S40 losing power/limp mode
Discussion
Hi guys wondering if anyone has any suggestions with my s40.
I recently bought it from a dealer as a px to clear, I paid peanuts for it so don't want to pester them too much.
Car is a 2005/6 2.0D psa engine I believe.
So when I bought it they said it had a problem with the throttle but would be fixed before I collected.
I picked the car up and it has a very occasional blip where it will shudder violently then go into limp mode.
There is no warnings on the dash whatsoever.
I took the car back to the garage who scanned it and said it had 2 codes stored, one for a glow plug relay and one for soot levels in the DPF.
They said that it's got a glow plug out which will prevent the DPF from regenerating.
They then put 4 new glow plugs in the car and said to take it for a decent run.
Well before I got as far as a decent run, literally going down the slip way it pinged into limp mode again, regardless I ran it 20-30minutes down the motorway. Pulled off switched it off and back on again which took it out of limp mode and went back down the motorway.
I'm convinced it's now had a decent run so if the problem was DPF it would've cleared, it also never showed me a dpf light so not convinced that's the problem.
Anyway it's still going into limp mode randomly, I can't find any circumstance that cause it to happen it just seems random to me.
Does anyone have any suggestions of what the problem could be?
I recently bought it from a dealer as a px to clear, I paid peanuts for it so don't want to pester them too much.
Car is a 2005/6 2.0D psa engine I believe.
So when I bought it they said it had a problem with the throttle but would be fixed before I collected.
I picked the car up and it has a very occasional blip where it will shudder violently then go into limp mode.
There is no warnings on the dash whatsoever.
I took the car back to the garage who scanned it and said it had 2 codes stored, one for a glow plug relay and one for soot levels in the DPF.
They said that it's got a glow plug out which will prevent the DPF from regenerating.
They then put 4 new glow plugs in the car and said to take it for a decent run.
Well before I got as far as a decent run, literally going down the slip way it pinged into limp mode again, regardless I ran it 20-30minutes down the motorway. Pulled off switched it off and back on again which took it out of limp mode and went back down the motorway.
I'm convinced it's now had a decent run so if the problem was DPF it would've cleared, it also never showed me a dpf light so not convinced that's the problem.
Anyway it's still going into limp mode randomly, I can't find any circumstance that cause it to happen it just seems random to me.
Does anyone have any suggestions of what the problem could be?
No messages whatsoever on the dash nor any warning lights.
It just lacks boost, and will not accelerate past 2500-2800 rpm.
If you short shift around 2000rpm it's possible to drive, just incredibly slowly and there's violent engine breaking if you lift off the throttle.
9 times out of 10 a switch off and on again will solve it and the problem doesn't always come straight back.
It's very irregular so hard to pinpoint exactly what's causing it.
Although if accelerating hard upto about 4000rpm it happens more regular but also sometimes when driving mrs daisy about town.
It just lacks boost, and will not accelerate past 2500-2800 rpm.
If you short shift around 2000rpm it's possible to drive, just incredibly slowly and there's violent engine breaking if you lift off the throttle.
9 times out of 10 a switch off and on again will solve it and the problem doesn't always come straight back.
It's very irregular so hard to pinpoint exactly what's causing it.
Although if accelerating hard upto about 4000rpm it happens more regular but also sometimes when driving mrs daisy about town.
Cakey_ said:
No messages whatsoever on the dash nor any warning lights.
It just lacks boost, and will not accelerate past 2500-2800 rpm.
If you short shift around 2000rpm it's possible to drive, just incredibly slowly and there's violent engine breaking if you lift off the throttle.
9 times out of 10 a switch off and on again will solve it and the problem doesn't always come straight back.
It's very irregular so hard to pinpoint exactly what's causing it.
Although if accelerating hard upto about 4000rpm it happens more regular but also sometimes when driving mrs daisy about town.
I just got a 2009 S40 R design but with the Ford/PSA 1.6 16v diesel which has a "wet dpf", ie it has a service item called EOLYS fluid which was part of the dealer service schedule, although the fluid is often neglected. Not sure what the 2 l uses whether it is a wet or dry DPF.It just lacks boost, and will not accelerate past 2500-2800 rpm.
If you short shift around 2000rpm it's possible to drive, just incredibly slowly and there's violent engine breaking if you lift off the throttle.
9 times out of 10 a switch off and on again will solve it and the problem doesn't always come straight back.
It's very irregular so hard to pinpoint exactly what's causing it.
Although if accelerating hard upto about 4000rpm it happens more regular but also sometimes when driving mrs daisy about town.
I got this otherwise decent S40 virtually scrap price because it was in limp mode 4,000 RPM no boost, no engine warning light despite it illuminating when the key was turned, that's verifying it's existence and not a missing or blown light bulb.
I was fortunate enough to be able to determine that mine had at least a decent amount of the fluid, which I believe just makes the EGT much hotter in order to help get regenerations done quicker for those pottering about around town. I had a DPF signal to high error. I cleared the error codes in the correct order and forced a DPF regen. It blew crap out of it like a railway locomotive for a few minutes and then it all was ok once the regen process was over. I had driveability issues with this jerking of the throttle when at steady loads and speeds which was caused by a failed MAF sensor which yet again did not cause the engine management light to illuminate. I'm starting to wonder how bad something must be for the EML to actually illuminate 😅 I do have VIDA and it is supposed to support j2534 cables but I couldn't get it to work so instead used my Autel to do everything.
So you are not alone on experiencing issues without EML being illuminated. I'm battling all the usual P1 platform issues such as the sunroof drains. I've got some serious engine mount replacement needing to happen. It's truly awful to drive with vibrations and shuddering carrying all through the vehicle, lady passengers seem to like it for some reason.
Never had a Volvo before. I got one because other disabled people recommend them for their comfortable seats. But the problem is is that I can't get in or out of the bloody thing because it's too low down. So I doubt it will be with me for long. The interior budget seemed to all go on the most exquisite steering wheel I've ever touched and a pretty decent gear lever but then the rest of the plastics are literally Kia/ Hyundai levels. I stepped out of an '09 Mercedes, the baby of the range a class and into the much bigger 09 Volvo and like I say, the budget seems to focus on what you can touch rather than look at inside. I'll give it it's dues it's a very, very sexy way to hide a Ford Focus. It had very little competition small saloon wise and though dulled a little by the size and weight, the focus platform does shine through as a decent driving experience. Goes well for a 1.6 diesel though. If it were not for the getting in and out issue. I could see myself with an S40 or V50 with a T5 or D5 with geartronic.
Thanks for the replies, I believe mine does have a wet DPF so will check the fluid levels when I get the chance.
I gave the garage £900 for my car with a full service history and a cambelt 2 years ago.
It looks tatty buy I quite like that as it means I'm not to precious about where I park it!
I think the previous owner used the rear bumper as a parking sensor and stopped when they heard a crunch 😅
I expected to hate it but there's something I quite like about it except for the fact it runs like a dog.
Full cream leather interior with heated seats is actually a pretty nice place to be for the money.
Mine also shudders sometimes violently at a steady throttle and when sat in neutral on tick over. Sometimes so much my 5yo daughter starts complaining it makes her feel sick!
I'll look into replacing the MAF and see of that helps.
I'm trying not to throw loads of money at it as cheap cars can quite quickly stop bring cheap when you replace every little thing.
I do plan to pull the CEM and give that a clean up and see if that helps as there's a lot online of those getting corrosion amd causing problems and a can of contact cleaner is pretty cheap if it helps.
I gave the garage £900 for my car with a full service history and a cambelt 2 years ago.
It looks tatty buy I quite like that as it means I'm not to precious about where I park it!
I think the previous owner used the rear bumper as a parking sensor and stopped when they heard a crunch 😅
I expected to hate it but there's something I quite like about it except for the fact it runs like a dog.
Full cream leather interior with heated seats is actually a pretty nice place to be for the money.
Mine also shudders sometimes violently at a steady throttle and when sat in neutral on tick over. Sometimes so much my 5yo daughter starts complaining it makes her feel sick!
I'll look into replacing the MAF and see of that helps.
I'm trying not to throw loads of money at it as cheap cars can quite quickly stop bring cheap when you replace every little thing.
I do plan to pull the CEM and give that a clean up and see if that helps as there's a lot online of those getting corrosion amd causing problems and a can of contact cleaner is pretty cheap if it helps.
Probably need to check the fault codes (if any) but mine does similar (2007 2.0D) and more so if you're cruising at say 60/70mph them ease off them go back on the power... it's as if there's no boost. Turn it off, back on and all is well for the foreseeable.
I've changed the boost control solenoid under the alternator and also found a split in a vacuum that runs from the anti-stutter valve on the inlet manifold down to said solenoid as it rubs on the fuel return line. I've also sat on live data and MAF wise, nothing obvious and I was getting boost out of range fault codes. Annoyingly it's improved but has done it again. Have a replacement solenoid that sits above the gearbox (it has two, both identical) so fingers crossed that finally cures it.
I've changed the boost control solenoid under the alternator and also found a split in a vacuum that runs from the anti-stutter valve on the inlet manifold down to said solenoid as it rubs on the fuel return line. I've also sat on live data and MAF wise, nothing obvious and I was getting boost out of range fault codes. Annoyingly it's improved but has done it again. Have a replacement solenoid that sits above the gearbox (it has two, both identical) so fingers crossed that finally cures it.
Davie said:
Probably need to check the fault codes (if any) but mine does similar (2007 2.0D) and more so if you're cruising at say 60/70mph them ease off them go back on the power... it's as if there's no boost. Turn it off, back on and all is well for the foreseeable.
I've changed the boost control solenoid under the alternator and also found a split in a vacuum that runs from the anti-stutter valve on the inlet manifold down to said solenoid as it rubs on the fuel return line. I've also sat on live data and MAF wise, nothing obvious and I was getting boost out of range fault codes. Annoyingly it's improved but has done it again. Have a replacement solenoid that sits above the gearbox (it has two, both identical) so fingers crossed that finally cures it.
Whilst researching the jerking I found lots of people trying many things and it working or not. Usually best to look for your fault and other owners experiences as the Ford or PSA equivalent as they are far more plentiful.I've changed the boost control solenoid under the alternator and also found a split in a vacuum that runs from the anti-stutter valve on the inlet manifold down to said solenoid as it rubs on the fuel return line. I've also sat on live data and MAF wise, nothing obvious and I was getting boost out of range fault codes. Annoyingly it's improved but has done it again. Have a replacement solenoid that sits above the gearbox (it has two, both identical) so fingers crossed that finally cures it.
A clean of my MAF improved my fault so I knew that changing it would likely solve my problems which it did. Other suggestions regarding jerking from people without MAF issue's were changing the fuel filter (engine bay end) and then carefully bleeding the system. Apparently rather prone to gumming and clogging. Injectors that were on their way out or replaced without re-coding them correctly. DMF issues too but easily isolated.
After doing my regen and maf replacement I then used a whole buttload of additives targeting the fuel system, injectors and doing an EGR spray can. If despite having enough regen fluid it got so bad to the point where a forced regen was in order. Then clearly in its last life it was not used properly so I think it needed a good blow through!
I can only assume from the sound it makes and the economy/performance that it would run smoothly if it's mountings were replaced. Given mines a pig to get into first, I'm betting on transmission mountings and the main mounting at the back of the engine because the side ones seem alright.
I kind of thought that the S40 would be like having a Skoda Octavia again which is a car I liked very much. They are similar in some ways, there's that little clip to put your parking tickets in and a face that terrifies other motorists in the rear view mirror. But actually it turned out to be the opposite, the Octavia is a car built on a premium platform that is from VW and Audi cars, whereas the Volvo is sitting on the underpinnings of a cheaper car. No more S40 or small saloon from them though to replace it.
E-bmw said:
Have you tried adjusting the gear selector cable?
Simple (if awkward) job, made a world of difference to mine.
A suggestion I'll be sure to pass on to whoever I leave it with for repair estimateSimple (if awkward) job, made a world of difference to mine.
Unfortunately due to some health problems it's very hard for me to do my own work as much as I would like
I appreciate the S40s gas strut for the bonnet as well as the trays they provide for screws and fixings. Makes doing the small jobs I can a little easier. My headlight brightness is a joke, or in reality, really dangerous! So I must do those next, yet again the fact the entire headlight unit detaches so I can clean the glass and replace the bulbs is a pretty nifty feature.
I've still got errors for the left mirror heating element, the parking sensors give a power supply too high voltage difference error and central electronic module siren error to deal with
Then finally I'm having to listen to my music on a Bluetooth FM transmitter which as you can imagine sounds like utter garbage which I endure because of how difficult or expensive it is to do anything about because of the flipping waterfall. By waterfall of course I mean the dashboard design, not the waterfall pouring into my passenger footwell from the crappy sunroof drain problems.
I'll give it it's dues though, in R design trim and in that beautiful brilliant blue pearl it's a pretty sexy motor that you feel good to look back at on the driveway. I also learned to set the electric seat memory 1 for my driving position and 2 for a getting in and out position
MOT till August then I think to the scrap yard it goes, unless the repairs are cheap enough to keep playing the bangernomics lottery!
These engines are pretty decent units, with lots of power, and last well.
