Boundary ownership query.

[shep1001]

My neighbour wants to replace the fence on the boundary between our properties with a a wall, in the same position/height so he can level his garden. I don’t really have an objection to this as it’s to the side of the property down a passage with no windows in.

Now, I believe the fence belongs to me (I look at the ‘back’ of it) he believes it’s his as he has a plan that shows the boundaries of the property but I believe that’s all it shows not actual ownership/responsibility for the fence. The house is a new build on a 160 dwelling development but the builder is as much use as tits on a fish.

If he wants to spunk 6k on a wall that’s fine but I don’t want liability for it in the future. Where do we check to see who owns it and can responsibly for a boundary be reassigned if it is proved to be mine?

[anonymous-user]

Quite a few things.

Firstly, if its a new build, I imagine there will be covenants etc to prevent a wall being erected.

Secondly, on the plus side, as its a new build the deeds probably have the 'T' to show who maintains it (nb. Not necessarily the same as ownership)

Thirdly, if he wants to stick a wall up you should let him (it's his problem if he goes against restrictive covenants etc.) But you should also get him to commit to an undertaking that basically says "I'm the neighbour and this wall is my reposnsbility".

Though, in reality, if he is sticking the wall up it shouldn't need much maintenance for decades...so if he is willing to pay for its construction, I wouldn't think too deeply about it.

[Bobtherallyfan]

You say ‘down a passage’....are you sure that no pipes etc run down there....it seems the go to place for drains on new builds (as we found when we tried replacing a fence).

[shep1001]

01WE01 said:

Quite a few things.

Firstly, if its a new build, I imagine there will be covenants etc to prevent a wall being erected.

Secondly, on the plus side, as its a new build the deeds probably have the 'T' to show who maintains it (nb. Not necessarily the same as ownership)

Thirdly, if he wants to stick a wall up you should let him (it's his problem if he goes against restrictive covenants etc.) But you should also get him to commit to an undertaking that basically says "I'm the neighbour and this wall is my reposnsbility".

Though, in reality, if he is sticking the wall up it shouldn't need much maintenance for decades...so if he is willing to pay for its construction, I wouldn't think too deeply about it.

Thanks, there is no covenants covering boundaries that don’t border a properties external boundary to a public space.

He won’t do a st job on the wall so it should as you say last for years, he has remodelled his house as he decided he didn’t like the way Wimpey set it out, so I have seen the extent of his building firms capabilities.

I will have to look for the title deeds, I don’t remember getting a set of these it was 3 years ago when we got the hose new.

[shep1001]

Bobtherallyfan said:

You say ‘down a passage’....are you sure that no pipes etc run down there....it seems the go to place for drains on new builds (as we found when we tried replacing a fence).

No my foul drains run back to front out of the property my surface water drains for the down pipes off the roof are on the front of the property.

The only thing he will find digging there is cat st that I missed when I do the weekly de-turdification duties.

[shep1001]

shep1001 said:

Bobtherallyfan said:

You say ‘down a passage’....are you sure that no pipes etc run down there....it seems the go to place for drains on new builds (as we found when we tried replacing a fence).

They are detached houses perpendicular to each other, the end of his garden is parallel to the side of our house.

My foul drains run back to front out of the property my surface water drains for the down pipes off the roof are on the front sides of the property.

The only thing he will find digging there is cat st that I missed when I do the weekly de-turdification duties.

[donkmeister]

Once you've established it's your fence, just get him to build it on his side of the boundary

I've got a silly situation where i came home to find the crappy wall I'd been planning to knock down and replace with a hedge or flower bed was now retaining my neighbour's new raised and paved driveway. We've now got a crappy wall neither of us like looking at, that I can't remove without replacing. If I replaced it, I'd really need to build a retaining wall encroaching into my garden at the one place that it would be a problem. As it is, eventually I'll wake up after heavy rain to find his car parked in my front garden and the problem will have solved itself

Now if he'd explained his plans before I'd have suggested he build a retaining wall to support the drive and we wouldn't be in this situation.

Despite that minor foible he's a brilliant neighbour and a good friend, we're not the petty type but I can imagine others might find it a strain.

[jondude]

shep1001 said:

If he wants to spunk 6k on a wall that’s fine but I don’t want liability for it in the future. Where do we check to see who owns it and can responsibly for a boundary be reassigned if it is proved to be mine?

I think the only way you can do this argument free is erect a fence on your side to the boundary line, then tell him he has to build the wall the other side.

That way it is 100% on his land and therefore his issue re maintenance.

