possible to recreate AJP V12?

[ps1 and swordfish]

after months of research and finding nothing, i come here to ask. even though an LS is lighter, cheaper, more reliable, blahblahblah, i don't wanna hear it. if you've ever driven a V12 car, you know nothing else feels like it. this got me thinking, is it possible to recreate the infamous TVR V12 engine? sure, other motors from AM, Mercedes, etc could be swapped in by modding the chassis, but i'm asking about the TVR V12 specifically. i did hear about someone trying to graft Speed Six heads to a Jag V12 block but couldn't find anything further on it. Or maybe there's another block the TVR heads could be attached to? or, would it really be that hard to try to sandcast a new block based on the Speed Six or Speed Twelve? could cost a million, just dreaming/wondering

[Caddyshack]

Anything is possible with enough money, time and momentum.

In reality it’s a folly as there are good v12’s out there with the hard work done for you. I would guess Ferrari, Lambo or Mercedes as a few obvious ones.

[phillpot]

Plenty of much better ways to throw your money away

[ps1 and swordfish]

"sure, other motors from AM, Mercedes, etc could be swapped in by modding the chassis, but i'm asking about the TVR V12 specifically."

"could cost a million, just dreaming/wondering"

any engineering knowledge or rumors of something like this being attempted? either sandcasting a block based on TVR plans or attaching Speed 6 heads to a Jaguar V12 block or any other block with similar bore spacing?

[glow worm]

Have a look at what Helical have done
https://www.helical-technology.com/rd/supercar-pro...

https://www.tr-supercars.com/

Ex TVR employees work, comes in a cool £1Million each

Edited by glow worm on Thursday 6th January 21:07

[LucyP]

You need to post on the Cerbera forum. You need to track down Graham Abbott. He posts/used to post on here and has/had two Cerbera Speed Twelves. Maybe he could help you with an engine to look at, or contact John Ravenscroft, maybe you could persuade him to build one again.

Do you have a Speed Twelve or a Cerbera Speed Twelve to put it in?

Search Facebook for @officialspeed12 or search for W112 BHG or W312 BFV

I think that is Graham Abbott's page and his contact details are on there. I suspect he knows more about the Speed 12 engine than most people.

[MikeE]

The Speed 12 wasn't a cast block, it was fabricated by welding steel sections together as I presume that was cheaper and quicker than trying to design and manufacture the casting bucks etc

[Oldwolf]

glow worm said:

Have a look at what Helical have done
https://www.helical-technology.com/rd/supercar-pro...

https://www.tr-supercars.com/

Ex TVR employees work, comes in a cool £1Million each

Edited by glow worm on Thursday 6th January 21:07

1021bhp! I cannot imagine what that's like in a TVR. It's insane in a very good way.

[Caddyshack]

With enough money I expect someone like smith and jones could scan an original engine and then machine a billet block for you. A Cosworth Head and Block in ally is about £14k IIRC (the head being about £4k of that) They are supposed to be good for 1000hp and save over 25kg on the block alone.

[MikeE]

Another option is to join the Al Melling facebook group and ask his views on remanufacting the V12.

[ps1 and swordfish]

as cool as the Helical car is, it uses an Aston Martin engine... i'm looking at the feasibility of recreating/casting/milling the AJP12 TVR V12. Or, at least something close like bolting the Speed Six heads onto a Jaguar block. Anyone know if the Speed 6 heads could potentially work on the Jag block? Or any other V12 block for that matter?

[glow worm]

ps1 and swordfish said:

as cool as the Helical car is, it uses an Aston Martin engine... i'm looking at the feasibility of recreating/casting/milling the AJP12 TVR V12. Or, at least something close like bolting the Speed Six heads onto a Jaguar block. Anyone know if the Speed 6 heads could potentially work on the Jag block? Or any other V12 block for that matter?

Mike Vernon at Helical would be a good contact or Brian Hosfield at the new Surface & Design (with Graham Abbott) ... they looked after the Speed 12 for Peter Wheeller.

[NMNeil]

MikeE said:

Another option is to join the Al Melling facebook group and ask his views on remanufacting the V12.

How about Alan Millyard.
He's created some wonderful off beat engines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnXUx4cYdHA

[Caddyshack]

The tread has answered the query though. Yes it would work with enough time, money and effort.

[ps1 and swordfish]

i'm still curious if the Speed 6 heads could bolt onto an existing V12 block..

honestly, the TVR community is so tenacious with firms like Str8Six engine work, SportMotive creating new/improved chassis, various shops making whole new bodies, Helical.. that i think it won't be long before the community starts casting/milling new AJP6 & AJP8 engines. At that point, the possibility of an economically attainable AJP12 crate engine could become very real. that'd be a wet-dream come true

[Caddyshack]

ps1 and swordfish said:

i'm still curious if the Speed 6 heads could bolt onto an existing V12 block..

honestly, the TVR community is so tenacious with firms like Str8Six engine work, SportMotive creating new/improved chassis, various shops making whole new bodies, Helical.. that i think it won't be long before the community starts casting/milling new AJP6 & AJP8 engines. At that point, the possibility of an economically attainable AJP12 crate engine could become very real. that'd be a wet-dream come true

Pretty sure the 12 was 2 speed six engines on a v12 block so they would have used the speed 6 heads, I doubt tvr / engine builder would have had the resource to use any other heads.

[eliot]

what’s so special about the speed6 heads that you would go to the trouble of trying to make a v12 block to use them over it’s contemporaries from Jag,Merc and BMW?

[ps1 and swordfish]

eliot said:

what’s so special about the speed6 heads that you would go to the trouble of trying to make a v12 block to use them over it’s contemporaries from Jag,Merc and BMW?

nothing is special, except trying to keep it in "the family". i believe i did hear about someone, maybe it was Race Prooved or Racing Green that attempted to slap some Speed 6 heads on a Jaguar V12 block but i wasn't able to find any other info on this

[Caddyshack]

eliot said:

what’s so special about the speed6 heads that you would go to the trouble of trying to make a v12 block to use them over it’s contemporaries from Jag,Merc and BMW?

I get keeping it in the family although (as en ex Cerbera owner) I think the LS engine would have been much better and would still like one with that in it. The speed six head was part of a well breathing engine, I think they are fairly close to 100bhp per litre (although tvr quoted figures were bs) the speed 12 was reputed to be around 1000hp, most main manufacturer v12 engines were under 500hp from 5+ litres so maybe the head is part of that?

[eliot]

wiki says it was 7.7L - so 129bhp/l which feels a bit keen. Didn’t tvr bs that it broke the dyno - therefore it must of produced 1000 bhp….
for about 3 seconds…

edit: actually seems to be plenty of engines producing that and higher bhp/l - so not that fanciful. But also confirms there’s nothing special about s6 heads either.

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/road/news/2021/8/the-...

Edited by eliot on Friday 7th January 20:28