But as ever, they suffer the usual 'modern diesel' gripes. It's possible for the EGR valve plunger to fall off completely, which can cause random faults, including turbo boost pressure errors. Once you have it apart, it's pretty obvious if you have this issue.
I've never had an issue with the MAF, but first time for most things.
The turbo will clog up with soot, the DPF will block, the injectors will fail (piezo injectors), but these are consistent with all the other engines on the market.
Be aware DPF blockage could well be caused by an injector issue.
But as ever, they suffer the usual 'modern diesel' gripes. It's possible for the EGR valve plunger to fall off completely, which can cause random faults, including turbo boost pressure errors. Once you have it apart, it's pretty obvious if you have this issue.
I've never had an issue with the MAF, but first time for most things.
The turbo will clog up with soot, the DPF will block, the injectors will fail (piezo injectors), but these are consistent with all the other engines on the market.
Be aware DPF blockage could well be caused by an injector issue.
I've had the garage scan the codes and only thing that came up was dpf and glow plugs.
They've replaced the glow plugs and it made no difference whatsoever.
I've done abit of reading online and it's pointing at generic MAF problems for some of the issues, it starts and quite often will fire then stall if I don't give it a blip of the throttle, it judder a lot at idle, and steady revs can be quite lurchy too.
I'll can a can of cleaner and give it a spray and see if it helps.
I stuck some red ex in it yesterday and when it's running well it seems better, the power snd torque is there most of the time, I didn't realise until then how down on power it was, but then a clogged dpf won't help that either.
Limp mode is still intermittent with no noticeable cause.
It's annoying as when it's driving how it should it's actually a nice drive, the engine although getting a bad time online drives nicely with a decent lump of torque and generally smooth.
Im kind of stumped what to do next really, as if there's no codes being stored and no warning lights either it's a bit of a lucky dip to what the problem is.
I'm also conscious that i didn't pay an awful lot for it and it's tatty so don't want to spend hundreds throwing parts at it.
They've replaced the glow plugs and it made no difference whatsoever.
I've done abit of reading online and it's pointing at generic MAF problems for some of the issues, it starts and quite often will fire then stall if I don't give it a blip of the throttle, it judder a lot at idle, and steady revs can be quite lurchy too.
I'll can a can of cleaner and give it a spray and see if it helps.
I stuck some red ex in it yesterday and when it's running well it seems better, the power snd torque is there most of the time, I didn't realise until then how down on power it was, but then a clogged dpf won't help that either.
Limp mode is still intermittent with no noticeable cause.
It's annoying as when it's driving how it should it's actually a nice drive, the engine although getting a bad time online drives nicely with a decent lump of torque and generally smooth.
Im kind of stumped what to do next really, as if there's no codes being stored and no warning lights either it's a bit of a lucky dip to what the problem is.
I'm also conscious that i didn't pay an awful lot for it and it's tatty so don't want to spend hundreds throwing parts at it.
There was a technical bulletin years ago for DPF Codes and limp mode
If i remember the sensor was going faulty due to condensation damaging the sensor.
worth a look at this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsDD2pbmL-8
If i remember the sensor was going faulty due to condensation damaging the sensor.
worth a look at this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsDD2pbmL-8
Thanks for the link, thats very intresting.
Just fell down the rabbit hole of old forum posts on Google but there was a chap somewhere suggesting he'd found a split in the rubber pipes running from the DPF to that pressure sensor.
It gives me another option of things to look at over the weekend.
I'm really hoping i can get it sorted as i quite like the car for what it is and would happily drive it for a couple of years if I can get the old girl working properly.
Just fell down the rabbit hole of old forum posts on Google but there was a chap somewhere suggesting he'd found a split in the rubber pipes running from the DPF to that pressure sensor.
It gives me another option of things to look at over the weekend.
I'm really hoping i can get it sorted as i quite like the car for what it is and would happily drive it for a couple of years if I can get the old girl working properly.
So I had an hour spare late afternoon so had a quick look over the car.
The pipes to the DPF pressure senor looked OK, I tried to pop them off but they were stuck fast and it was quite fiddly with big hands next to the engine block so thought best to leave that for another day incase I broke something in a rush as darkness was closing in.
I did notice some air bubbles in the clear fuel line and a few slightly bigger ones getting pulled through when I started it up so wonder how normal that is and if that could be part of my problem.
I also had a brief look over the boost pipes for obvious splits and noticed on the pipe that goes from the intercooler to the inlet manifold a lot of wet black oil coming from some sort of actuator or valve that fits between the pipe and the manifold.
If anyone knows what the part is it might help me figure out wether that's a problem or not.
