with my first IAM Observer. As I later became was very involved with the IAM, I hope these few suggestions will be helpful.
When driving, you should strive for the following four S's:
- It should be Systematic. For a good explanation of the System, you can read Roadcraft and/or watch the Roadcraft DVD.
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0113408587/qid=
- It should be Safe. Obviously! (Again, see Roadcraft for this.)
- It should be Smooth. Really, really ultra-smooth. Being smooth can reduce your chances of crashing (smoothness and grip are related), reduces wear and tear on your vehicle, improves passenger comfort and so on. This means imperceptible gear changes, no discernable start or stop to steering/braking/accelerating, etc. Strive to avoid even the slightest jerk when using vehicle controls.
- Appropriate speed. This means you should be legal, but make as much headway as you can without sacrificing any of the above. You should make safe, swift, unobtrusive progress. An advanced drive can often be a brisk drive. (Although making progress is obviously a lower priority than safety, smoothness or being systematic.)
Of course, none of us ever manages a perfect drive - certainly not me!! So don't worry overly about imperfections. Good luck and enjoy your driving!
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Tuesday 24th January 19:55
When driving, you should strive for the following four S's:
- It should be Systematic. For a good explanation of the System, you can read Roadcraft and/or watch the Roadcraft DVD.
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0113408587/qid=
- It should be Safe. Obviously! (Again, see Roadcraft for this.)
- It should be Smooth. Really, really ultra-smooth. Being smooth can reduce your chances of crashing (smoothness and grip are related), reduces wear and tear on your vehicle, improves passenger comfort and so on. This means imperceptible gear changes, no discernable start or stop to steering/braking/accelerating, etc. Strive to avoid even the slightest jerk when using vehicle controls.
- Appropriate speed. This means you should be legal, but make as much headway as you can without sacrificing any of the above. You should make safe, swift, unobtrusive progress. An advanced drive can often be a brisk drive. (Although making progress is obviously a lower priority than safety, smoothness or being systematic.)
Of course, none of us ever manages a perfect drive - certainly not me!! So don't worry overly about imperfections. Good luck and enjoy your driving!
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Tuesday 24th January 19:55
Dropped into this thread a bit late, but I agree with most of what has already been said - it is important to set out these concerns before you turn the key at the start of the next run. It may be that he is attempting to increase your confidence by not criticising minor errors. If you set out your expectations on feedback and that you are comfortable with that, then hopefully the service will improve. If not, ask the group for a check-ride with a different observer - most groups will accomodate such requests if you explain your concerns.
Interestingly, I had a similar situation with a RideDrive instructor - but when I insisted he be VERY PICKY on the run back from Bruntingthorpe, then came the useful feedback.
Another point to remember is that all observers are human (even senior observers
) and sadly many are not overly practiced in coaching skills in addition to driving. I probably cross the line into instruction more than IAM guidelines could be interpreted as suggesting, but my Chief Observer, and the regional Chief Examiner are ok with that, so it works for me.
We all develop our own styles and things we concentrate on - that's why our group sends associates out with a different observers each session - you then get the benefit of several different people's styles and opinions.
Good luck & stick with it - same offer as Don, if you are in the East Mids, shout up.
Interestingly, I had a similar situation with a RideDrive instructor - but when I insisted he be VERY PICKY on the run back from Bruntingthorpe, then came the useful feedback.
Another point to remember is that all observers are human (even senior observers
) and sadly many are not overly practiced in coaching skills in addition to driving. I probably cross the line into instruction more than IAM guidelines could be interpreted as suggesting, but my Chief Observer, and the regional Chief Examiner are ok with that, so it works for me. We all develop our own styles and things we concentrate on - that's why our group sends associates out with a different observers each session - you then get the benefit of several different people's styles and opinions.
Good luck & stick with it - same offer as Don, if you are in the East Mids, shout up.
Mark_SV said:
When driving, you should strive for the following four S's:
- It should be Systematic. For a good explanation of the System, you can read Roadcraft and/or watch the Roadcraft DVD.
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0113408587/qid=
- It should be Safe. Obviously! (Again, see Roadcraft for this.)
- It should be Smooth. Really, really ultra-smooth. Being smooth can reduce your chances of crashing (smoothness and grip are related), reduces wear and tear on your vehicle, improves passenger comfort and so on. This means imperceptible gear changes, no discernable start or stop to steering/braking/accelerating, etc. Strive to avoid even the slightest jerk when using vehicle controls.
- Appropriate speed. This means you should be legal, but make as much headway as you can without sacrificing any of the above. You should make safe, swift, unobtrusive progress. An advanced drive can often be a brisk drive.