[Hol]

Three things spring to mind, based on the longer term aspects/

1. If the wall needs piers in regular intervals, then ask for these to be on his side of the boundary, so you have nice uninterrupted wall.
2. Ask, to see the rainwater drainage plans. If he is plonking a large patio the other side with the run off away from his house and your land is now lower, you will get his rainwater, if he isn't putting in soakaways.
3. Depending how high he is raising his garden, ask him to backfill the lower wall with concrete. That will greatly reduce the ability for any trapped waater to seep through a poorly grouted joint.

[mattwh]

If (as you say) you look at the back of it then I would suggest that your neighbour owns it. If I paid for a fence (because I owned it) I certainly would not want the 'better' view of it to be appreciated by someone else....

[Oceanrower]

You would, generally, be wrong.

The rails are on the back of the fence. These are generally on the inside of the property, or the owners side if it is a dividing fence.

To put the 'good' side on the inside would, essentially, leave a ladder on the outside for ne'er do wells to climb...

[mattwh]

Oceanrower said:

You would, generally, be wrong.

The rails are on the back of the fence. These are generally on the inside of the property, or the owners side if it is a dividing fence.

To put the 'good' side on the inside would, essentially, leave a ladder on the outside for ne'er do wells to climb...

so you spend good money on a fence to look crappy so potentially scoates can't climb it ? bks - you spend money on a fence for it to look appealing as it can be. your statement is false Pondrower - you clearly own no boundaries.

[car2021]

Look at the plans that came with the deeds. They will show a 'T' sign and if the 'T' is in your garden it is your fence. If there are two T's that are joined up at the bottom and make the T's look like an H, then it's a joint fence.

[Chrisgr31]

mattwh said:

If (as you say) you look at the back of it then I would suggest that your neighbour owns it. If I paid for a fence (because I owned it) I certainly would not want the 'better' view of it to be appreciated by someone else....

I really dont get this argument about the back or front of a fence. I dont care if I look at the back or the front, fences fade and mellow, they get painted etc. In fact on that point if its a standard panel fence and there is any danger of the neighbour painting it you are a lot better off having the back of it. Otherwise the paint because the slats overlap at the top with one behind the other on the back the paint then runs down the front of the next slat,. So all of a sudden the front becomes streaky.

[Oceanrower]

mattwh said:

Oceanrower said:

You would, generally, be wrong.

The rails are on the back of the fence. These are generally on the inside of the property, or the owners side if it is a dividing fence.

To put the 'good' side on the inside would, essentially, leave a ladder on the outside for ne'er do wells to climb...

so you spend good money on a fence to look crappy so potentially scoates can't climb it ? bks - you spend money on a fence for it to look appealing as it can be. your statement is false Pondrower - you clearly own no boundaries.

Whatever. I have previously, however, spent about 20 years owning a company that puts them up...

[NGee]

mattwh said:

Oceanrower said:

You would, generally, be wrong.

The rails are on the back of the fence. These are generally on the inside of the property, or the owners side if it is a dividing fence.

To put the 'good' side on the inside would, essentially, leave a ladder on the outside for ne'er do wells to climb...

so you spend good money on a fence to look crappy so potentially scoates can't climb it ? bks - you spend money on a fence for it to look appealing as it can be. your statement is false Pondrower - you clearly own no boundaries.

Matt, you need to get out more. Just go for a walk down the street, any street, your street, and you see that all the wooden fences have the 'smooth' side facing the road and the supports and posts on the inside. It is the way fences are done!

[Roofless Toothless]

Actually, it is a matter of common courtesy.

[anonymous-user]

mattwh said:

...you clearly own no boundaries.

Can we please add this to "you own no car of note" on the list of "knobbish things said in S,P&L"?

[Chris32345]

Oceanrower said:

You would, generally, be wrong.

The rails are on the back of the fence. These are generally on the inside of the property, or the owners side if it is a dividing fence.

To put the 'good' side on the inside would, essentially, leave a ladder on the outside for ne'er do wells to climb...

Are you for real?
Have you seen no fence ever?

[mattwh]

Breadvan72 said:

Can we please add this to "you own no car of note" on the list of "knobbish things said in S,P&L"?

Breadvan - I have complete respect for everything you bring to this forum but this is the exception that proves the rule. Internal fences within a property, as in dividing fences, are inward facing - i.e. posts outside. (source 32 years of fitting them.) To place the internal boundary fence posts facing inwards is just wrong - or at least doing the (paying) customer a disservice.