There wasn't any electrical plugs on it but was a small vacuum hose attached but couldn't see where that was going to.
The pipes to the DPF pressure senor looked OK, I tried to pop them off but they were stuck fast and it was quite fiddly with big hands next to the engine block so thought best to leave that for another day incase I broke something in a rush as darkness was closing in.
I did notice some air bubbles in the clear fuel line and a few slightly bigger ones getting pulled through when I started it up so wonder how normal that is and if that could be part of my problem.
I also had a brief look over the boost pipes for obvious splits and noticed on the pipe that goes from the intercooler to the inlet manifold a lot of wet black oil coming from some sort of actuator or valve that fits between the pipe and the manifold.
If anyone knows what the part is it might help me figure out wether that's a problem or not.
There wasn't any electrical plugs on it but was a small vacuum hose attached but couldn't see where that was going to.
You'll be pissing in the wind with the headlights unless you replace the reflectors for new. They burn and tarnish with age which utterly kills the output and 90% of forum posts dribble on about cleaning the projector lense or fitting uprated bulbs. Pointless. Either have yours rechromed or replace them for undamage units or new, I'm sure they are "Bosch E46" but nothing to do with a BMW. I have Saab units in mine, took a bit work but the output is superb even with standard bulbs.
I had an Astra 1.7d shed that would throw an overboost code and throw it into limp if I did a long pull in a high gear, rather than using the gears:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
The EGR was absolutely grim and if you look at the pictures the intake was like a smokers artery.
I started removing it but making it loose concerned me in case it got sucked into the engine. I didn’t have the means or inclination to do it properly.
Anyway my point is the code was unrelated to the issue.
I also had luck diagnosing bmw diesel issues by unplugging stuff. Unplugging the egr / maf and testing out the car in a default mode and was good for trouble shooting
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...
The EGR was absolutely grim and if you look at the pictures the intake was like a smokers artery.
I started removing it but making it loose concerned me in case it got sucked into the engine. I didn’t have the means or inclination to do it properly.
Anyway my point is the code was unrelated to the issue.
I also had luck diagnosing bmw diesel issues by unplugging stuff. Unplugging the egr / maf and testing out the car in a default mode and was good for trouble shooting
bearman68 said:
These engines are pretty decent units, with lots of power, and last well.
But as ever, they suffer the usual 'modern diesel' gripes. It's possible for the EGR valve plunger to fall off completely, which can cause random faults, including turbo boost pressure errors. Once you have it apart, it's pretty obvious if you have this issue.
I've never had an issue with the MAF, but first time for most things.
The turbo will clog up with soot, the DPF will block, the injectors will fail (piezo injectors), but these are consistent with all the other engines on the market.
Be aware DPF blockage could well be caused by an injector issue.
I assumed that at first myself, that the Ford Duratec/PSA DV6 would probably be no more or less reliable than similar motors and the sorts of soot related issues you mention and a few others are to be expected. I've spent so long trying learn petrol engines and now I'm confronted with at least twice as many engine sensors than before and having to learn diesel related stuff (+ turbo stuff). My last diesel didn't have a DPF or anything, just a VW 1.9 with the PD injectors and the soot thankfully didn't build up in my engine, it just plopped itself down on plants, trees, people, houses etc but only in very tiny amounts, ask VW they will tell you! But as ever, they suffer the usual 'modern diesel' gripes. It's possible for the EGR valve plunger to fall off completely, which can cause random faults, including turbo boost pressure errors. Once you have it apart, it's pretty obvious if you have this issue.
I've never had an issue with the MAF, but first time for most things.
The turbo will clog up with soot, the DPF will block, the injectors will fail (piezo injectors), but these are consistent with all the other engines on the market.
Be aware DPF blockage could well be caused by an injector issue.
I'm on 132k so come MOT time it's going to the scrappie I think or if it passes ill sell it off to someone with more time and ability than me to get it up to scratch.
I do like the S40 II and my engine mount issues aside it is a nice drive, probably would have been a nice motor in it's day. I think the N/A petrol's are pretty 'meh and as lovely as the T5 and D5 are, running costs just too high. I don't know if it's just me but even today with the R bodykit and the right colour it's a pretty fetching little motor. Not flash or look at me!, but not Toyota invisible. It's kind of aggressive and muscular in some ways but simple and elegant looking in others, the V50 is also a nice looking little wagon.
Thanks Davie for the shoutout on the headlights, £140-170 each give or take, I think ill eat more carrots! In all seriousness there is a proper disassembly and restoration post on SwedeSpeed
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