Hope you don't mind a little re-ordering here Mark
Safe
Systematic
Smooth
Speed
Remebering you can always sacrifice the one above, but never the one below, ie we can sacrifice system for safety, smoothness for system, speed for any of them etc.
tvrgit said:
There's a bit of the road traffic act which forbids anyone teaching unless they are an approved instructor.
Is there? Where? I think there's something about advertising yourself an instructor, or taking money for teaching, but nothing against teaching per se.
In any case, IAM Observers don't take money. Neither does the IAM - you are not charged for lessons, you pay a subscription and the lessons are free. The car is at all times under the control of the associate - they are being observed and advised. That advice can happen during the drive or at the end.
Yep, you're right, my mistake ...
Thank you to everyone for their kind comments. I have taken everything on board, which I can assure you has been most helpful.
I have decided that before the run starts, I am going to ask my Observer to give me feedback on each occasion during the run. For example, each time I turn a corner, I would like to know if the system is being performed correctly. If it is, then fine. If not, then I immediately know what to change.
The more I think about it, the more I realise that the problem is quite simple. During the last run I must have used 'the system' to go past or through a hazard on 100 occasions (turning a corner, overtaking parked cars, stopping at lights, etc). At no time did the observer comment, therefore I left the run and drove back home not knowing if I did them all correctly (pat on the back for me) or did them all incorrectly (more study and practice required).
I'm sure if I explain this to the Observer, everything should be okay, so I am going to do this. If not, I am going to ask for a different observer, as it cannot be correct to have no feedback whatsoever. Talking it through with everyone helped me to put it into perspective, so thank you again.
Kindest Regards
Sally
P.S my husband and son both warned me that this Internet site occasionally gets 'fractious', and I was to expect rather caustic comments. I can honestly say I have not seen that at all, and I am most impressed with the advice freely given.
I have decided that before the run starts, I am going to ask my Observer to give me feedback on each occasion during the run. For example, each time I turn a corner, I would like to know if the system is being performed correctly. If it is, then fine. If not, then I immediately know what to change.
The more I think about it, the more I realise that the problem is quite simple. During the last run I must have used 'the system' to go past or through a hazard on 100 occasions (turning a corner, overtaking parked cars, stopping at lights, etc). At no time did the observer comment, therefore I left the run and drove back home not knowing if I did them all correctly (pat on the back for me) or did them all incorrectly (more study and practice required).
I'm sure if I explain this to the Observer, everything should be okay, so I am going to do this. If not, I am going to ask for a different observer, as it cannot be correct to have no feedback whatsoever. Talking it through with everyone helped me to put it into perspective, so thank you again.
Kindest Regards
Sally
P.S my husband and son both warned me that this Internet site occasionally gets 'fractious', and I was to expect rather caustic comments. I can honestly say I have not seen that at all, and I am most impressed with the advice freely given.
omegac said:
Hope you don't mind a little re-ordering here Mark
Safe
Systematic
Smooth
Speed
Remembering you can always sacrifice the one above, but never the one below, ie we can sacrifice system for safety, smoothness for system, speed for any of them etc.
Oh dear, have I got it all back to front?
Best wishes all,
Dave - alias QuadrupleS.
omegac said:
Oh dear, have I got it all back to front?
Sorry not sure what you mean? I was just re-ordering the priority of the four S's to how they should be.
Well I adopted my name of TripleS to denote Swift, Smooth, Safe - I didn't identify the systematic bit. I'm not really too bothered about the order in which they are shown, as long as they are all present and correct.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
I'm not really too bothered about the order in which they are shown, as long as they are all present and correct.
Ok, I understand now. But surely you don't expect someone to demonstrate "swift" before safe? I just thought that if someone is being told about the four S's, they should know the priority of them.
Of course you could argue, as one IAM Regional Examiner has, that the System comes before safety - because sound application of the System will keep you safe. 
Hi Sally - As Emma says, seems like a good plan. Though don't hesitate to come back to this Forum for further info. Good luck and enjoy your IAM course!
Tweeds don't keep you very warm on a bike in January Although How to be an Advanced Rider is so out of date 
that it advocates waxed jackets Not known for their abrasion resistance I only hope that the IAM updates its books, or goes back to recommending Roadcraft, as part of its 50th anniversary activities.
EmmaP said:
Good luck with your next run Sally! It sounds like you have a very fair and reasonable plan and some top suggestions to make.
Hi Sally - As Emma says, seems like a good plan. Though don't hesitate to come back to this Forum for further info. Good luck and enjoy your IAM course!
EmmaP said:
And I haven't come across any nastiness on any IAM threads. It must be the calming effect of our wool cardigans and tweed
Tweeds don't keep you very warm on a bike in January
Although How to be an Advanced Rider is so out of date that it advocates waxed jackets Not known for their abrasion resistance I only hope that the IAM updates its books, or goes back to recommending Roadcraft, as part of its 50th anniversary activities.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff